Players losing it all and quitting - sure, their fault but not good for the game.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Tried it. You try it and tell me it doesn't make you tear your hair out.

See that is the balance right there. I think the current death penalties are overly punitive for those that are unaware of them.

But you know full well how the system works. Given that you will only be dropping down one ship, earning the 5% rebuy + 10% loss on sale should still be straightforward and take no more than an evening or two's play at which point you can buy your previous ship back. If you have made the mistake of letting your cash reserve get too low then you should expect to take some form of punishment.

 

[anikaiful]

Risk free isn't something I have seen people mention in this thread, could you quote some for me please as I too disagree with that

Directly mentioned? No one. But that's the undercurrent I gather from most who most vehemently argument against the current system.

 

[Mohrgan]

OK, so what is your stance going to be when Frontier make PVP deaths have no insurance / buy back costs at all?

A hypothetical scenario for sure but I have seen many many game companies make much much bigger changes over the years.

I would be disappointed philosophically speaking, but it would roll right off my back. I am desperate for FD not to fall into the "Balance for PvP" trap. They should design the galaxy aside from any factions interest. The Galaxy should just be, as I am want to say; The Galaxy Doesn't Care. The Dev's owe much to the Backers and all (I missed that boat, so this is not self interest here) the discussions and interactions with those core fans created the game we all play. Falling to their knees for the new comers would be a huge mistake. FD should stick to their guns, and stay the course.

 

[Ideas Man]

I don't think its a problem. Ninja gaiden and dark souls were brutal games and I assume some people stopped playing them because of the difficulty.

We've been told we can't look at other games or use wishful thinking though so this is awkward

 

[Zeeman]

Its okay to make mistakes, its just important you learn from them.

You need to make pretty long chain of mistakes before you land back in a sidewinder.

I splatted my fully loaded with rares 9m cr Cobra into a station wall twice last night. Once when one of the cats jumped up on the joystick (it sits on kind of a panel attached to my chair, which the cat's use to perch on, often when I'm playing, annoyingly...), and managed to make me both pitch and boost at the same time just as I was entering the letterbox, and once because I screwed up a super fast entry because I failed to note the T9 leaving the station whilst I was trying to get in without being scanned. There *was* enough space to squeeze past, I just did not do it right.

Net effect, I came out of my 4hrs games time with 200K cr than I started with, that's after about 2m cr in losses from the screw ups...

If you have a buffer, it is pretty hard to go back to a Sidey, as you say. I could do that every day and still be 200k cr up at the end of each session.

Z...

 

[Ian Skippy]

Risk free isn't something I have seen people mention in this thread, could you quote some for me please as I too disagree with that

What else do you call it? You have two options currently:

1) work X hours to get ship Y without money left for insurance, risking losing the ship.
2) work X+1 hours to get ship Y with money for insurance, don't risk losing the ship.

Now people want a third option:
3) Work X hours to get ship Y without money for insurance, don't risk losing the ship.

Something about cookies, owning and eating them. We are in page 31 and so far noone has been able to explain why it is bad to have a CHOICE as to how much risk you run, other then "I don't not want to be able to make the wrong choice". Nobody EVER has to risk ANYTHING. How much simpler do you want it? Again: to each his own. For all I care FD adds a godmode switch into solo mode. Allow people to type in IDDQD, IDKFA and what not. I. Don't. Care. But please, stop pretending the game forces you to risk anything. It does not, in any way, ever, at all. You have a choice. Your choice has consequences. You don't like the consequences? Guess who you should blame...

By all that is holy: what has come of us when the very idea that our own choices somehow have consequences is considered to be brutally unfair? If I were an alien monitoring this thread I'd just shake my head and move on to another, slightly less pathetic, form of life.

 

[Ideas Man]

Directly mentioned? No one. But that's the undercurrent I gather from most who most vehemently argument against the current system.

OK thanks.

 

[Tempered]

This isn't a single-player system. I have NEVER seen this system in a singleplayer OR multiplayer game, so neither side really has a leg to stand on blaming the other.

You have never lost your "stuff" in a single player game? Really?
It has nothing to do with blaming anyone. It has to do with what is a good compromise for their entire fan base. Currently the insurance system seems to be unworkable for the pvp crowd in particular, so you either alienate them and say too bad, or you come up with a solution that everyone can live with.

 

[Ideas Man]

What else do you call it? You have two options currently:

1) work X hours to get ship Y without money left for insurance, risking losing the ship.
2) work X+1 hours to get ship Y with money for insurance, don't risk losing the ship.

Now people want a third option:
3) Work X hours to get ship Y without money for insurance, don't risk losing the ship.

Something about cookies, owning and eating them. We are in page 31 and so far noone has been able to explain why it is bad to have a CHOICE as to how much risk you run, other then "I don't not want to be able to make the wrong choice". Nobody EVER has to risk ANYTHING. How much simpler do you want it? Again: to each his own. For all I care FD adds a godmode switch into solo mode. Allow people to type in IDDQD, IDKFA and what not. I. Don't. Care. But please, stop pretending the game forces you to risk anything. It does not, in any way, ever, at all. You have a choice. Your choice has consequences. You don't like the consequences? Guess who you should blame...

By all that is holy: what has come of us when the very idea that our own choices somehow have consequences is considered to be brutally unfair? If I were an alien monitoring this thread I'd just shake my head and move on to another, slightly less pathetic, form of life.

I think you've misread me somewhere along the line

 

[Mohrgan]

Great. Enjoy a multiplayer universe full of Eagles and Sidewinders, where that's all the "challenge" you'll ever face.

Or better yet, quit this game and go back to work, since you're such a masochist. What are you even doing in the world of gaming? You want this kind of stress? Get back to real life.

What ever. I don;t stress over pixels. When I have enough credits to allow me to afford a night of dying in my Cobra, that's what I'll do. I can make that choice. Easy Peasy.

 

[Sc00py]

Directly mentioned? No one. But that's the undercurrent I gather from most who most vehemently argument against the current system.

the riskier u make the game the less cost a rebuy should be
if the game was insanely hard u would certainly die a lot meaning u would go broke in no time in this system
i have played for 30 hours nonstop without dying , then this system makes sense

maybe u see now where its getting at: more risk not less= more dying not less

 

[Ideas Man]

You have never lost your "stuff" in a single player game? Really?
It has nothing to do with blaming anyone. It has to do with what is a good compromise for their entire fan base. Currently the insurance system seems to be unworkable for the pvp crowd in particular, so you either alienate them and say too bad, or you come up with a solution that everyone can live with.

Can't rep you but would if I could.
I don't even PVP much but throwing them a bone isn't a bad idea at all as in my experience they can form a very loyal part of a games fanbase given half a chance.

 

[Lovecraft]

Just because it isn't a problem for you doesn't mean it's not a problem for me. I shouldn't have to be stuck with a game that caters to your masochism. And yes, I am stuck. I paid for it. I'm stuck with either playing the game however they make it, or accepting that I flushed that money down the toilet.

Naturally I'm not all that willing to do that.

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I could too, if I was an unemployed slacker who could spend 16 hours a day playing this. Sadly I have a job. I earn maybe 200k cr a day except on weekends.

Why on earth don't you just keep money for insurance? What is the problem here?

 

[Zeeman]

Just because it isn't a problem for you doesn't mean it's not a problem for me. I shouldn't have to be stuck with a game that caters to your masochism. And yes, I am stuck. I paid for it. I'm stuck with either playing the game however they make it, or accepting that I flushed that money down the toilet.

Naturally I'm not all that willing to do that.

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I could too, if I was an unemployed slacker who could spend 16 hours a day playing this. Sadly I have a job. I earn maybe 200k cr a day except on weekends.

Fair enough, though I usually play 2-3hrs a night, I have a business I run, so hardly unemployed. I often work 12-14hr days, and E: D is my "cool down" before bed. You may have kids/wife etc, which drastically affects play time, you may be fortunate enough to not have cats that jump on your control platform...

It's more a matter of your play style, mixing rares runs, exploration and bounty hunting is fun enough to keep the game interesting, and profitable enough that I actually earn 1-2m cr in most 2hr stints (I normally don't crash my ship).

 

[SE-Apocalypse]

Just because it isn't a problem for you doesn't mean it's not a problem for me. I shouldn't have to be stuck with a game that caters to your masochism. And yes, I am stuck. I paid for it. I'm stuck with either playing the game however they make it, or accepting that I flushed that money down the toilet.

Naturally I'm not all that willing to do that.

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I could too, if I was an unemployed slacker who could spend 16 hours a day playing this. Sadly I have a job. I earn maybe 200k cr a day except on weekends.

Masochism? Dude, just keep the credits for your insurance, is that really so damn hurting to you? 200k a day are 7.2 Million credits since release. As you are obviously not trading with that kind of income you are done with all useful ship upgrades for your viper and more or less done if you are an explorer, exploration asp is rather cheap in its basic fitting. (And a 2.5 million adder comes already with 30 LY jump-range and does the job more or less just as fine as an Asp, another month and you should be ready for an optimal range (37LY) Asp long-range explorer too, it just 14 millions.

 

[Mohrgan]

Just because it isn't a problem for you doesn't mean it's not a problem for me. I shouldn't have to be stuck with a game that caters to your masochism. And yes, I am stuck. I paid for it. I'm stuck with either playing the game however they make it, or accepting that I flushed that money down the toilet.

Naturally I'm not all that willing to do that.

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I could too, if I was an unemployed slacker who could spend 16 hours a day playing this. Sadly I have a job. I earn maybe 200k cr a day except on weekends.

Assumptions, and bile is all you have. The game came as it is. You knew what you were getting into. The Galaxy Doesn't Care, nor should FD. Do you due diligence before you get "Stuck" with a product. Cars can't fly, you wouldn't buy one and then demand that it should. That's what we have here. You joined the game, and now you fell entitled to change the rules. I can't see it working like that.

 

[Ideas Man]

In game design a comma is OK, a full stop is never OK, you have to design around that, a dead end is a bad idea.

FD are clever enough to do it and I hope they will, it's such a potentially small thing that could potentially cause a hell of a lot of people to say 'game sux bro' to their friends instead of recommending it which would be a crying shame.

 

[Zeeman]

the riskier u make the game the less cost a rebuy should be
if the game was insanely hard u would certainly die a lot meaning u would go broke in no time in this system
i have played for 30 hours nonstop without dying , then this system makes sense

maybe u see now where its getting at: more risk not less= more dying not less

I normally go weeks on end without dying, and I'm a high risk player. I play open, I *always* boost into stations, as avoiding the scan is my way of keeping myself capable of smuggling illegal goods and carry out those recovery missions. I also bounty hunt a lot in extraction zones with dense asteroid fields - because it's fun!!! It's not hard to stay alive, you either need to play within your limits, or spend the time at the edge, and accept that there will be losses.

Luckily, I had time in Beta to get the hang of it, I know not everyone does, and plenty of folk were here for Alpha and have way more hours than I do. Even if I started yesterday, though, I'd still do it all the same, and be losing a heap of Sidewinders, then Eagles, then Cobras whilst learning to get the most out of the ships.

I expect a bit of a learning curve when I finally get an Asp, probably lose a heap of those boosting into station whilst trying to avoid scans...

How many F1 or Moto GP racers do you know that never crashed?



Z...

 

[Ideas Man]

Assumptions, and bile is all you have. The game came as it is. You knew what you were getting into. The Galaxy Doesn't Care, nor should FD. Do you due diligence before you get "Stuck" with a product. Cars can't fly, you wouldn't buy one and then demand that it should. That's what we have here. You joined the game, and now you fell entitled to change the rules. I can't see it working like that.

It can get really confusing on here, we are constantly told the game isn't finished and that things will change but at the same time we are told "The game came as it is. You knew what you were getting into. The Galaxy Doesn't Care, nor should FD." I personally hope that the former is true and that the game can and will change as more opinions and feedback is given rather than stubbornly stick to its guns and potentially suffer for it.

 

[daan2002]

I see it as their own fault and don't want to see any hand holding for being stupid.

Everyone knows the risks when they leave the station, I always make sure I can rebuy my ship at least 10 times over after cargo is bought before I leave the station. This way I have enough for fuel, repairs and rearm of weapons, as well as some new ships if I get blown up.

indeed this^^^^^ when i got my IC i new flying it with out insurance would be risky hear 4 days later because i do get cocky and bite off more than i can chew and i also play in PG