I just got murdered

[adio]

A tricky solution. Just imagine those guys would have placed a bounty on OP for fun. What would you propose to counter this?

After you get attacked you should have the option to place a bounty on the attacker - possibly for a limited time within your systems menu around the "report crimes against me" area.

However when you get destroyed you should have the option on the insurance screen to set a bounty. It should be say equivalent to some fraction of your replacement + cargo loss cost / a coefficient relating your rating to their rating and your equipment level to theirs?

ie: if they are lower rated than you the bounty is less. If their equipment is less than yours, the bounty is less. Bully either through going after the less well equipped or capable/newer should lead to the option to place a bigger bounty.

These should all be fixed and systematic. If you wanted then maybe at that point a player could put some fraction of the calculated bounty on top of it by sacrificing their own money to top up the bounty. Again using the calculated bounty and only on destruction would stop it being ruthlessly abused.

That way no one puts bogus bounties on players for fun.

What if he does not have a bounty? E.g. anarchy system?

In anarchies anything goes. You go there, and get taken out, too bad.

 

[Evyl Minkey]

Instead of having the player set the bounty, which could be open to abuse, make it automatic. If you are killed while clean your insurance company wants to recoup it's losses so it puts a bounty on your attacker based on the actual value of your ship+components (not your rebuy cost). Bounty should follow the culprit until someone claims it.
Couple this with factions you have influence with taking the "crime" more seriously and sending out more effective authority vesssels.

That way pirates get the thrill of being outlaws but probably don't want to stay in one place too long. Killers get to kill and as they rack up bounties they get bounty hunters coming after them and a better npc challenge. People with a lot of kills could get mentioned on galnet (Wanted dead or alive 20mill credits etc).

Edit - if you die with a bounty on you for murder your insurance I invalid. Insurance companies always find something in the small print so they don't have to pay. That would encourage people to at least try to get some of your cargo to offset the potential loss.

 

[Mohrgan]

Instead of having the player set the bounty, which could be open to abuse, make it automatic. If you are killed while clean your insurance company wants to recoup it's losses so it puts a bounty on your attacker based on the actual value of your ship+components (not your rebuy cost). Bounty should follow the culprit until someone claims it.
Couple this with factions you have influence with taking the "crime" more seriously and sending out more effective authority vesssels.

That way pirates get the thrill of being outlaws but probably don't want to stay in one place too long. Killers get to kill and as they rack up bounties they get bounty hunters coming after them and a better npc challenge. People with a lot of kills could get mentioned on galnet (Wanted dead or alive 20mill credits etc).

Edit - if you die with a bounty on you for murder your insurance I invalid. Insurance companies always find something in the small print so they don't have to pay. That would encourage people to at least try to get some of your cargo to offset the potential loss.

I definitely like the way you think. Those Insurance guys might even send someone themselves. The loss of insurance is pretty rough though..... How would you handle Anarchy systems. Everyone is clean out there. Your plan would have the effect of protecting the Player Killer with the Bounty.

 

[alco82]

I think people playing solo in fear of the pvp in open until they have a larger ship or gear are missing out. Some of the best fun / encounters in open can be had in the cobra or viper, and if it doesn't work out the bill for repair or loss is ok really. Turning up in a ship worth more than those for your first ever PVP encounter seems to me as more of a risk than getting a few battle scars early on in your career.....just a thought

 

[Mohrgan]

I think people playing solo in fear of the pvp in open until they have a larger ship or gear are missing out. Some of the best fun / encounters in open can be had in the cobra or viper, and if it doesn't work out the bill for repair or loss is ok really. Turning up in a ship worth more than those for your first ever PVP encounter seems to me as more of a risk than getting a few battle scars early on in your career.....just a thought

I totally agree. I built a Eagle to try my hand at PvP. I am completely new to Flying type games. I bought my 1st simple Flight Stick for E: D. So, knowing I will have it handed to me, I control my risk. I can be fearless and learn how it goes.
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I like the Idea of introducing the Insurance Companies interests here. Read Evyl Minkey's post above. It's down right brilliant.

 

[Turnips]

I totally agree. I built a Eagle to try my hand at PvP. I am completely new to Flying type games. I bought my 1st simple Flight Stick for E: D. So, knowing I will have it handed to me, I control my risk. I can be fearless and learn how it goes.

Well, even that is built on the assumption that you'll first enjoy getting served by PK'ers and then later will be enjoying even more when you are no longer getting killed by the random acts of senseless violence.

There's a shortcut, you know?

 

[Wizz15]

Set the Player paid bounty, from the immediate Insurance screen on the killers ship that was used, not just the player, so they can;t go buy a Sidewinder, and let their pals blow them up for little to no loss. Just like the Bounty Vouchers that are earned by Bounty Hunters they should be associated with the Player Killers ship.

In this case the killer can sell his ship to make the bounties go away, or stack the bounties and let a friend cash them in when they are worth more than his current ship.

 

[Cathalo]

This is a how it should work.
1. If you are clean and killed by another player while flying in a law abiding system then you're allowed to place a bounty on the player who killed you. You can place any amount of credits you would like as a bounty. The newsnet should always keep a list of the top 50 most wanted and be updated with the last system the killer was targeted in by another player or NPC. A new internal system should be added, probe droids. Probe droids should be moderately expensive and take up 1t cargo space per droid. While launched, their hold space will still be consumed with their docking equipment and repair modules, meaning that the player will only be able to launch as many droids as he has hold space for and his hold space will be consumed until either the droid is destroyed or the docking equipment is jettisoned. These droids will essentially allow the hunter to see all players in the system they were launched to plus any nearby system within 10ly while the hunter is off in a remote location. When a wanted player shows up in the system it sends a message right away to the hunter "TDS347 Has spotted CMDR 3GRIEF-E0 in the Ngaliba system!", Likewise, when a wanted player is targeted by the droid the wanted player receives a message "System Trace Scan Detected!" or something to that effect to let them know they are being watched. Once this scan is completed it can open up a mission for the wanted player which will let him track down and destroy the droid if he wants to.

Players who are killed while wanted must pay off the total amount of these bounties before they pay insurance. So, if CMDR X has a 20 million bounty, he has to pay the total sum of this money BEFORE he even enters the insurance screen. If he cannot then his account is essentially screwed and he should not be allowed to reset save until 60 days are up. This is to prevent people from gaming the system.
I also liked another posters idea about letting guys place hits on other players through the black market, but that might be something they can add in down the road. For now, this seems like a good enough solution.

 

[Mohrgan]

This is a how it should work.
1. If you are clean and killed by another player while flying in a law abiding system then you're allowed to place a bounty on the player who killed you. You can place any amount of credits you would like as a bounty. The newsnet should always keep a list of the top 50 most wanted and be updated with the last system the killer was targeted in by another player or NPC. A new internal system should be added, probe droids. Probe droids should be moderately expensive and take up 1t cargo space per droid. While launched, their hold space will still be consumed with their docking equipment and repair modules, meaning that the player will only be able to launch as many droids as he has hold space for and his hold space will be consumed until either the droid is destroyed or the docking equipment is jettisoned. These droids will essentially allow the hunter to see all players in the system they were launched to plus any nearby system within 10ly while the hunter is off in a remote location. When a wanted player shows up in the system it sends a message right away to the hunter "TDS347 Has spotted CMDR 3GRIEF-E0 in the Ngaliba system!", Likewise, when a wanted player is targeted by the droid the wanted player receives a message "System Trace Scan Detected!" or something to that effect to let them know they are being watched. Once this scan is completed it can open up a mission for the wanted player which will let him track down and destroy the droid if he wants to.

Players who are killed while wanted must pay off the total amount of these bounties before they pay insurance. So, if CMDR X has a 20 million bounty, he has to pay the total sum of this money BEFORE he even enters the insurance screen. If he cannot then his account is essentially screwed and he should not be allowed to reset save until 60 days are up. This is to prevent people from gaming the system.
I also liked another posters idea about letting guys place hits on other players through the black market, but that might be something they can add in down the road. For now, this seems like a good enough solution.

In all ways this is in the extreme. I get where you're going, and you can see what my thoughts on PK's are, but you would have them go to far, for something the system is designed to allow. PK's should pay a price, but potentially getting a ban.... too far.
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I am generally not in favor of new Modules or the complexity of the system you endorse. Again, I get your feelings. I am totaly sympathetic, but the system they create should discourage PK'ing, but not make it banning level offense. Look your ideas over and maybe tone it down some.

 

[Mohrgan]

Well, even that is built on the assumption that you'll first enjoy getting served by PK'ers and then later will be enjoying even more when you are no longer getting killed by the random acts of senseless violence.

There's a shortcut, you know?

Getting your ship popped isn;t the worst thing that can happen to you. Sometimes getting beat teaches you more than getting a win. You just have to be sure you don;t take it personally. There is room for senseless violence in a game made of pixels. You can brush it off and try again.
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I was a competitive PvP player in another Game. I can tell you that: PvP brings out the worst in people and the people that are the worst. You have to toughen your skin, and try to give it right back at them. There's nothing like the satisfaction of besting that guy who thinks everyone else is easy pickin's. I'm new to flying and flightsticks and all of this. I expect a time when I will be able to hold my own. Maybe you could too.

 

[Cathalo]

In all ways this is in the extreme. I get where you're going, and you can see what my thoughts on PK's are, but you would have them go to far, for something the system is designed to allow. PK's should pay a price, but potentially getting a ban.... too far.
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I am generally not in favor of new Modules or the complexity of the system you endorse. Again, I get your feelings. I am totaly sympathetic, but the system they create should discourage PK'ing, but not make it banning level offense. Look your ideas over and maybe tone it down some.

This may sound funny to you, but I'am a PK. I would love playing a wanted under this system because it would cause me to act more cautiously and to make sure I keep enough credits to pay off my bounties. It would also send potentially dangerous hunters after me to help me find more PvP, which I'm totally up for. It can be hard to find good PvP in the game right now and I often end up killing folks simply due to boredom.

With that said, maybe the 60 day limit is a bit on the extreme side. But if you remove this then people are going to game it for easy credits. Maybe a better solution would be for the game to take 20% out of whatever the CMDR makes until the bounties are paid off? Perhaps that is better as it still allows the CMDR a chance to reset his save but when he comes back he will lose 20% of all transactions until he pays up his bounty.

If you're dedicated enough you could always buy an extra account to help manage this. Which wouldn't entirely nullify the negative effects while also throwing some extra money ED's way to help their efforts to improve the game.

 

[Mohrgan]

This may sound funny to you, but I'am a PK. I would love playing a wanted under this system because it would cause me to act more cautiously and to make sure I keep enough credits to pay off my bounties. It would also send potentially dangerous hunters after me to help me find more PvP, which I'm totally up for. It can be hard to find good PvP in the game right now and I often end up killing folks simply due to boredom.

With that said, maybe the 60 day limit is a bit on the extreme side. But if you remove this then people are going to game it for easy credits. Maybe a better solution would be for the game to take 20% out of whatever the CMDR makes until the bounties are paid off? Perhaps that is better as it still allows the CMDR a chance to reset his save but when he comes back he will lose 20% of all transactions until he pays up his bounty.

If you're dedicated enough you could always buy an extra account to help manage this. Which wouldn't entirely nullify the negative effects while also throwing some extra money ED's way to help their efforts to improve the game.

Ok, if the PK'ers in tha game could live with it, I surely (stop calling me Shirley) can. Let's see how it floats here in the Thread. Then you'll see that most PK'ers won't have the same opinion as you. Lol.
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As to the "...I often end up killing folks simply due to boredom." thing. That's on you. There are a number of things you can do other than chasing down quiet players. If you only enjoy/desire popping ships I start to suspect some other issues there.

 

[Unpleasant]

It's been a while since I posted here, I was one of the complainers about low level module scarcity and the lack of a multi jump route system- and am glad both of these things made it into the game.
I've been playing hard and having a really fun time and have had many memorable experiences within this wonderful game world with only a few things that have detracted from the experience (the buggy branching missions for example)
I worked hard getting and tricking out my cobra before working for my asp... I've only had it for a day and was trying to get to grips with just how heavy it is and wanted to do another day or so of rare trading and missions in the Lave system to get modules for my exodus to the one of the nebulae "nearby".

Then blew myself up by throttling too hard when exiting a spacestation and clipping the letterbox.
oh well, about 50 ton of rares and a whole bunch of bounties and exploration data lost, as well as the missions that I was ticking off... Yeah it cost me dear and knocked me down to 200k but I got back on the horse and tried to recoup my losses.

Jumped to Zaonce and got jumped by a "harmless" asp CMDR who was anything but! No warnings, no threats he just opened fire and I got my asp kicked... Then the police showed up AS WELL as another CMDR.
"wow" this was shaping up to be another story, my shields were down, my canopy had blown but I MIGHT just survive this, and would have done so with the help of another nice commander (also piloting an asp)
nah, he just opened up on me with quad missiles. Deadz.

i stared at the screen in a shock filled rage and saw my insurance screen with a big red button to declare bankruptcy or scrap a load of my expensive gear so the loan would cover my ship.

So I sucked it up, chose to keep only the most expensive modules which I then sold or replaced along with my asp hull. Went to get my old trusty cobra which, incidentally, I had never died in and was stored in Zaonce of all places (yeah, I was checking all the players in the system) and I have decided to earn some more capital before changing ships again and keep my old ship with all its systems intact.

However, selling my asp got my about 7 million, and you know what?
If I could put that down as a galaxy wide bounty on the one who did this to me I would!
In a heartbeat!

All the pathetic pvp/griefers will kill this game for sure. No respect for FD when they refuse to do exactly what they said they'd do and section them off.

 

[benkei]

[...]
Actually had a giggle early this morning. I try to say hello to people passing through by sending them "o7" to be friendly. The pilot was about to drop out of SC at a station, but instead shot off and jumped to another system. True I was right behind him coming from the nav point to collect bounties, so that's probably why he/she freaked out. So for those that may not know, o7 = salute/waving hello not runforyourlifeigonnakillyou.

Have a more cooperative play mindset.

I wish this would be possible - having a cooperative mindset enforced on people.
Unfortunately that's not gonna happen. Barely anyone acknowledges that it can be fun to allow others to have fun. Majority is just focused on getting as much "fun" out of the game for themselves, no matter the effects on other players. That's the way "gaming" works nowadays, unfortunately. And that's why people are scared so easily.
I tend to hail more or less every CMDR that pops up on my radar and either I get no answer at all or something like "???" and off they jump. Kinda sad really.
From my understanding, the vision of Frontier for Elite was to build something focused on rare occasions meeting another CMDR and use such moments for cooperative social engagement. Not for meaningless PVP combat. And imho it is meaningless. There are 3 ways to reach Elite and 2 options don't need you to fire even one single shot. That alone should give enough of a hint on where the focus of the game is.

One of the main reason for even having those kind of people, only looking for a PVP fight, is failed marketing focus for the game but that's a different story.

/ramble

 

[Mohrgan]

All the pathetic pvp/griefers will kill this game for sure. No respect for FD when they refuse to do exactly what they said they'd do and section them off.

FD did. You can join Group play. There are a number of PvE only Groups out there. I play on Mobius when I don;t want my head bashed in. When I'm up for a whuppin' I grab my fighter, currently a Eagle, and have at 'em. It's like bullies. Avoid them, until you're ready to fight back. Punch them in the nose and they wander off looking for easier pickin's. That how cowards act.
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The power is in your hands. Be in charge of how you play.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

-- Deleted --

 

[Lok Anload]

Here's a thought.
What if I'm part of a pirate outfit, and in the course of my daily activities I kill a very rich trader and afterwards he puts a big bounty on my head. Wouldn't I just want to go hop in a sidewinder immediately and let one of my friends kill me? This way my friend would get the bounty, I would lose nothing AND have my bounty wiped. It would just be my victim transferring credits to me and my friends. Surely this would not be what he (my victim) was intending.

I do think a player should be able to put a bounty on someones head after they are killed, however there seems to be all kinds of ways to abuse it.

Well, there is a simple answer to this really. Apply the bounty to the ship as well as the pilot. Could even make it 50/50. So a 50k bounty goes 25k on the pilot no matter what he is flying, and 25k on the ship. You get the same pilot in the same ship you net the full 50k.

That ought to handle this type of exploit.

Oh, and any attempt to sell the ship requires the bounty on it to be paid off first.

Lok Anload

 

[gregoreuo]

It's been a while since I posted here, I was one of the complainers about low level module scarcity and the lack of a multi jump route system- and am glad both of these things made it into the game.
I've been playing hard and having a really fun time and have had many memorable experiences within this wonderful game world with only a few things that have detracted from the experience (the buggy branching missions for example)
I worked hard getting and tricking out my cobra before working for my asp... I've only had it for a day and was trying to get to grips with just how heavy it is and wanted to do another day or so of rare trading and missions in the Lave system to get modules for my exodus to the one of the nebulae "nearby".

Then blew myself up by throttling too hard when exiting a spacestation and clipping the letterbox.
oh well, about 50 ton of rares and a whole bunch of bounties and exploration data lost, as well as the missions that I was ticking off... Yeah it cost me dear and knocked me down to 200k but I got back on the horse and tried to recoup my losses.

Jumped to Zaonce and got jumped by a "harmless" asp CMDR who was anything but! No warnings, no threats he just opened fire and I got my asp kicked... Then the police showed up AS WELL as another CMDR.
"wow" this was shaping up to be another story, my shields were down, my canopy had blown but I MIGHT just survive this, and would have done so with the help of another nice commander (also piloting an asp)
nah, he just opened up on me with quad missiles. Deadz.

i stared at the screen in a shock filled rage and saw my insurance screen with a big red button to declare bankruptcy or scrap a load of my expensive gear so the loan would cover my ship.

So I sucked it up, chose to keep only the most expensive modules which I then sold or replaced along with my asp hull. Went to get my old trusty cobra which, incidentally, I had never died in and was stored in Zaonce of all places (yeah, I was checking all the players in the system) and I have decided to earn some more capital before changing ships again and keep my old ship with all its systems intact.

However, selling my asp got my about 7 million, and you know what?
If I could put that down as a galaxy wide bounty on the one who did this to me I would!
In a heartbeat!

Good attitude and a good idea (Player bounties) +1

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Well, there is a simple answer to this really. Apply the bounty to the ship as well as the pilot. Could even make it 50/50. So a 50k bounty goes 25k on the pilot no matter what he is flying, and 25k on the ship. You get the same pilot in the same ship you net the full 50k.

That ought to handle this type of exploit.

Oh, and any attempt to sell the ship requires the bounty on it to be paid off first.

Lok Anload

Lock and load - great ideas +1

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Easy :
The Game decides who can place a Bounty or Assassination Mission on whom - and under what conditions (naturally only after attacked and damaged or destroyed).
Hence, only Clean Players killed by others would be allowed to create these - against the perpetrators of the Crime. Players who received only damage might place a smaller bounty on them, for example.

It would be up to the Victim which helldogs he'd unleash. Rich Trader? Might place assassination reward upto the size of his insurance case + lost cargo onto the Criminal.
No money but Allied with a high Rank to a government? Contact them and make them take care of it (will send out a fleet of ships on a search&destroy mission, depending on status & rank with them).
No government alliegiance but Allied with that local System Faction ? Report the crime there and see them use their influence (own and associated Factions friendly with them in neighbouring Systems).

If an Anarchy System was the location, it would be possible to fly to a Friendly/Allied Station/Government to report the crime. If Friendly/Allied with any Faction in that Anarchy System - that would be the place to go.
Otherwise, Rank with any Government would afford these anytime, as i.e. "noone kills an Empire Baron without consequences" (you catch the drift).

After all, one of their Friends/Allies was victim of a crime - and what other purpose would it have to have Friends & Allies then ??!
I assume i.e. a Faction you were hauling Cargo for would also not be pleased to see it destroyed - and again affording similar measures.

To top it off - scale the countermeasures to the "level of bad". Rampaging serial Killers get a Carrier Battle group (95% chance of kill), smaller one-time offenders might even be left alive with 25% hull - but with a friendly note to never ever do that again.
Past history will be used to weigh the scale, so Serial Killers always paying off the laughable bounty fines would still get the full treatment.

So next time i.e. a Federation Post Commander was killed - that criminal Player would soon encounter an Interdiction and attack by a small fleet of very potent Federation ships.
This is how it should work.

----------------------------
Similar suggestions were made long times ago in the Forum, in order to create some balance where currently none exists.
It would also start making sense about Friendly/Allied status and Rank with governments or factions - where currently hardly any exists.
The missing link, the lack of logical conclusion and consequence. Above are just some ad-hoc suggestions. Right now... basically anything reasonable would help - and is long overdue.

+1 Some really good ideas here

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

The title of this thread makes me think of a Clash song, must be my age.

 

[Mohrgan]

Well, there is a simple answer to this really. Apply the bounty to the ship as well as the pilot. Could even make it 50/50. So a 50k bounty goes 25k on the pilot no matter what he is flying, and 25k on the ship. You get the same pilot in the same ship you net the full 50k.

That ought to handle this type of exploit.

Oh, and any attempt to sell the ship requires the bounty on it to be paid off first.

Lok Anload

Someone already mentioned that the PK'er could just sell that ship and get a new one with the proceeds. This needs working out, but the PK'ers ship should be factored in. I'm leaning towards a penalty. Putting a bounty on a PK'er has to hurt. So, some fiddling with the insurance cost is in order. I'm moving away from a player bounty and more towards an in-game bounty, higher than what we have now, and an insurance penalty based on the number/cost of the clean player ships he's popped.
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How about the game puts a sizable bounty on thier heads, and the insurance company puts a lien on their assets? Once the PK'er get popped, the insurance guys claim their losses back from them. These losses would be a percentage of the ship prices that he's popped. Remember, we buy the ships at retail, the insurance companies would negotiate the prices down. This would be based on any Clean player popped in a non Anarchy system maybe...
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Some other considerations: Player ships should be destroyed when the PK'er reduces any ship component that could strand the ship dead in space, something that would at present force a Commander to self destruct. This should go for ramming as well. Currently destroying a ship by ramming it, doesn't equate to an attack.