Hmm....Elite:Safety?? Just sounds weird.
Players losing it all and quitting - sure, their fault but not good for the game.
- Thread starter CrazyH0rse
- Start date
i wasnt judging.. also i wrote this on the previous page -
as to the unfortunate accident with the cat.. really, thats hardly the games fault now is it? although that is a good example of why the system should stay as is.. there is no way to account for every possible event.. it may be a simple, kinda tough system, but its robust and impartial.
TBH, I dont have a problem with the fact that you can very well loose everything. My problem right now is that the game it's not particularly fun or engaging to earn it in the first place.
I think the problem that makes people quit is the HUUUGE progression gaps between upgrades and ships, and how grindy it is to earn them. The pace of traveling, though it does do a good job of representing the scale of everything makes the game extremely slow. Many people pointed this out very early on but naturally were attacked and called "lazy" or "ADD" by other fans, but (at least as a bounty hunter) the fact of the matter is you spend 5-10 minutes of doing practically nothing just to get to the action (frequently getting interrupted in the process with whats more of a hassle than a real threat), then it's wildly inconsistent when you do get there.
So for many people, grinding up the creds to get anywhere isnt exactly an enjoyable experience to begin with, and with everything more than a cobra taking dozens of hours to get I'm not surprised people would rather just stop playing rather than have to go through the grind all over again. FD decided to go for the "realistic" experience, which is cool but ultimately makes space the boring, slow and desolate place that it really is, rather than be a place that captures the imagination that can always keep the player engaged in whatever theyre doing. As a space trading sim, that's really quite fine but it really doesnt hit the spot for much else.
Fortunately for those people there's another game in the works and fingers crossed that it turns out great, but to each their own. Some people will genuinely enjoy the slow paced romp across the universe, but I suspect those are the minority. Either way, people really need to stop slamming on other's who dont enjoy ED's style. It's not like your any better or theyre any less for it, and there's pretty good reason to be otherwise unsatisfied with the overall experience, so if you enjoy it, great and be happy with it. But for the rest it's still a problem that is slowly killing the game as fewer and fewer continue to play...
Me personally, my solution to the problem would be to make the game more fun and engaging with out changing any of the consequences for failure. TBH, I would much rather see a more dynamic and alive universe, with considerably cheaper ships and components making them much easier to buy, then either remove insurance or have it only valued at like 50% of the ships value. It would make losing a ship much more consequential, but you wouldnt feel like you were set back to the stone age when it happened. More people would also be inclined to own multiple ships too.
I think the problem that makes people quit is the HUUUGE progression gaps between upgrades and ships, and how grindy it is to earn them. The pace of traveling, though it does do a good job of representing the scale of everything makes the game extremely slow. Many people pointed this out very early on but naturally were attacked and called "lazy" or "ADD" by other fans, but (at least as a bounty hunter) the fact of the matter is you spend 5-10 minutes of doing practically nothing just to get to the action (frequently getting interrupted in the process with whats more of a hassle than a real threat), then it's wildly inconsistent when you do get there.
So for many people, grinding up the creds to get anywhere isnt exactly an enjoyable experience to begin with, and with everything more than a cobra taking dozens of hours to get I'm not surprised people would rather just stop playing rather than have to go through the grind all over again. FD decided to go for the "realistic" experience, which is cool but ultimately makes space the boring, slow and desolate place that it really is, rather than be a place that captures the imagination that can always keep the player engaged in whatever theyre doing. As a space trading sim, that's really quite fine but it really doesnt hit the spot for much else.
Fortunately for those people there's another game in the works and fingers crossed that it turns out great, but to each their own. Some people will genuinely enjoy the slow paced romp across the universe, but I suspect those are the minority. Either way, people really need to stop slamming on other's who dont enjoy ED's style. It's not like your any better or theyre any less for it, and there's pretty good reason to be otherwise unsatisfied with the overall experience, so if you enjoy it, great and be happy with it. But for the rest it's still a problem that is slowly killing the game as fewer and fewer continue to play...
Me personally, my solution to the problem would be to make the game more fun and engaging with out changing any of the consequences for failure. TBH, I would much rather see a more dynamic and alive universe, with considerably cheaper ships and components making them much easier to buy, then either remove insurance or have it only valued at like 50% of the ships value. It would make losing a ship much more consequential, but you wouldnt feel like you were set back to the stone age when it happened. More people would also be inclined to own multiple ships too.
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We disagree on what is a fundamental mechanic. That's what we are discussing. Plus I'm carrying the 'Slippery Slope' banner. Changing something so basic as the death mechanic because people complain would open thru flood gates.
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I want FD to create the galaxy they want. If it changes I won't quit or complain too much, but ot would go against thru whole design philosophy I read so far. That's my concern, keeping the spirit of the game intact. Not thinking the death mechanic is a core principle is just plain self serving.
OK, so i've just read the first 19 pages of this thread (more fool me, but thats my fault). My take on this is a bit of a mix..
I agree that there should be a warning if your cash balance drops below your insurance cost (regardless of wether it is commod purchase, ship purchase, mod purchase etc.). If you are doing this, then doing it as part of the pre-flight checks is the place to do it. You HAVE to do these at least once - it is then your choice to not do them again. The argument about paying insurance after the accident.. difficult, but you still have the choice to pay the excess or take bankruptcy, or, if none of you options are palatable, you could always do a clear save! I have a number of 'issues' with the game, even after starying from alpha, but the game is evolving. DB always said that the game would evolve and expand. Anyone who quits (or claims to) after a number of hours under 3 figures is IMHO an instant gratification player who should go back to candy crap saga or whatever it is called.
Yes, its an MMO, but not in the traditional sense (i.e. what anyone expects given the hype behind MMOs in the last 15/20 years). Anyone here older than 30m remember MUDs? the first MMOs, not not in the sense MMOs are talked about nowadays?
I think that FD have done a brilliant job on ED, and I know people who never played the original Elite game (on anything, BBC, Spectrum, C64 etc) except on an emulator. I would challenge any of the 'haters' to go check out the original, tell me what they think of the gamepplay, and then tell me if ED is better or not.
See ya all in space, cowboys
I agree that there should be a warning if your cash balance drops below your insurance cost (regardless of wether it is commod purchase, ship purchase, mod purchase etc.). If you are doing this, then doing it as part of the pre-flight checks is the place to do it. You HAVE to do these at least once - it is then your choice to not do them again. The argument about paying insurance after the accident.. difficult, but you still have the choice to pay the excess or take bankruptcy, or, if none of you options are palatable, you could always do a clear save! I have a number of 'issues' with the game, even after starying from alpha, but the game is evolving. DB always said that the game would evolve and expand. Anyone who quits (or claims to) after a number of hours under 3 figures is IMHO an instant gratification player who should go back to candy crap saga or whatever it is called.
Yes, its an MMO, but not in the traditional sense (i.e. what anyone expects given the hype behind MMOs in the last 15/20 years). Anyone here older than 30m remember MUDs? the first MMOs, not not in the sense MMOs are talked about nowadays?
I think that FD have done a brilliant job on ED, and I know people who never played the original Elite game (on anything, BBC, Spectrum, C64 etc) except on an emulator. I would challenge any of the 'haters' to go check out the original, tell me what they think of the gamepplay, and then tell me if ED is better or not.
See ya all in space, cowboys
sorry, but it wouldnt be said at all if folks didnt write 'i quit' threads. i think much of the time its a flippant remark aimed at the attitude or reasoning, rather than the person. and whether they realise it or not, many people who write 'i quit' are more often than not, just looking for a good reason to stay, thats human nature.
You use too many acronyms. What's an IMHO? A prostitute working in the Institute of Missouri maybe?
Dunno, I don't live in missouri, they may not be prostitutes (In My Humble Opinion)
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Then wait for No Mans Sky. There you can make as many stupid an idiotic mistakes as you please. But when you are ready to play a game that's more serious, more risky, and certantly more mature you can come play Elite.
I learned my lesson earlier on in game of not having enough money to cover insurance - but its easy to make a mistake even when your careful I have done it myself when getting carried away fitting expensive toys onto my ship - the other day I Spent x amount on new fittings and my balance after was 200k o better check my insurance 180k ok still covered but cutting it a bit fine and have to fly careful to top it up fast as possible - best to always keep a spare ship somewhere else Just in case
The insurance premium rate is not that high to begin with. There's no excuse for not having enough credits to cover the insurance premium imo. Especially if you already traded your way to T6 and higher. If you fly naked (uninsured), then its the risk you willing accepted and all the consequences that may follows.
The insurance premium shows in the right panel in the status screen, if you dont care to take note and put some credits aside then its your fault
The insurance premium shows in the right panel in the status screen, if you dont care to take note and put some credits aside then its your fault
Nothing that can't be fixed through a loan system or warnings.
Maybe a popup that makes you aware not having enough insurance with an option to "do not display this EVER again". I hate popups but i'm OK with that. Another idea is add an "Insurance training" in the tutorial, where you fly a ship, get destroyed with the insurance screen + some explanation to it. And maybe make it mandatory to complete at least once before able to enter solo/open/group.I suggested a warning before launch if Balance was less than insurance - Simples
That said, it's a lesson learned and in the heat of the moment they post a thread - "Rage Quit - I lost everything" - BTW What is FaceBook?
Anyway after a good nights sleep, they return wiser, they check the right panel, smile and launch.
It's how us Humans learn... Well most Humans anyway
I think that for there to be any point in the pop-up it would have to come up every time with no disable option. I would imagine that the vast majority of the problems are associated with people just being a bit hasty and losing track of their re-buy amount, in particular when upgrading modules/buying cargo. So it is something that should only come up on rare occasions. I can't imagine that anybody is deliberately repeatedly flying without insurance - there is just too much risk.
I think the best solution after reading all what is written here.
You go boom you end as normal in the last station.
You receive a sidey and 95% of what your ship was worth. Period.
You can on the one side not loose it all
But you have to piece together your ship again
This way it is very annoying to "die" but at just this moment an grande time to contemplate choices made and maybe looking for another ship and career path
And in my eyes it would be a lot more realistic than crashing once type 9 on an outpost and then "spawning" in said outpost with an type 9 where there is not even an ship jard...
Insurance would be then madatory paid when you buy the ship, the ship went boom and is gone and you get paid out 95% or whatever that it was worth. period.
This way people have to take the sidewinder and go out getting there junk back together, it is an cool off period and maybe one to make new choices and such.
You go boom you end as normal in the last station.
You receive a sidey and 95% of what your ship was worth. Period.
You can on the one side not loose it all
But you have to piece together your ship again
This way it is very annoying to "die" but at just this moment an grande time to contemplate choices made and maybe looking for another ship and career path
And in my eyes it would be a lot more realistic than crashing once type 9 on an outpost and then "spawning" in said outpost with an type 9 where there is not even an ship jard...
Insurance would be then madatory paid when you buy the ship, the ship went boom and is gone and you get paid out 95% or whatever that it was worth. period.
This way people have to take the sidewinder and go out getting there junk back together, it is an cool off period and maybe one to make new choices and such.
I see where the OP Is coming from but honestly it all boils down to a choice the player made.
There is really nothing you can do no matter how hard you try to stop someone from making a stupid decision. If a player is going to go out and fly his 30 million credit ship with only 20k in the bank he's going to do it. Sure you may prevent 1 or 2 from making that mistake by flashing a hundred warnings at them but the majority are still going to do it.
Short of removing penalties all together it will always, always come down to the player. Heck, even if the death is through zero fault of the player such as a random bug that just destroys your ship for no reason you still had to have made the choice to undock with that uninsured ship.
Take myself for example. I've wanted a Type 7 for quite awhile now. I hate trading but I realize it's fairly important if I ever want to get the bigger combat ships. So I started the grind and for 3 straight days and maybe 18 hours total I did nothing but run this stupid 3 system trade route to get the funds. Once I saw I had enough money to purchase my Type 7 I immediately went and bought one. I then equipped it with the majority of the stuff I'd need. Low and behold I was done to less then 100k credits.
As much as I just really, really wanted to start raking in some cash I knew it would be stupid. So I bought myself a cheap Sidewinder and flew it to the system I had my combat ready Viper. All I'll do now is bounty hunt and run missions until I have enough credits to cover 2 or 3 insurance claims on my Type 7. Sure it sucks to have to wait to use it but it sucks a whole hell of a lot less then it would to use it now and lose it ALL!
There is really nothing you can do no matter how hard you try to stop someone from making a stupid decision. If a player is going to go out and fly his 30 million credit ship with only 20k in the bank he's going to do it. Sure you may prevent 1 or 2 from making that mistake by flashing a hundred warnings at them but the majority are still going to do it.
Short of removing penalties all together it will always, always come down to the player. Heck, even if the death is through zero fault of the player such as a random bug that just destroys your ship for no reason you still had to have made the choice to undock with that uninsured ship.
Take myself for example. I've wanted a Type 7 for quite awhile now. I hate trading but I realize it's fairly important if I ever want to get the bigger combat ships. So I started the grind and for 3 straight days and maybe 18 hours total I did nothing but run this stupid 3 system trade route to get the funds. Once I saw I had enough money to purchase my Type 7 I immediately went and bought one. I then equipped it with the majority of the stuff I'd need. Low and behold I was done to less then 100k credits.
As much as I just really, really wanted to start raking in some cash I knew it would be stupid. So I bought myself a cheap Sidewinder and flew it to the system I had my combat ready Viper. All I'll do now is bounty hunt and run missions until I have enough credits to cover 2 or 3 insurance claims on my Type 7. Sure it sucks to have to wait to use it but it sucks a whole hell of a lot less then it would to use it now and lose it ALL!
I took my Anaconda out uninsured, I grant you, nothing does make the adrenaline pumping harder than flying an 200 mil ship without coverage
Why should FD take any Action for PPL who are Brainafk?
(before seeing this thread) I've often thought that having visibility of the 'Insurance: buyback' figure would be useful when trading and equipping.
Ideally, when trading, this would appear as a subtle text line, on a row above/below the current balance, with a visible red re-colouring of the when the 'BUY +' box and 'Confirm' button if your balance dips below buyback.
When equipping, items that would put your Credits below the prospective buyback figure (including the item itself, and any swap-outs), should be highlighted differently.
The warning before launch (mentioned by previous posters) would be useful, but is probably not necessary -- I'd only want a confirmation when I can't buy back, say, my ship plus 60% of my loadout.
We shouldn't block people from flying without insurance.
At a stretch, I can imagine factions giving you more reputation if you're seen to be regularly flying WITH insurance -- it helps them feel that you're a reliable long-term prospect.
Ideally, when trading, this would appear as a subtle text line, on a row above/below the current balance, with a visible red re-colouring of the when the 'BUY +' box and 'Confirm' button if your balance dips below buyback.
When equipping, items that would put your Credits below the prospective buyback figure (including the item itself, and any swap-outs), should be highlighted differently.
The warning before launch (mentioned by previous posters) would be useful, but is probably not necessary -- I'd only want a confirmation when I can't buy back, say, my ship plus 60% of my loadout.
We shouldn't block people from flying without insurance.
At a stretch, I can imagine factions giving you more reputation if you're seen to be regularly flying WITH insurance -- it helps them feel that you're a reliable long-term prospect.
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When I first flew my ship into a station wall a little too quick, I was surprised at the 96% insurance, and my first reaction was "Oh, cool, can't see how I could lose out with that buffer". Apparently I overestimated the prevalence of "Don't use what you can't afford to replace" around the MMO universe...