Players losing it all and quitting - sure, their fault but not good for the game.

[FluorescentBlack]

The psudo permadeath mechanics are a pivotol factor in me playing this game and promoting it to my friends. One friend who has hardly played any games in the last 5 years is very happy. We talk about how it is simmilar to some NwN persistant servers in years past. Old school X com? Yes please! the penalties are very minor here anyway. Only 1 20th of your ships value. Surely for all the people quitting because they lost everything there are those who will come and play because of just that. We then get the community we want instead of catering to those we do not. As mentioned people who will leave and stay have little to do with things like the insurance mechanic. I am tired of games being played on the forums as much as they are. At the time I purchased this game for its single payment I was excited that Frontier was going old school of buy it and get it (although I will not touch on the online only thing) and I read where they want to make their game and I like that there is no "I subscribe so I am entitled to whine" factor.

You go FD! make your game and I will play it.

If anything I would vote for a check insurance box on the pre flight checklist. You would have to look to right panel and go to the appropriate tab. Put it as the first thing on the checklist as opposed to the last.

 

[Zvanya]

Sir, you are so fired up and combative that you can't even be bothered to read before attacking someone. Where exactly did I suggest a particular compromise that you are so adamantly against? I think I'll just ignore you from now on.

He is definitely on a roll. He "despises" my way of thinking, although I doubt he knows very much about how I think, except that I disagree with him. I think you have the right of it. Just leave him be.

 

[Kars Vandor]

similar to some NwN persistant servers in years past.

Built one for a year a 75mb save file with 150 areas. Had a staff of myself and 6 Co DMs for 36 players. Rocking. Permadeath / Roleplay.

Ran it as part of my 3.5 game. That thing rran for three years great stories.

I love it here, it's just the right amount of challenge for me, plus lore, plus figuring things out, plus exploring.

 

[Mohrgan]

I think that the vast majority of people would agree that if you get killed you are punished and if you are killed without having the rebuy you are heavily punished - that is a core game mechanic.

However if you are discussing players being dumped back to square 1 for a single instance of being killed without insurance I think it is a far smaller proportion of players who would class that as a fundamental component of the game. I would class a core mechanic as one where if it was changed it could directly affect other user's enjoyment of the game. Slightly easing the current death penalties would not do this.

I'm a bit torn on this. Once you are aware of the insurance system it is utterly straightforward to avoid going bust. Simply always make sure that you have the rebuy. If you go below the rebuy downgrade your ship and work your way back up again. If you don't want to have to downgrade, make sure that you don't upgrade until you have significant cash reserves and if these start getting depleted move away from high risk activities (fighting, carrying high value cargo) and build them up with some lower risk trading. All it requires is a tiny bit of discipline and patience. I have no sympathy for people who are aware of how punitive the system is but still don't exercise this basic discipline.

However at the same time we have to be realistic about human nature. People will always take risks and believe that they can beat the odds. People get lazy. People play when they come home from the pub after one too many beers. And I agree that a grown up game should punish them for this. However the current severity of punishment is such that when it happens all but the most dedicated of players will just quit and move on to another game. I would suggest that Elite is already a fairly niche product at present. Given the size of the play area it is really important if we want long term player interaction that people are not unnecessarily driven away. The point has been made earlier but is worth repeating. Experienced and more mature players do not need the younger, more casual gamers in order to enjoy the game and so in the short term if people go it makes no difference to you. But I feel pretty confident in stating that in order to continue improving and supporting the game FD are going to need enough casual players to make things financially viable. If the game is made overly punitive to these players and they leave potentially we could be left with no game at all (or at least a game that has fallen far short of the potential that it currently has if the developers can continue working on it).

No I think we should be solely concerned with how the Galaxy should work, not how segments of the community wish would work. One of the 1st statements the games makes about itself is "Take control of your own starship in a cut-throat galaxy. Start with a small starship and a few credits, and do whatever it takes to get the skill, knowledge, wealth and power to stand among the ranks of the Elite." Take control, that's what we should do. Be responsible for ourselves.

 

[Ian Skippy]

However at the same time we have to be realistic about human nature. People will always take risks and believe that they can beat the odds. People get lazy. People play when they come home from the pub after one too many beers. And I agree that a grown up game should punish them for this. However the current severity of punishment is such that when it happens all but the most dedicated of players will just quit and move on to another game. I would suggest that Elite is already a fairly niche product at present.

Truth be told, I rarely, if ever, play ED completely sober. To me this is a game, not a job, so I get to unwind if others don't mind. Yes, this makes me make more mistakes than I otherwise would have made. Yet I haven't moved on. I would not presume that other people are more-feeble minded, and I assume other people are okay with losing at a computer game after have a few beers with some friends. And just my humble opinion, but if you someone habitually takes chances with things they care a great deal about while being intoxicated I suspect losing a T6 in ED is going to be the least of their problems before too long....

 

[Ideas Man]

Totally agree. More transparency (pop up/listing prior to purchase would be great) seems like a great place to resolve some of the issues. Keep the mechanic itself but make it's function and cost more observable prior to the player making any big decisions (buying a ship they can't afford to insure/leaving dock without insurance), and have the ramifications for dying without insurance clearly spelled out.

That'd keep me happy, there are people with other play styles that could be maybe helped out in different ways but for me that'd work perfectly.

 

[Zeeman]

Funny, that last bit is kinda like what I've been saying. Why do you hardcore fanatics get to impose YOUR death penalty on those of us who like to leave work on the jobsite?

You've made some good points about the rares though... Maybe I'll do some more rares trading. At least give myself a bit more of a safety net. I suppose I'm not the worst off; in a Cobra my re-buy looks to be only about 350k or so once I've gotten everything up to Type A... and they've "balanced" all the ships other than the cobra so hard that none of them look like they're any fun except the Python, and THAT won't be any fun once they finish "balancing" it to death either, so I'll probably just mostly fly the Cobra forever. Maybe buy an Asp as a sometimes playtoy to get me to those far-off places a little faster when I have the creds to spare.

Shoot, you probably DO make more real-life cash than I do. I'm a blue collar grunt. A construction worker in a place where we're not well-paid at all. I drive a water truck and mix dirt. Not minimum wage, but not that much better either.

I think I need to go talk about "balancing" the python somewhere else now. God I hope they at least put in ONE larger ship that's worth flying and leave it that way. I need somewhere to GO from here!!

I have to say, I totally agree with what you are saying about "balancing".

The word "balance" is starting to sound to me like the word "enhancements", as it is used by the CEO of a certain airline I happen to have a frequent flyer membership with, that was in a merger recently located in a united continental country...

Every time they cut something, or make something worse, they call it an "enhancement"... Seeing as it's a pretty average airline at best, and I need to fly them to be able to get to San Francisco for work related trips, it's getting old real fast.

Back on topic - I'm totally in for the suggestion of more transparency - the "This ship costs X to replace if you blow it up" nice and visible when you buy it... The more information to help players make good choices, the better.

Z...

 

[daan2002]

Please. I'm tired of you two.

back at ya and all you friends that want FD to hold your hand

 

[Ian Skippy]

Yeah. It's cheap junk that's chump change to buy and chumpier change to re-buy. Have fun paying the re-buy on your Viper if you've upgraded it very far. God help you if you ever take an Anaconda to PvP.

It's all class A, and I woulnd't mind because I don't fly without insurance. I don't habitually die, FYI, I kinda have an aversion to it. I don't really go out of my way to look for pvp, but I'm currently at W14:1L, and the loss was purely my own fault. I won't take a condie to pvp voluntarily btw, it is a massive tradeship armed enough to go solo through dangerous systems, nothing more. There currently is no high-end combat ship, as I am sure you know. Just wait for FD to finish the roster, anyone who brings a condie or python to a conflict zone is as crazy as someone who drags their T9 through USSs.

 

[QziQza]

im pretty sure the game wont miss any of those who feel they dont really need to pay attention, or learn any basic rules, mechanics or common sense. there are a few things that really make this game stand out, one of them is the how accountable we are for our own actions.. space is cold, dark and dangerous, we can learn, adapt and rise to the challenge, or we can let ourselves fail, either way, its all on us!! why should exceptions be made for anyone?

 

[Armour]

Never mind insurance, when do we start paying taxes? How are the factions funding their activities? I would think that the landlubbers would cry foul if spacers don't pay their fair share of the upkeep for these stations, outposts, cargo canisters, nav beacons, security, etc. I'd like to experience life as someone on the run from IRS (Imperial Revenue Service) agents, like a starbound Wesley Snipes.

 

[Ideas Man]

No matter what your point of view on any given subject is about a game the 'You won't be missed goodbye' attitude stinks and has never benefited a game in any way shape or form and I truly wish people that say it on here would stop.

 

[Armour]

No matter what your point of view on any given subject is about a game the 'You won't be missed goodbye' attitude stinks and has never benefited a game in any way shape or form and I truly wish people that say it on here would stop.

[JOKE]The words of someone who is, I wager, rarely missed.[/JOKE]

 

[Ideas Man]

[JOKE]The words of someone who is, I wager, rarely missed.[/JOKE]

You'll be sorry when I am gone!!!!

 

[Zvanya]

You know what? I have to take back a lot of what I've said here.

I've forgotten that you can pick and choose what you re-buy and what you don't. That adds a whole other layer that I had, I swear, forgotten about.

So I'm really sorry for the stupid stuff I said. Yes, I can live with the system the way it is, and if I die without my full re-buy fund I can knock my shield generator back a level or two. I fly well enough to fight with it one grade lower.

That's nice.

 

[Sammy5IsAlive]

No I think we should be solely concerned with how the Galaxy should work, not how segments of the community wish would work.

My emphasis.

Regarding this particular issue, how is players being returned to the very beginning an inherent part/fundamental principle of 'how the Galaxy works'? If a less extreme punishment was put in place for players dying without insurance, how would this affect your game? I don't think it would lessen any sense of risk you have whilst playing as I assume you always have your rebuy in place. It wouldn't mean that you get griefed or player-killed more often as the people doing this by their very nature die frequently and so will either be flying Sidewinders already or are already being disciplined in staying above their rebuy amount.

There are certain principles that are clearly fundamental. This is not one of them. As such your statement of how the Galaxy 'should' work is just your opinion. At present, it happens to fit with the way things actually work at the moment. If the developers made the decision to change this, would you just go along with it or would you become on of the people calling for the game to work the way you want it to, to the exclusion of all other views?

 

[Ideas Man]

Just want to drop my 2 cents here. I'm 58 now, slowly feeling the first signs of senility. But I'm playing the game in a not quite standard way that I would describe as 'explorer with spikes, as in passive bounty hunting aka bounty "fishing" (being my own bait)' which you can imagine is not always quite risk free and I'm always playing in open. Since release I've died exactly 2 times but for more than 4 weeks I'm in involuntary semi-iron-man mode while playing 4-6 hours a day.

Am I dreaming or does this ridiculous thread actually exist? Is this really the new generation of gamer talking here?
Shame on you!

You play it one way others play it differently, it's about middle ground and acceptance but fundamentally it's about keeping two opposing sides happy, which can be tough.

 

[Zvanya]

Am I dreaming or does this ridiculous thread actually exist? Is this really the new generation of gamer talking here?
Shame on you!

Yes. This is the age of entitlement, in which nothing bad can happen to you, no matter how hard you try.

 

[Xntryk]

Baa i've gone back to 0 3 times...finally learned my lesson... no flight without insurance $.....those who gamble and lose and quit,..they were not staying around anyway.

 

[Antmax]

Ultimately a game is supposed to be fun. Losing everything isn't fun if you spent 100's of hours working a job online in a game. There is a lose it all game mode coming along in the future called iron man where you only have one life and no respawns.

Save the macho nonsense till that comes out and restart the game as often as you like.