I just got murdered

[Trigg]

The title of this thread makes me think of a Clash song, must be my age.

Career Opportunities?

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

this..[video=youtube;mvA_ipa-8DM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvA_ipa-8DM[/video]

 

[Roguey]

Well I defiantly think Frontier should admit there is a problem with player-killers in open-play. The current system needs a lot more work to be fair to both sides. Even some of the weapons need re-balancing to stop this from happen, some bring the shields down way too quickly! I saw someone on youtube post a video on how they human python within 10 seconds with a viper.

Maybe a simple solution would be remove the rebuy cost for the killed commander (if killed by another human player). This way all you would lose is some cargo, but keep your ship with all the upgrades. Maybe put a timer on the free rebuy to stop it from be exploited, and an intrediction cool-down too.

 

[kelticfury]

1. No bounty unless subject to a killing? Then an option to place a bounty appears post death when you respawn? - multiple kills by the same player all add up.

2. If it happened in Anarchy then that's essentially what that system is? Pilots should be wary of flying through Anarchy especially in ill prepared ships.

Yes, keep hearing about unshielded traders getting 'dicted and destroyed when they try to escape, then come to the forums demanding some form of justice for this horrible 'murder'. If your ship is destroyed, it still isn't murder. And unless you have a bounty on yourself, the person who attacked and destroyed your ship will be getting a bounty already, so no need for additional 'player imposed' bounty. Unless of course you are gambling by taking your trade ship loaded full of precious cargo through an anarchy system, which would just be accepting the risk of piracy. Surely no one is doing that, because that would be deliberately negating the mechanics of justice out of greed, then crying for justice anyway. Surely no one would possibly do such a thing, right?

 

[Mohrgan]

Yes, keep hearing about unshielded traders getting 'dicted and destroyed when they try to escape, then come to the forums demanding some form of justice for this horrible 'murder'. If your ship is destroyed, it still isn't murder. And unless you have a bounty on yourself, the person who attacked and destroyed your ship will be getting a bounty already, so no need for additional 'player imposed' bounty. Unless of course you are gambling by taking your trade ship loaded full of precious cargo through an anarchy system, which would just be accepting the risk of piracy. Surely no one is doing that, because that would be deliberately negating the mechanics of justice out of greed, then crying for justice anyway. Surely no one would possibly do such a thing, right?

Way to keep up with the thread....

 

[Robzilla]

Wow, I did not expect to see such an enthusiastic outpouring of so many well thought out arguments in this thread, every single post I've read so far, is pure gold!
There are a couple of things I'd like to say:

I am a firm believer that "mad dog" players shouldn't be punished in a real world context (account suspension) if they are acting within the realms of gameplay but I would like to see proportionate responses to such behaviour within the game world (obscene/threatening chat is another matter obviously)

Having to pay off your bounty AND your insurance (or even invalidating your insurance policy) seems like a good idea on the surface. I know that the potential crippling financial penalties would dissuade me.

Killing a friend to collect a private bounty (or hit) on them would be FRAUD. In fact close association with a criminal should be a criminal act in itself. Not sure how the game could check for this automatically but a private individual could possibly be subject to a "background investigation" if they are formally friends with or have been in, say, the same systems as each other for a certain percentage of recent play time.

Formally licensed bounty hunters could be given more detailed tracking information on fugitives.

Extortion by pirate clans is completely valid gameplay IMO, but expect trouble. I would love to be able to be hired by individual players to act as trading escorts for a split of the profits or be part of a posse that can split bounties on most wanted fugitives.
In fact, I'd love to see vigilante/pirate one even pirate/pirate "gang fights" in the game

In a real world context, serial murder and terrorist atrocities would be "public enemies" and start massive manhunts from the authorities and perpetrators would only be welcome in lawless or sympathetic faction's areas. The tricky thing here is a particularly "733t" player happily fighting off all attempts from the authorities like some kind of unkillable terminator but in this situation, the bounty would continue to rise along with his notoriety and their known location should be broadcast to either warn off average players (here be dragons!) or attract wannabe giant killers. Eventually someone bigger or badder, or even better; a task force of players could hunt them down.

I can't see any of this happening anytime soon but a game where real players can affect the society of the universe in these ways is a game I would play for years to come. (Carpel tunnel syndrome permitting)

 

[kelticfury]

Way to keep up with the thread....

what, no +rep!?

I kept up with the thread just fine. Peaople want a way to impose their own bounty on somone, which the game already does unless 1) You are attacked while wanted yourself, or 2) you are in an anarchy system. Oh and "murder"... No one has ever been murdered in Elite: Dangerous. They have had their ship destroyed and had to be escape podded to safety according to the FD lore.

Seems pretty straight forward to me. Perhaps it is your reading comprehension that needs work and not mine.

 

[Mohrgan]

what, no +rep!?

I kept up with the thread just fine. Peaople want a way to impose their own bounty on somone, which the game already does unless 1) You are attacked while wanted yourself, or 2) you are in an anarchy system. Oh and "murder"... No one has ever been murdered in Elite: Dangerous. They have had their ship destroyed and had to be escape podded to safety according to the FD lore.

Seems pretty straight forward to me. Perhaps it is your reading comprehension that needs work and not mine.

As has been pointed out many many times, the current bounty system is trivial. It stops no one from killing clean players ships. The Boss has stated that the game should discourage player killing, and encourage group play. As I understand his comments. Some clever reader here should be able to link that video where Mr. Braben talks about this subject.
.
I generally use the term "popping Ships' to keep you detail oriented guys at bay. In Elite, as it stands you are your ship, your human avatar has no use, and you mostly don;t even see it. You are trying to be obtuse.

 

[Daffan]

Some waste of human life killed me at a nav point in a python earlier. I was not wanted, nor was he. I started to chase down a wanted NPC and suddenly my shields were gone. Also the overpowered Python was just as fast as my asp and kept me mass locked until he destroyed me. I didn't even have cargo. There should really be harsher fines for needlessly murdering someone. Killing a person with an empty cargo hold should net a several million credit bounty. That would put a stop to it. Other games ban people for unsporting behavior. Next time I'll just alt+f4 the game...

And some games that are true sandboxes allow their players to do anything. *cough* EVE

 

[kelticfury]

As has been pointed out many many times, the current bounty system is trivial. It stops no one from killing clean players ships. The Boss has stated that the game should discourage player killing, and encourage group play. As I understand his comments. Some clever reader here should be able to link that video where Mr. Braben talks about this subject.
.
I generally use the term "popping Ships' to keep you detail oriented guys at bay. In Elite, as it stands you are your ship, your human avatar has no use, and you mostly don;t even see it. You are trying to be obtuse.

Well before I learned how the KWS scanner really worked, I didn't realize that once scanned and I found they had a bounty, if they were clean in that system i would get a bounty for collecting theirs. This has dissuaded me from ever attacking clean ships. But then again, I am not a psychopathic nerd rager, out to hurt everyone I can.

 

[Mohrgan]

Well before I learned how the KWS scanner really worked, I didn't realize that once scanned and I found they had a bounty, if they were clean in that system i would get a bounty for collecting theirs. This has dissuaded me from ever attacking clean ships. But then again, I am not a psychopathic nerd rager, out to hurt everyone I can.

There in lies the rub. All of this teeth gnashing is because of those very people. The current Bounty system has no claws. It is as easy as docking and shelling out 4, 4.5k credits (I am not sure, I never got a PK bounty). The PK'ers stop off, clean up and go get another. No bother at all.

 

[Antmax]

Well I defiantly think Frontier should admit there is a problem with player-killers in open-play. The current system needs a lot more work to be fair to both sides. Even some of the weapons need re-balancing to stop this from happen, some bring the shields down way too quickly! I saw someone on youtube post a video on how they human python within 10 seconds with a viper.

Maybe a simple solution would be remove the rebuy cost for the killed commander (if killed by another human player). This way all you would lose is some cargo, but keep your ship with all the upgrades. Maybe put a timer on the free rebuy to stop it from be exploited, and an intrediction cool-down too.

Recent news from the lead designer taken from https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=101378&page=15&p=1575950#post1575950

See below RE Murder:

Spoiler

* Murder is not serious enough: This is an interesting one that has a couple of different strands to unpick. Firstly, we are looking to add in a future update a change that will cause any bounty claimed to become a special, non-expiring fine for the perpetrator. The idea is that when you commit a crime you are expected to pay at some point. Currently some game play flow options remove the bounty completing when you are killed, which is not what we want.

It's also worth noting that a bounty is not simply a fine to pay (otherwise it would be called a fine). It is also a green light for you to be attacked. In fact, this is undoubtedly the more serious part of the punishment. I think we still have some way to go to tweak background events to pick up on Commander bounties more (as in, when you fly around with a bounty the game takes it into account when deciding what to generate in the game world near you).

We already have a system that keeps bounties alive when you are killed but they are not claimed (dormant bounties). I just think it would be too punishing to have bounties that kept on being active after respawning. Sure this would not be an issue for the tiny minority of super wealthy Commanders, but our data suggests that losing a ship is a non-trivial event for the majority of pilots - and having a more or less permanent target on your back would likely just stop people committing crimes. That's my current take, anyway.

We are considering bounty adjustments based on some difference metric between Commanders (for example, Elite Commanders getting slapped with a bigger bounty when attacking lower rated pilots, or perhaps based on ship strength).

Also changes to python ( Nerfs) since it is currently overpowered. So more chance to escape. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=102717&page=3&p=1592391&viewfull=1#post1592391

Spoiler

They'll be in the same update probably. The changes to the python is something like -17% to speeds, turn rates and accelerations, -33% to base shield strength roughly. This puts the flight model in a better place for a large fighting based ship and also leaves room for the other fighting ships to come so they can be more manoeuvrable than it. The python still has one of the best hard point placements when it can get its guns to bare on a target and it won't become a sitting duck either.

And one of the coders is currently working on friendly fire. Where some is tolerated against NPC's on your side. How much depends partly on your rep with their faction. Friendly, Allied etc.

So a lot is going to be addressed soon

 

[nbhamilt]

why did you sell the ASP, rather than store it somewhere to save the loss on sale - even if you weren't going to come back to it for ages? you don't need much capital to trade in a cobra!

 

[HectorW]

You could try that but
2. You would have to be willing to lose that ship there and then - probably your pride and joy(?)

Well.... No - ho goes to station, takes Sidewinder, let himself be killed by friend - instant profit.

I'd like players bounty system but it wouldnt work.

 

[redmantab]

Yeah, he should be in a T6 instead, much safer in the open play. Besides, its Asp. Not ASP.

Why is this true? I'm curious.

 

[Robzilla]

why did you sell the ASP, rather than store it somewhere to save the loss on sale - even if you weren't going to come back to it for ages? you don't need much capital to trade in a cobra!

I had 1000 credits and a 200k loan and frankly was hating my asp's lardy fatness and really loud engines. I was also "attached" to my previous ship that had served me well and wanted cash to bay back some of the systems I sold to make up the difference to something above a vanilla asp.
Wise? Probably not as was the decision to not run earlier in the engagement, but I was "role playing" at this point after losing the profits from a days worth of "gaming"
Live and learn.

Well.... No - ho goes to station, takes Sidewinder, let himself be killed by friend - instant profit.

I'd like players bounty system but it wouldnt work.

this has been mentioned before but ideas have moved on

 

[marksawtell]

Forgive me if this has been suggested before but I have a variant based on the idea of personal bounties being placed on pirates . What if the bounty placed was added on to Any existing bounty total and the amount was directly equivalent to what the slayed was worth . In the event that someone takes out the naughty pirate , 50% of the credits go back to each of the commanders taken out by the pirate. Now let's say I lost everything due to a pirate . I was worth 3 million so that's added to a runing total for that pirate . A week later he gets taken down by another player , my credit goes back up 1.5 million , the bounty hunter gets the other 1.5 million and 50% of any other bounties on this pirate . I have played this game many ways and enjoyed all of them . Getting quite bored reading the same arguments for and against but it really does come down to the loss for the loser and no real stress for the pirate . If you can address those two points then the losers of piracy might actually enjoy the pirate interaction knowing that it's a temporary loss of earnings and will get at least half back and there will be plenty of bounty hunters after this pirate as the reward is high (need better news available to bounty hunters to last known location of pirate) I think this will make everyone happy .
Again apologies if someone has already suggested this exact scenario ! I too am getting bored or reading the same for and against suggestions time and time again . Having said all this I absolutely love the game and the danger that comes with it

 

[Cosmos]

Misleading post or what! from someone who plays 100% in Solo?! It's post like this that once again are tainting peoples views of Open.

P.s I notice you didn't dwell on the accidentally smashing into the station part and losing everything - obvs due to Open PvP also?

Thats what I thought.. School boy error in wiping out ship leaving station, well thats okay. Another players actions result in ship destruction its drama time. Perhaps the OP would prefer a nice game of Chess?

 

[Cosmos]

Recent news from the lead designer taken from https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=101378&page=15&p=1575950#post1575950

See below RE Murder:



Also changes to python ( Nerfs) since it is currently overpowered. So more chance to escape. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=102717&page=3&p=1592391&viewfull=1#post1592391



And one of the coders is currently working on friendly fire. Where some is tolerated against NPC's on your side. How much depends partly on your rep with their faction. Friendly, Allied etc.

So a lot is going to be addressed soon

I seriously wonder sometimes if the developers are playing the same game I am? Not withstanding the overall cool immersion and visuals of the game but the PvE game is seriously wanting.. We can either space truck, shoot at NPCs or go off exploring.. kinda gets old rather quickly. Much of the fun in the game is battling other players, but it seems we can't be having that. *Fun detected?*..apparently we should be just happy grinding.. grind grind grind.

 

[Robzilla]

Thats what I thought.. School boy error in wiping out ship leaving station, well thats okay. Another players actions result in ship destruction its drama time. Perhaps the OP would prefer a nice game of Chess?

Wow, way to completely miss the point of the post