Mile Wide Inch Deep - Not a Complete Experience. Not a complete game

[RedeyeJedi]

Must agree with the title despite having played various Elite games since the late 80's. For me the general game engine is pretty good as it isn't too demanding on most current pc systems 'off the shelf' in the last 24 months despite being ready for a full 4k screen resolution when its finally supported in mainstream user hardware that doesn't cost the earth!

We just need some content to add depth though flying with various friends on TS allows us to make our own little scenarios and content especially when there are certain players that seem to think they personally own whole star systems which is one opinion myself and friends are determined to change as we have plenty of time, players and guns besides. For now this is keeping me engaged until the DLC drops later on as I really am eager to see what has already been planned.

The only real disappointment for me was the lack of an account wipe after gamma release as I had personally held off playing until retail release. There have been some painful mistakes made by FDEV which I won't dig into other than to say crowd funding clients seem to be a rather fickle bunch imo. I say fickle as I see recurring themes here and on other game forums that were crowd funded, seems to me a small percentage of crowd funders are happy to spam forums with complaints to coerce developers into changing things in the game with little thought to the bigger picture. For now I think the game needs padding out a whole lot in various ways to keep new players engaged instead of wondering how to play the game to advance to the next ship or rank, as such I feel the game is still at the mid-top end of Beta quality due to lack of content and the odd bug that still arises all too frequently. Bugs and all too early public release seems to be a recurring aspect of even triple A game titles with 100s of millions of £-$'s budget though it doesn't mean some of us don't notice though to put this in perspective FDEV has got where they are with a comparably tiny budget.

Worst case is the whole open play game will fall apart and leave ED licensing private servers to individuals so they can carry on playing leaving the public to add new content with reskins and missions which some on here will be all to familiar with from other sandbox type games.

For now making my own content with friends and those intent on owning certain areas or trade routes as it can be a whole lot of fun, I will agree with others though that its generally a case of too soon a public retail release and that I would have thought a beta state until this summer would have been more realistic so as not to induce disappointment and disillusion in newcomers to the game.

 

[Skellen]

Must agree with the title despite having played various Elite games since the late 80's. For me the general game engine is pretty good as it isn't too demanding on most current pc systems 'off the shelf' in the last 24 months despite being ready for a full 4k screen resolution when its finally supported in mainstream user hardware that doesn't cost the earth!

We just need some content to add depth though flying with various friends on TS allows us to make our own little scenarios and content especially when there are certain players that seem to think they personally own whole star systems which is one opinion myself and friends are determined to change as we have plenty of time, players and guns besides. For now this is keeping me engaged until the DLC drops later on as I really am eager to see what has already been planned.

The only real disappointment for me was the lack of an account wipe after gamma release as I had personally held off playing until retail release. There have been some painful mistakes made by FDEV which I won't dig into other than to say crowd funding clients seem to be a rather fickle bunch imo. I say fickle as I see recurring themes here and on other game forums that were crowd funded, seems to me a small percentage of crowd funders are happy to spam forums with complaints to coerce developers into changing things in the game with little thought to the bigger picture. For now I think the game needs padding out a whole lot in various ways to keep new players engaged instead of wondering how to play the game to advance to the next ship or rank, as such I feel the game is still at the mid-top end of Beta quality due to lack of content and the odd bug that still arises all too frequently. Bugs and all too early public release seems to be a recurring aspect of even triple A game titles with 100s of millions of £-$'s budget though it doesn't mean some of us don't notice though to put this in perspective FDEV has got where they are with a comparably tiny budget.

Worst case is the whole open play game will fall apart and leave ED licensing private servers to individuals so they can carry on playing leaving the public to add new content with reskins and missions which some on here will be all to familiar with from other sandbox type games.

For now making my own content with friends and those intent on owning certain areas or trade routes as it can be a whole lot of fun, I will agree with others though that its generally a case of too soon a public retail release and that I would have thought a beta state until this summer would have been more realistic so as not to induce disappointment and disillusion in newcomers to the game.

Well said Cmdr, have some rep +

 

[DextersIndignation]

Well this is the most sane comment I've seen so far in this 'thread', and the one I most agree with. I worry that Frontier have shot themselves in the foot here, by not giving the game another six months to a year to develop. And it's not as if that is hindsight - it was being said back in Alpha/Premium Beta when speculation about release around the 30th anniversary was running rife.
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To complain that Elite is shallow, consists of doing the same repetitive missions, the universe is empty and consists of the same coloured balls over and over again is a valid argument. However, the same criticisms have been levelled at the three previous Elite games and they were all moderately popular, well loved (sequels less so than the original) and (at least partially) convinced people to back this iteration. So why are people surprised over more of the same? Yes, the depth of the missions could be a lot greater, and I'm not too convinced that Frontier's attempts to corral players into providing their own content based on the current flawed mission system will work, but the core content of all of the Elites has been space trucking and the 'grind', with mining, bounty hunting, piracy, whatever, secondary. <Shrug!> Unfortunately, complex missions may never appear, especially as the p2p matchmaking in the game can't really guarantee that a) we are able follow targets with impunity through multiple mission stages and multiple systems without a glitch, or b) keep groups of players in the same instances (yet?).
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So, in the absence of decent missions, what can be done? Personally, I think making Anarchies a lot more dangerous, but certain goods more lucrative, interdictions less escapable, police less capable in scanning to improve smuggling, rebalancing low level fines (should not result in a death sentence) vs. fines for murder (definitely should), separating solo online and open characters completely, and either rebalancing ship costs to bring the high end down (under the assumption that people are going to lose a lot more through ship and cargo destruction overall) would go a long way to renew flagging interest for a lot of people. Now someone's going to come in and say 'you're just after forcing pvp on people', 'don't make me play the game your way' and 'traders will just flee to solo' - well yes, I am. I've completely changed my opinion since backing the game for single player only. Heck, I'm coming dangerously close to believing that, for the game to succeed in the end, private groups need removing and everyone should be forced into open, to level the playing field, stop diluting dev effort, and get everyone back on the same page (sorry people with bad internet connections - don't mean to penalise you - but...) As the AI aren't cutting it, I think we need the danger back.
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<Points at the original games> They were difficult, traders had a hard time in anarchies, some fights were unwinnable (without save scumming or glitching stardreamer) - can we have that back in this iteration please?

Dude...
You might be right.
I wonder what the average number of players is now? I wonder what it will be when they need to sell the first expansion? I wonder If the FD staff are gonna apply for mortgages? Though The open need to made more profitable, the issue will be the cheaters who may well be the only ones left playing.

 

[skypine27]

My short take:

1. Was fun for the first 3 ships, sidewinder eagle viper. NPC Bounty hunting and PvP were awesome during those times.
2. Becomes a hideous trading grind best done in solo play beyond the Viper/Cobra. Once you realize how many hours you would have to spend NPC killing to get a Python, you are forced to switch to trading.
3. My original friends list was 12 and our ED Teamspeak channel had multiple players in it, almost any hour of the day. Now not one of them logs on ever and the TS channel is devoid of any people.

The game amazed me at the beginning but lost its interest faster than any "multi" player game I've played recently.

I think the type of players that will play ED long term are very loyal and will defend it to the death, which is great. However, I also think this type of player is very small in number and with the lack of micro transactions, lack of subscription fees, I worry about the funding of future content. A one time purchase price in a game that is comprised mostly of anti social solo play space geeks would be fine if the game were sold as single player ONLY and thus didnt require server costs etc associated with an MMO. But FD didnt release it that way.

I worry, how likely is a solo player to buy a ship skin pack knowing he, nor any other person, will ever even see what it looks like (except the obscure view he gets of his own ship in the ship yard)? I spent a lot of money on some online games. WarThunder. Guild Wars 2. World of Tanks. Heroes and Generals. A bit on Star Trek online. I have a track record of spending money beyond the purchase price.. I spent 5 bucks on ED (above the purchase price) on the American Flag Viper skin (but again, I played open play exclusively and anarchy nav beacon camped and PvPed, knowing other players would see me up close). But I haven't been encouraged to spend any more, and the game has been out since December 16th. If they cant squeeze 5 or 10 bucks a month out of me for some cool stuff, that spells trouble for the games financial outlook.

I hope it does well, not because I will continue playing much, but because I can tell the dev's poured their heart and soul into it and they have families and mortgages and car payments and everything else. I want them to earn a good living from their work.

I guess time will tell what happens to this very unique game.

 

[DextersIndignation]

My short take:

1. Was fun for the first 3 ships, sidewinder eagle viper. NPC Bounty hunting and PvP were awesome during those times.
2. Becomes a hideous trading grind best done in solo play beyond the Viper/Cobra. Once you realize how many hours you would have to spend NPC killing to get a Python, you are forced to switch to trading.
3. My original friends list was 12 and our ED Teamspeak channel had multiple players in it, almost any hour of the day. Now not one of them logs on ever and the TS channel is devoid of any people.

The game amazed me at the beginning but lost its interest faster than any "multi" player game I've played recently.

I think the type of players that will play ED long term are very loyal and will defend it to the death, which is great. However, I also think this type of player is very small in number and with the lack of micro transactions, lack of subscription fees, I worry about the funding of future content. A one time purchase price in a game that is comprised mostly of anti social solo play space geeks would be fine if the game were sold as single player ONLY and thus didnt require server costs etc associated with an MMO. But FD didnt release it that way.

I worry, how likely is a solo player to buy a ship skin pack knowing he, nor any other person, will ever even see what it looks like (except the obscure view he gets of his own ship in the ship yard)? I spent a lot of money on some online games. WarThunder. Guild Wars 2. World of Tanks. Heroes and Generals. A bit on Star Trek online. I have a track record of spending money beyond the purchase price.. I spent 5 bucks on ED (above the purchase price) on the American Flag Viper skin (but again, I played open play exclusively and anarchy nav beacon camped and PvPed, knowing other players would see me up close). But I haven't been encouraged to spend any more, and the game has been out since December 16th. If they cant squeeze 5 or 10 bucks a month out of me for some cool stuff, that spells trouble for the games financial outlook.

I hope it does well, not because I will continue playing much, but because I can tell the dev's poured their heart and soul into it and they have families and mortgages and car payments and everything else. I want them to earn a good living from their work.

I guess time will tell what happens to this very unique game.

I hate to use SerB (WoT) again, but can you imagine his reply if one of his devs came up with the idea of a paint job the player could not see? His trusty baseball bat would need a good clean afterwards!

 

[korsobar]

To complain that Elite is shallow, consists of doing the same repetitive missions, the universe is empty and consists of the same coloured balls over and over again is a valid argument. However, the same criticisms have been levelled at the three previous Elite games and they were all moderately popular, well loved (sequels less so than the original) and (at least partially) convinced people to back this iteration. So why are people surprised over more of the same?

To be frank, I would never have spent $75 if they had told me they were building a feature incomplete reskin of a 1980s era game. I have rose-colored glasses about a lot of games I played growing up, like nethack, Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, TIE Fighter, Mechwarrior series, etc, but I know for sure I would never spend triple-A game price to replay any of them with modern graphics. In fact, many of the great games of my youth can be had for $10 and they are modded up to modern resolutions by aficionados for free! Even frontier's devs have stated that things like mining are bare bones implementations. I doubt they are satisfied with a game that doesn't reflect any improvements on 1980s games other than UI and graphics.

EDIT: So what I am trying to say is that I reject the 'lower your expectations, I did' argument. Let's just not.

 

[medwyn]

My ED history so far:
I decided to wait for the release instead of buying myself into the Alpha/Beta stage. My reason was simple: I loved the original Elite and wanted to get the full experience rather than burning out in the buggy pre-constructed phase. I even kept myself away from any forums and youtube vids to inhale everything ED has to offer directly.
On 16 Dec I let my kid part of my soul feast - I was blown away by the graphics and sounds and the vastness of this universe. Flying these ships is really immersive and at the beginning I enjoyed so much discovering all those tiny wonderful elements of the game which had no description in any manuals.
Had my big moments: earning my first 200 credits in the Sidey by trading, killing the first interdictor, buying a cobra, visiting Sol.
On the way I could not avoid to recognize that fundamental contents are missing and some of the existing ones are bugged and better not to use them. Then I started researching and the more I find the more I see no reliable future of my ED gameplay: there's no consistence in all this and due to a very poor dev decision (the p2p architecture) ED has its limits not to fulfill the vision and what was advertised.
ED is not a multiplayer game nor solo: both miss some very fundamental features. There's no cooperation (it's even a lottery to find each other in space with friends which I have never seen before in multiplayer games) and there are no scaling contents to keep a solo player happy - only the experience of flying a ship and shoot sometimes with no coherence. I'm a '84-er but I know what standards I can expect in 2015.

I would also be happy to pay money to get this game rolling but there's no subscription fee (which would give a true feadback from the playerbase so the devs could see if they are going in the desired way overall or not) and I guess buying T-shirts and ship painjobs which I can not see is pointless. Especially because the more I see how the game is curated and developed, the less I believe it'll take me to where it promised me.
I'll fly around a bit once in a while in the future and see if anything happens towards a really great experience but just checking the forums tells me if logging in is worth or not really. So far ED could not advance to be the game I feel itchy to come back to when I have time.

 

[Devil's Refugee]

(I'm writing this listening to the "Escape from Cloud City" track from the Empire Strikes Back OST and a cup of tea)

I remember saving for Elite 1984, playing it after my homework and just losing myself in something that I'd never encountered before for months. Fast forward and I've tried playing the old game but I've learned over time you just don't revisit memories. I remember saving for an Amiga 500 (I think it was anyway) and following sporadic news articles about E2 being made. I even collected the news snippets in magazines. When it came out I was a little older and my gaming tastes had changed but I had a soft spot for the game. I played it but not for as long as I did with the original. First Encounters is something I'd rather not remember because it was an absolute mess for me. And now we have Elite Dangerous, and it's reminding me of First Encounters; buggy, messy, an overt focus on a 'galactic simulator' with no content or real engagement, and I'm left thinking whether Frontier have really learnt anything from their history, or indeed any other game dev studio.

I've traded up to a Type-7, been quite comfortable and not seen it as a relentless pursuit, but then markets don't fluctuate so the Gold and Minerals run I had never changed. I did bulletin board missions to rank up with Alliance factions but I grew tired of the carbon-copy style, there was no emotional connection with what I was doing, and definitely not enough transparency over the effect of my actions (simple stat counters and coloured triangles don't really cut it as engagement.)

So I switched to mining for literally a couple of hours. To say mining needs attention as a gameplay mechanic is an overstatement. It would have been simpler to drop it altogether and introduce it when it actually was an engaging activity.

I've spent a week exploring in the abyss, I've seen some amazing sights and system configurations, a black hole, neutron and proto-stars, nebula backdrops, NGC 7822. After a week I came back, sold my data and then decided to wander out again. Only this time it had lost its veneer. I jumped only 600ly this time before heading in because it just became...well, boring. Searching for life bearing worlds or an Earth-like planet no longer held any wonder because the gameplay was now point and click and wait.

Point and click and wait. I think exploration right now has had the most love and attention poured into it, but then it gives me a sinking feeling that this has become a pet project for an astrophysicist and not a game developer. v1.1 has added lovely shading and lights to planets, and whilst it makes everything prettier it's like holding a conversation with a vacuous supermodel. No substance (apart from the silicone)

Now I'm sitting in an anarchy system for bounty hunting and it's the most enjoyable aspect of the game but for how long I don't know. There is no real connection to the game and its universe. There is a complete breakdown of engagement with the player at times. The background lore from GalNet is nigh on pointless really. I stopped reading it a long time ago (that whole sense of First Encounters again).

I know how to use my imagination before anyone jumps in, I have kids, I still play with lego for crying out loud (lol), I read books. But there's using your imagination to create character lore and giving your pilot a story, and then there's using your imagination to completely fill the galactic-size black hole of content for Frontier.

I find the lack of feedback and acknowledgement from Frontier about their mistakes and the game sometimes baffling, it reminds me culturally of certain IT outsourcing companies; when challenged they climb into a hole and hope it blows over. I visit the forums and just see 'Please nerf this', 'Why did you bork that', and Frontier jumping to every minor complaint if it snowballs with enough pages on the post. I can already see a 'Nerf the Viper' thread coming now that the Python has been reduced. The background simulator, engaging content, mining, instancing, comms, Wings, these are all more a priority to keep players interested and engaged in the game more than whether XYZ ship can fly faster than ABC. Frontier needs to keep it's focus.

I realise it's early days for an online game that has years ahead of it (I hope) but I feel it was rushed to release for financial reasons and to beat the queue of space games coming this year. Frontier may be a small studio in comparison to others but they clearly didn't learn any lessons from others who have come before them. There's a whole air and feel of smoke and mirrors around the game's inner workings, and I get the sense they're over their heads with an online multiplayer experience. This feels like we're still in a paid-for Beta. And when those other games come out there will be the inevitable drop in players who want to try them out, but Frontier need to deliver something pretty soon to give them reasons to come back. That's the main worry. There is nothing right now.

Someone once said on here "I paid for modern version of 1984 Elite" and was happy with it. Fine, that's your ambition for the game, but 30 years have passed, and you cannot release a game in this state in 2014, or indeed with a backward nostalgic vision. Trading on 84'ers to be your marketing department was a bad idea.

To make things worse, I love the game despite being a vocal detractor because I recognise the potential. I'm vocal because I want Frontier to listen. Listen and act. And succeed. And before anyone complains or flames about my experiences and comments, I personally secured David Braben an interview with Discovery Channel Space which takes place this week. I care about this game and my investment in it, I want it to succeed but for crying out loud Frontier don't take the p-iss and ignore the glaring issues, then distract us with sparkly lights on planets and stickers on ships.

 

[Lobstris]

EDIT: So what I am trying to say is that I reject the 'lower your expectations, I did' argument. Let's just not.

Fair enough. I did lower my expectations. A lot. (Well I had low to zero expectations till the single player combat Alpha was released in Dec 2013, then throughout last year my expectations rose dangerously high to mid-year, then have slowly settled back down to Earth when I realised that the final product would just be a reskin of a 1984 game that I was very happy with, with mediocre multiplayer bolted on. Yes, games moved on since the 80's and 90's, but not always necessarily for the best.
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*EDIT* I also quite like the grind and repetition in the game as well - I get annoyed at games that allow you to be everything within 20 hours of play, I actually like games that take a bit of grind, feel a bit like a job to play, but represent a job I enjoy. Dunno how many hours I've put into E: D over the past year, but its probably easily past the 500 mark, and that's with a lot less actual 'content' than now (e.g. no player interdictions whatsoever). However, a lot of those times we were in either completely pvp arenas testing combat, or small bubbles were you were constantly tripping over players in FSD or normal space.
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Perhaps we all were made blind by our 'rose-tinted' flight googles back then, and stuck with it for the ride and in the expectation of more. But, strangely enough, I still really like the game - just want more. And for it still to have enough people around to make the expansions viable. I've got a huge backlog of other games I've bought or downloaded that I'm not playing because of Elite. Oh, crud, I'm a fanboi aren't I?

 

[Treble]

My honeymoon period with the game has also worn off. Once you've pirated someone, you've pirated them all. Once you've hunted someone, you've hunted them all. Etc. The past two days have been my ship drifting next to the station while I did something else.

Game needs a lot more.

 

[almostpilot]

My honeymoon period with the game has also worn off. Once you've pirated someone, you've pirated them all. Once you've hunted someone, you've hunted them all. Etc. The past two days have been my ship drifting next to the station while I did something else.

Game needs a lot more.

And what the game needs is not necessarily anything the FD foresees in the next updates in content term. Bug fixes yes, are welcome.

 

[Sashenka]

I didnt read the main rant, just the heading. But in general I dont like coming here..too many whiners and malcontents. I enjoy it more when I stay away..

And there here you are, with us

While content is welcome, I would like the galaxy to feel a little bit more alive and dynamic. Maybe some voice acting for important characters, radio chatter around stations persistent NPC. Now it feels randomly generated each time you drop in real space. I am more of the wait and see school of thought. I already spent the money on ED and won't be getting it back (I didn't try btw) so apart from waiting, there is not much else we can do. If X:Rebirth could do it, I'm pretty FD can.

 

[jamotide]

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To complain that Elite is shallow, consists of doing the same repetitive missions, the universe is empty and consists of the same coloured balls over and over again is a valid argument. However, the same criticisms have been levelled at the three previous Elite games and they were all moderately popular, well loved (sequels less so than the original) and (at least partially) convinced people to back this iteration. So why are people surprised over more of the same?

Because this is a MMO. In single player games it is ok to play 50 hours for the experience once every few years and be happy about it. But with MMOs people want to build something up and play thousands of hours with it.

 

[Fjordmonkey]

Because this is a MMO. In single player games it is ok to play 50 hours for the experience once every few years and be happy about it. But with MMOs people want to build something up and play thousands of hours with it.

To view ED as an MMO is something of a misnomer, methinks. I've never though of it as such, but then again, I might be odd in that (and many other regards).

To me ED is a singleplayer-game that can be played cooperatively. It's a sandbox, basically, where you create your own fun. I see people talking about having too little to do, which can be understandable in some regards, but through that statement I do wonder what people was really expecting when they picked the game up.

My goal? Become the single richest in the game, discover as many of the systems it contains as I can, and reach triple-Elite status. Do I plan on doing those things quickly? Nah, why should I?

 

[NeilF]

My goal? Become the single richest in the game, discover as many of the systems it contains as I can, and reach triple-Elite status. Do I plan on doing those things quickly? Nah, why should I?

Can I ask why having 2bCR will be more fun for you than having 1.999999999bCR?

Can I ask why having your name against X systems will be more fun than having it against X-1, or X-2 systems?

Can I ask why having "Elite" in three places on a screen will be more fun than having it in 2?



I know this all sounds terribly sarcastic. It's really not intended to be. Unless you find the gameplay fun getting to these goals, what's the point? Surely those goals are meaningless otherwise, and almost counter productive really?

To me ED is a singleplayer-game that can be played cooperatively. It's a sandbox, basically, where you create your own fun.

You can only have the "fun" it allows you to have. For example, I take up a mission to kill a pirate. My idea of fun might be to follow and protect a cargo ship I've been told he is going to attack. However, personally, it's not much fun flying around USS' until the computer hits a random number that means the pirate simply randomly spawns there. *rinse repeat over and over*

Can you see how some people might expect a certain level of depth/complexity to deliver their "fun"?

 

[Sashenka]

To view ED as an MMO is something of a misnomer, methinks. I've never though of it as such, but then again, I might be odd in that (and many other regards).

To me ED is a singleplayer-game that can be played cooperatively. It's a sandbox, basically, where you create your own fun. I see people talking about having too little to do, which can be understandable in some regards, but through that statement I do wonder what people was really expecting when they picked the game up.

My goal? Become the single richest in the game, discover as many of the systems it contains as I can, and reach triple-Elite status. Do I plan on doing those things quickly? Nah, why should I?

Blame the PR department for that.

 

[jamotide]

To view ED as an MMO is something of a misnomer, methinks. I've never though of it as such, but then again, I might be odd in that (and many other regards).

Yes you are. Braben clearly said that it is technically a MMO in newletter 50, in response to the admittedly vague question "is ED a MMO". On other occasion he called it "Halo in MMO form". So it is not a misnomer to call it a MMO.

 

[SpiralRazor]

Yo, gamers, don't use car analogies, they are always bad.

Because you dont understand cars? Its not even about the CAR itself anyway....geez...

 

[Lobstris]

Because this is a MMO. In single player games it is ok to play 50 hours for the experience once every few years and be happy about it. But with MMOs people want to build something up and play thousands of hours with it.

I hate to say it, but it's not really an MMO is it?, except in the very loose sense of the word. In that respect I think the game was borderline mis-advertised, mis-represented and mis-sold. If the original kickstarter had said MMO I wouldn't have backed. I originally wanted a single-player game that I play for thousands of hours and build something up (like Morrowind, Skyrim & The Original Elites). Now in fact, single or multi I was expecting this to be pretty much the main game I was playing this year - full stop. It might not work out like that as the systems and AI modelling isn't deep enough, and proper 'MMO'-esque traits are desperately needed to salvage things.

 

[Fjordmonkey]

Can I ask why having 2bCR will be more fun for you than having 1.999999999bCR?

Because 1: I'll have fun getting there, and 2: I'm an OCD'ing about such things

Can I ask why having your name against X systems will be more fun than having it against X-1, or X-2 systems?

Because 1: I'll have fun getting there, and 2: I'm an OCD'ing about such things

Can I ask why having "Elite" in three places on a screen will be more fun than having it in 2?

Because 1: I'll have fun getting there, and 2: I'm an OCD'ing about such things

I know this all sounds terribly sarcastic. It's really not intended to be. Unless you find the gameplay fun getting to these goals, what's the point? Surely those goals are meaningless otherwise, and almost counter productive really?

Again, maybe I'm just odd when I think that the game is fun enough for what it is: a timesink to play for a few hours and then move on. It's something I use to wind down after work, to get the hustle & bustle of my day out of my head. Sure, there's lots of menial things I could go do or other games, MMO's or not, that I could play in order to wind down, but ED is my kinda game. Besides, it's very much something that reminds me of Frontier, which I remember fondly.

You can only have the "fun" it allows you to have. For example, I take up a mission to kill a pirate. My idea of fun might be to follow and protect a cargo ship I've been told he is going to attack. However, personally, it's not much fun flying around USS' until the computer hits a random number that means the pirate simply randomly spawns there. *rinse repeat over and over*

For some that's not enough in a game. For me it's enough, but then again, I take pleasure in the small things in the game. A quick kill, a USS with some juicy cargo in it that I can pick up and make a killing on etc. That's enough for me to be entertained. Your mileage, of course, both may and will differ. Besides, I never plan on making it to any goal quickly. Why? Because I don't care enough about it to stress getting there. The journey is more fun for me than arriving at the end.

Can you see how some people might expect a certain level of depth/complexity to deliver their "fun"?

Of course I can. Never said that I couldn't, and I'd be a fool if I did. But then again, I still think people have misunderstood a bit what Elite Dangerous really is: an updated version of the old Elite from '84. Now, is that enough for quite a few people? Obviously not. One only needs to take one look at these boards, and you'll see it pretty damn fast. Would I like a game that has elements from lets say Freelancer, Wing Commander Privateer etc? Sure, but I'll also take what I can get.

First and foremost, playing far too many MMO's over the years has taught me two things in exquisite detail: Patience, and to get what fun I can with what I currently have.

And when it stops being fun, I'll walk off. And maybe keep an eye on things just for good measure in case it became interesting again.