Please fix the Alt F4 exploit

[Dabba]

For what its worth there has been some serious pvp fun going on in Beta Sculptoris if you're looking for it. A few people are combat logging, but just take that as a win when they do it. Its really not worth getting all worked up over. This is just another tempest in a teapot like most of the "burning issues" the forums come up with.

I am a PVP player and do I want to make PVE crowd go away? Get a grip dude... It's not like the PVP crowd is a niche market, just look at wow which has more PVP players than PVE. I don't understand how anyone can imagine farming brainless NPC ships for years to come but I accept such people exist and I certainly don't tell them to go away like you do.
It's more than interesting that these rabid and affected reactions often come from PVErs who always selfishly want the whole game for themselves.

Err... the WoW PvE servers population outnumbers the PvP server populations by more than 3:1. If you are talking about people that play in battlegrounds and arenas that is a totally different beast, as those are consentual and somewhat balanced pvp scenarios. I quite enjoy a variety of PvP games, just not Open world PvP.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

This is what it feels like coming on to the Forum and discussion certain behaviours. Now not all PvP loving players act like this, cowardly hiding in stations and firing dumbfire missiles at t6s, t7s and t9s for no reason other than haha. But as soon as anyone mentions ways of dealing with that...

 

[Mellom]

For what its worth there has been some serious pvp fun going on in Beta Sculptoris if you're looking for it.

Not really, Test MH controls it last time I checked. They have about 3 Condas, 5 Pythons and Vipers, Asps and Cobras there.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

This is what it feels like coming on to the Forum and discussion certain behaviours. Now not all PvP loving players act like this, cowardly hiding in stations and firing dumbfire missiles at t6s, t7s and t9s for no reason other than haha. But as soon as anyone mentions ways of dealing with that...

LOL sadly its too true

 

[Dogoncrook]

From what I understand about the P2P / lite-server system that is in place, particular transactions are authenticated with the server, e.g. purchase or sale of commodities, modules, ships, etc.. The transaction log would allow Frontier to examine a commander's history to check whether unexplainable changes had been made.

True but they could add a ton of palladium to their hold infinitely and sell it over and over. I guess they may still be able to track it but if the cheater is smart about it its gonna be hard to catch.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

You're probably right - planetary landings we had in Frontier and whilst they're nice, they're not going to save the game at all. Not even sure what the point of the walk about thing is going to be without there being gameplay for that too. Just being able to walk is pointless on its own and without deeper content, there really is nothing to do.

Speaking of boarding how are they gonna handle a legitimate disconnect or alt-F4 when you've boarded another ship lol.

 

[Robert Maynard]

True but they could add a ton of palladium to their hold infinitely and sell it over and over. I guess they may still be able to track it but if the cheater is smart about it its gonna be hard to catch.

If there is no transaction in the server log corresponding to the purchase / scooping / refining of each tonne of palladium sold then the memory hack could be detected - especially if each cargo canister had a unique ID.

 

[Flyinpiranha]

I am a PVP player and do I want to make PVE crowd go away? Get a grip dude... It's not like the PVP crowd is a niche market, just look at wow which has more PVP players than PVE. I don't understand how anyone can imagine farming brainless NPC ships for years to come but I accept such people exist and I certainly don't tell them to go away like you do.
It's more than interesting that these rabid and affected reactions often come from PVErs who always selfishly want the whole game for themselves.

Haha, no. That's just not true. Every major expansion focuses way more on PVE, there is more PVE content than anything in that game. It IS the epitome of PVE. You're just making things up.

And yes, maybe I am a bit selfish. I have played a plethora of PVP games. I see the communities, I see how it poisons the PVE side of the game with that never-ending "balance" quest. I play PVP-specific games if I want PVP. I don't try and pigeonhole a specific game to mold into what I want of it. I want this PVE-focused game that is ED to continue on that path.

 

[Jex =TE=]

T
Speaking of boarding how are they gonna handle a legitimate disconnect or alt-F4 when you've boarded another ship lol.

I don't know and don't really care either. If people have net connections that bad then they shouldn't play online games or complain when they suffer the consequences of that. My new net provider has disconnected maybe 3 or 4 times for a minute since I had it 6 weeks ago which is way more than I like considering it's BT but if it happens to me at a crucial point, it's not ED's fault or problem - I'll live with it.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Speaking of boarding how are they gonna handle a legitimate disconnect or alt-F4 when you've boarded another ship lol.

"All I have to do is pull the plug... you have to watch her die."

 

[Daffan]

Haha, no. That's just not true. Every major expansion focuses way more on PVE, there is more PVE content than anything in that game. It IS the epitome of PVE. You're just making things up.

And yes, maybe I am a bit selfish. I have played a plethora of PVP games. I see the communities, I see how it poisons the PVE side of the game with that never-ending "balance" quest. I play PVP-specific games if I want PVP. I don't try and pigeonhole a specific game to mold into what I want of it. I want this PVE-focused game that is ED to continue on that path.

It's actually 55% pve and 45% pvp or even higher. Or so the statistics released by Blizz said. So you are a little right

However, you are making a big mistake in assuming things about the expansions

In WoW, of course they spend more time on PVE content.

1) You need to level from 90 to 100 for example, so they need leveling PvE

2) Raid bosses need UNIQUE abilities each time, they need to be scripted and new ones released or else people get bored. Players don't need scripts in PvP. Each player is unique and can make their own moves.

3) PVP, release a battleground / arena and players can fight on it for 200000 times. Look at DUST 2 in Counter Strike, 1 map, played for 15 years.....

PVP is way more sandbox / player involved (As the name implies) and needs way less "guiding hand" themepark stuff, especially in WoW it needs new raids every 4-6 months to keep people happy.

Err... the WoW PvE servers population outnumbers the PvP server populations by more than 3:1. If you are talking about people that play in battlegrounds and arenas that is a totally different beast, as those are consentual and somewhat balanced pvp scenarios. I quite enjoy a variety of PvP games, just not Open world PvP.

Only because you cant get PVP Gear or any carrot on a stick items from world PvP.

still doesn't help that PVP is 45-55% of the playerbase over raiding scripted bosses.

 

[kelticfury]

All they really need to do to fix alt-f4 is make pressing the key combination invalidate your eligibility for the triple elite competition.

 

[Daffan]

All they really need to do to fix alt-f4 is make pressing the key combination invalidate your eligibility for the triple elite competition.

Nobody cares about that competition, and the people who do play 23/7 or already closing in on it / have it.

People already have setups that instantly disable their internet, don't even need alt-f4

 

[Flyinpiranha]

It's actually 55% pve and 45% pvp or even higher. Or so the statistics released by Blizz said. So you are a little right

However, you are making a big mistake in assuming things about the expansions

In WoW, of course they spend more time on PVE content.

1) You need to level from 90 to 100 for example, so they need leveling PvE

2) Raid bosses need UNIQUE abilities each time, they need to be scripted and new ones released or else people get bored. Players don't need scripts in PvP. Each player is unique and can make their own moves.

3) PVP, release a battleground / arena and players can fight on it for 200000 times. Look at DUST 2 in Counter Strike, 1 map, played for 15 years.....

PVP is way more sandbox / player involved (As the name implies) and needs way less "guiding hand" themepark stuff, especially in WoW it needs new raids every 4-6 months to keep people happy.



Only because you cant get PVP Gear or any carrot on a stick items from world PvP.

still doesn't help that PVP is 45-55% of the playerbase over raiding scripted bosses.

I won't argue with the success of some PVP games, I've played them. I think I played Quake and UT even when better options came out, I played Arena in WoW. Warhammer, Aion, currently playing Guild Wars 2 off and on. I get it, it does keep people interested, But people also still play Tetris for 30 years. There's plenty of SP games that people still play and PVE content is still the driving force of the most MMOs. I promise you and would bet you $50 that if WoW released a PVP-only expansion it would sell a lot less than any of the others, but this is very off topic and I apologize for derailing. In fact I don't think you should use WoW as an example because if PVP was such a selling point you wouldn't see subs drop so much after a few months of expansions and then huge jumps when they launch. Wouldn't they stay consistent? But I digress.

I don't really see a problem with the Alt-F4 "exploit". It only brings to light the issues of insurance cost and the complete lack of risk for the attacker vs the "prey" ... and I say "prey" because let's be honest, most traders aren't geared or have ships that can take on a combat-spec'd ship. But for just regular fighting in combat zones, yeah, I see the problem ... to a point. This isn't a serious PVP focused game, It's definitely an oversight on their part but I don't particularly think it's game-changing/breaking and was just voicing my opinion.

I didn't mean to come off as hostile and upon reading I did. For that I apologize.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I want to like this game, I wish I could recommend it to my old guidies who have stuck with me since the beginning of Ultima Online, Asherons Call, Shadowbane, EvE, SWG and Darkfall. But I will never be able to convince them that this is a serious PvP game even though it is advertised as one. In none of the games I mentioned was it possible to simply escape defeat with the press of a button. This is the problem we have.

Ah, right. You're a dedicated PvPer, I understand better now. You must have missed the memo. This game is not PvP focused. Encounters between players were designed to be rare and meaningful

 

[Mellom]

People already have setups that instantly disable their internet, don't even need alt-f4

Yeah, thats called the power switch on your router. Its about 40cm from my right hand. Not that I use it because to hell with those cowards.

 

[Drakkir]

Yeah, thats called the power switch on your router. Its about 40cm from my right hand. Not that I use it because to hell with those cowards.

That's one method but there are numerous others you can macro... To have the so called "Oh Crap!" button.

I don't think that FD Trapped out the Alt-F4 because they knew that even if they did, there are still so many easy ways around it, that it doesn't matter. As a p2p game, it's just "Not worth it" in reality.

ON A LIGHTER Note: I'm just enjoying it for what it is, having fun, have gladly told my friends about playing it and said it was fun for what it was. I personally don't want the pvp'ers to leave the game, they fill their roles, I do believe more traders should make the switch to solo / group to make their money, then go play in Open with combat ships and join the pvp fray. It just makes honest/logical sense to me.

Being a p2p game it has its limitations, I recognize and can live with that. If someone alt-f4'd to escape me, then ok... I won On to the next. No reason to cry over spilled milk.

Still having fun! That's all I can ask for!

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

You know, it's not such a hard thing programmatically to disabled the Alt-F4 button on a Window... It's just intercepting the event and cancelling the operation.

 

[Briarée]

right, and that will throw you BOTH out of the instance. Next time you're in the same place, assuming your opponent is still on the blocked IP, the game will fall back to relaying through the TURN server and you'll still have a link. Block the TURN server and you can't connect to an instance at all.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



I got my adjustment tool right here... Don't mess with the cold crew.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



ROFL. No. If it impacts your credit balance or your save state, the transaction goes through Frontier's server, If the server don't agree you go splat.

thanks then for confirming what you are denying since the start, namely that ther IS a central server to hold / authenticate part of the game.

now extend it's services, and magic, you actually CAN figure out a way to keep logoffski's ships in spae for a given amount of time.

see, was it that hard?

 

[Cat_Astrophe]

I'm sort of curious, guys... would it be possible to have the server poll the DC comps router to see if it was still operational and assign kill credits to the other player in the case that it was? That eliminates power outage and net problems as the cause. That might cause some people to DC The router instead and a repeating pattern of that type of abuse might be grounds for a temp ban as a result.
.
Be nice, I'm a hardware guy, not software. It seems that should be possible, but whether it would be practical is my uncertainty.

 

[Drakkir]

You know, it's not such a hard thing programmatically to disabled the Alt-F4 button on a Window... It's just intercepting the event and cancelling the operation.

And they already have the programming in game its what translates keypresses into ship movement, though as a system call it's slightly more difficult but by all means not "hard". It was left in on purpose is the only logical reasoning that I can come up with... Hence my previous diatribe.

No biggie though not really, it is what it is.