I was finally given another federation rank progression mission, an assassination. Very bad timing, as I was in my unarmed T9 with limited cash available. So I did the only thing I could do: Bought an Eagle, kitted it all A (except sensors, which would have blown the poor powerplant) and with three dumbfire racks, about 2 million in all. Made my way over to the target system, and after the usual frustration with the USS my target finally shows up, a Dropship. Deploying weapons, crossing fingers and pulling the trigger. Next thing I know is my jaw drops to the floor. First volley shuts down the enemy shield, three more and he was toast. And the fire rate at which you can pump the dumbfires out is insane. Shutting down a large enemy in seconds in a 2 million nutshell is absolutely imba.
Dumbfire Eagles are way too good
- Thread starter Cmdr. Numa
- Start date
It's ok, they're on it:
So point defence does work against dumbfire missiles now and we're experimenting with the way it fires to improve it's ability to take down missiles. However this won't stop an alpha strike from close range but is still a good thing to fix none the less. In addition to ensure that point defence isn't the de-facto module to fit on all utility mounts we're working on changes that might make the heat sink more useful and new modules that you might want on them instead
I don't think missiles actually need any changes themselves. Instead I proposed and was approved to increase the shields resistance to explosive damage dramatically. Currently kinetic and explosive weapons have the same resistance values. With this change it would take many alpha strikes to drop the shield. The hull however is unaffected by the change and can still be destroyed quickly. What I like about this solution however is that for one it makes the initial volley very inefficient and should provide the target some time to do something about it before it's too late. Secondly it makes more sense to me that a missile must penetrate the hull and then explode to do damage in space where as detonating against a shield results in a flash with not a lot of bang because space is a vacuum.
These aren't perfect solutions by any means but they're a step in the right direction.
Doing pretty well with my sidewinder with a burst laser and single dumbfire rack. Not much endurance, but yeah those things are nasty.
They're like the new cannon, now that cannons aren't worth scrap.
They're like the new cannon, now that cannons aren't worth scrap.
I think toning down the rate of fire would already help a bit. I knew about the current problem with the point defense vs. dumbs, so you could say I used an exploit on that mission.
Well they are going to be changed. Not to make them weaker at their intended purpose but to make them proportionately weaker against shields. The reduction of explosive damage to shields is the same as kinetic weapons, but explosives cause much more damage so the result is missiles are undesirably too strong against shields. This isn't what they're supposed to be good at.
So they're going to have their own damage fall off value. But will be just as powerful as ever against hull.
Sounds like a fantastic change to me.
I know, I just think the change is unnecessary.
It's not going to affect me as I consider them among the least effective weapons already.
I think the change (explosions less effective against shields) is both realistic and good for the game (hopefully more diversity in weapons deployed). As for the OP's experience, I think the Federal Dropship could do with a massive boost to hull and a bit of a boost to shields, otherwise it seems like a very bad deal for the price. It doesn't seem to be good at anything, at least make it viable as a tank...
If anything, explosions should be thermic-kinetic, and thus more effective against shields...cause that's pretty much how high explosives work; a shockwave (kinetic), which causes a lot of heat (thermic), and the impact of any pieces of the casing (kinetic).
The Dropship will eventually function as a dropship, and I'd rather wait until then before arguing for any changes to it.
That said, these assassination missions should not feature dropships.
IIRC the developers' argument to the contrary was that shields just project the explosion into space, whereas hitting the hull allows it to penetrate.
Missiles have terrible armor penetration (ability to damage specific subsystems without the hull absorbing the bulk of the damage), suggesting they detonate on impact, and are neither on delayed fuses, nor are shaped charges.
They are going to make whatever changes they see fit, but their explanation sounds like an arbitrary contrivance.
I'd prefer to avoid realism discussion but explosions don't cause extreme damage due to heat energy but due to the explosive and violent energy. Kinetic energy.
It's not being burned that destroys mass. It's being torn apart. The concentrated heat from a laser is going to be much more heat intensive.
It's not being burned that destroys mass. It's being torn apart. The concentrated heat from a laser is going to be much more heat intensive.
You're kidding right? Dumbfires take down shields like nothing else at the moment. They're what you use for bigger targets PVP or PVE as you don't even need to target subsystems.
Arbitrary contrivance? I don't think you know what those words mean. Aside from the youtubes showing dumbfires in action FD have all the data and can see the bigger picture. Despite what some thing FD do have the bigger picture and what's best for the game in mind.
Yea, idk about any reasoning anyone else is using but I never even used them on shields how others are. I always just assumed they were hull crushers and used them that way. I think I did used them on shields one time and I wasn't impressed, especially since they started firing backwards after the first volley.
That depends on how strong the laser is vs. the explosive.
A 1.12 MW laser (a medium beam laser in ED), at 100% efficiency is going to deliver much less heat energy over the course of a second than a sizable amount of high explosive will in a tiny fraction of the time.
A single kilogram of TNT releases more thermal energy on detonation than a one second burst of a medium beam laser does in ED.
No.
If you hit, and this is purely a function of their raw damage and fire rate, not any special effectiveness vs. shields.
You still need to hit, and most players who are paying attention can make it very hard to land dumbfires on them unless they are in the few truly massive ships.
NPCs are more vulnerable, but the cost of the missiles counter balances this excellently. I don't even use dumbfires for Anaconda assassinations because the 45-60 seconds it saves isn't worth the credits.
I'm well aware of the definitions and proper use of these words. If Arkku's paraphrasing of the devs explanation for how explosives should be doing less to shields than they do now is accurate, then I'm not sure how it could be argued that it was anything besides an arbitrary contrivance.
I wasn't criticizing any balance or gameplay judgment here, just the technical justification.
They will do what they feel is best for their vision. I just find it laughable that anyone really thinks dumbfires need rebalancing, given their enormous downsides.
Huh, you make it sound like ED is sci-fi.
Most sci-fi is high fantasy with a certain flavored skin. ED is not really an exception, nor does it need to be.
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No he said because vacuum would make the shock wave weaker, and I am not that sure if that would be even the case. It the case for nuclear and fusion bombs, but should not really be the case for conventional explosives.
This game is going to be boringly "balanced" ...