The Shield discussion thread

[Vyvian]

Why? You can easily make between 200,000 and 500,000 cr/hour bounty hunting - that will easily put you in a fully fit cobra - or indeed an asp in a couple of weeks assuming you only play an hour or two a day. I don't think a couple weeks worth of ship progression to take on any threat in the game is too much to ask of a combat pilot.

But you're point before was that a Cobra shouldn't be able to kill an Elite Anaconda and now you're saying I would only need to bounty hunt for a week to buy a fully kitted one so that I can experience all the content in the game i.e. destroying Elite Anacondas?


I am happy with the current combat earnings because all you need is a few million to experience the game, so apparently here we agree.

If Elite Anacondas were made so difficult that only players in Pythons or Clippers can defeat them, then many players would simply stop playing before they grinded to that point by combat alone.

 

[Quineloe]

Ring farming has been removed and this is where the larger ships had the advantage in collecting bounties.

And personally I never take my Combat Clipper into combat zones as the chance of getting rammed far outweighs any monetry gain.


As for PvP, I fought a lot of ships in Beta in a Viper. Caused many a Python and a few Clippers to flee. (Not many people were flying Clippers in Beta cause they didn't get discounted.)

Never destroyed any of them, except one Python pilot who wanted to stick through to the very end, but I did 'win' these fights.

have you been to a RES yet? They only fixed a bugged instant respawn, there are still pirates at RES.

I also made a lot of profit in conflict zones in my clipper, maybe stop boosting all the time?

 

[Vyvian]

Still very possible but more challenging. I am not an ace either, as Vyvian can attest to

You're still a damn fine pilot. I'm sure one day you'll even be known as Elite.

 

[PotatoOverdose]

But you're point before was that a Cobra shouldn't be able to kill an Elite Anaconda and now you're saying I would only need to bounty hunt for a week to buy a fully kitted one so that I can experience all the content in the game i.e. destroying Elite Anacondas?


I am happy with the current combat earnings because all you need is a few million to experience the game, so apparently here we agree.

If Elite Anacondas were made so difficult that only players in Pythons or Clippers can defeat them, then many players would simply stop playing before they grinded to that point by combat alone.

At say 2 hours a day, 400,000 credits an hour you can affor a reasonably fitted asp in 2 weeks - combat pilots need not limit themselves to vipers or cobras. Your point here was that you should be able to experience the entire combat game in a viper. I respectfully disagree.

Likewise, you don't need to kill Elite Anacondas to make a living off of bounty hunting. Cobras routinely have bounties in the 20,000 to 30,000 ranges, as do Fed. Dropships. Likewise, I believe conflict zones have had combat bonds increased significantly in 1.1, I believe it's a 25,000 minimum per combat bond in a conflict zone.

My point is, no pilot needs to be able to kill elite anacondas with the pea shooter they get in their first week of play. There are many ways to make credits for a combat pilot that don't involve killing elite anacondas.

Regardless of the credit payouts, we don't need to scale all combat npcs to the viper. I sincerely hope that when thargoids are released, they chew up vipers and cobras in seconds. We don't have thargoids now, so I think having Elite anacondas be a challenge that recquires at the very least an Asp or a Clipper, or maybe 2 vipers/cobras (this is a multiplayer game, after all) is entirely reasonable.

 

[Vyvian]

have you been to a RES yet? They only fixed a bugged instant respawn, there are still pirates at RES.

I also made a lot of profit in conflict zones in my clipper, maybe stop boosting all the time?

Clipper will still make increased profits at a RES or even Nav Beacon, as it's larger weapons make quick work of all pirates meaning that no evil doers have time to escape. I was refering to ring farming where the bigger ships made a really big difference.

I'm glad you do okay in Combat zones and with the new increases in Combat bonds I'm sure that'll make a real difference.

I wasn't boosting the few times I got rammed. It was damn NPC Pythons boosting into me and always 'friendly' ones.
Not sure the AI realised how large these two ships were. Maybe with the new AI it might be a little safer.

Still make good money in a Combat Zone in a Viper though. The smaller size means you avoid a lot of fire coming from all the turrets.

 

[Gusty]

Then you dont know anything at all about repair costs on anything above an Asp.

Who is forcing you to fly anything above an asp ?

 

[BrewerGeorge]

Have you ever seen what the Phalanx Gun will do to a small torpedo ship, let alone missles. Big ships have defences agains fast torpedo boats.

I have seen what it will do to a training buoy several times, but I get your point. They are awesome.

So a small submarine can't take down a large aircraft carrier, in your experience?

In the first place, an Anaconda is not a carrier. It's more like a frigate, maybe destroyer. (Yes, I realize that strengthens your point. ) But a submarine using stealth tactics is absolutely nothing like a battle in E|D.

 

[OBoile]

Way too much "EXPENSIVE MUST BEAT CHEAP!" posts in here.

Uh, that's kind of the way things work. If "expensive" wasn't better than "cheap", it wouldn't be expensive.

 

[SilverBlack]

Is the problem of multiple banks still there if you have them assigned to the keyboard ?
All banks firing instead of just a single cell.

 

[adoredtv]

Is the problem of multiple banks still there if you have them assigned to the keyboard ?
All banks firing instead of just a single cell.

That may not necessarily be a "problem" as such as it lets you combine Shield Cells for extra regen or have more recharges depending on what you want. Not sure many people will be carrying multiples around these days anyway now.

 

[forger]

Shield strength regarding pips to SYS has not changed

I tested A7 shields on Anaconda in 1.0 and just now in 1.1, both times i used C3 Fixed Beam Laser.
It doesn't look changed to me at all - difference is within error margin

Spoiler

 

[nightwraith]

That's.....disappointing.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Clipper will still make increased profits at a RES or even Nav Beacon, as it's larger weapons make quick work of all pirates meaning that no evil doers have time to escape. I was refering to ring farming where the bigger ships made a really big difference.

That is true but you're still bottlenecked by the npc's spawn rate. In my clipper I can finish even pythons off quickly, however I often find myself waiting for more to jump in.

Who is forcing you to fly anything above an asp ?

The basic progression of the game, that's who. There's nothing else to spend money on, other than bigger ships.

 

[Vyvian]

At say 2 hours a day, 400,000 credits an hour you can affor a reasonably fitted asp in 2 weeks - combat pilots need not limit themselves to vipers or cobras. Your point here was that you should be able to experience the entire combat game in a viper. I respectfully disagree.

Likewise, you don't need to kill Elite Anacondas to make a living off of bounty hunting. Cobras routinely have bounties in the 20,000 to 30,000 ranges, as do Fed. Dropships. Likewise, I believe conflict zones have had combat bonds increased significantly in 1.1, I believe it's a 25,000 minimum per combat bond in a conflict zone.

My point is, no pilot needs to be able to kill elite anacondas with the pea shooter they get in their first week of play. There are many ways to make credits for a combat pilot that don't involve killing elite anacondas.

Regardless of the credit payouts, we don't need to scale all combat npcs to the viper. I sincerely hope that when thargoids are released, they chew up vipers and cobras in seconds. We don't have thargoids now, so I think having Elite anacondas be a challenge that recquires at the very least an Asp or a Clipper, or maybe 2 vipers/cobras (this is a multiplayer game, after all) is entirely reasonable.

The thing is the combat ships in this game are very well balanced. If you can kill someting in a Asp, you can kill it in a Viper, or a Cobra or a Clipper, just takes different tactics.

In PvP though, a pilot will jump out if they are losing in a bigger ship.

In PvE, the NPCs stick around till you kill them, hence a Viper can kill an Elite Anaconda. If Elite Anacondas did the sensible thing and jumped out when you took out their shields, you'd have to wait till you got to an Anaconda to mass-lock them, and no combat pilot is going to grind for that long just to complete one of these missions.

The reason I mention the Viper so much is not just because I enjoy flying one, but it's also the first good ship that most combat pilots will buy, and at that point the grind to the larger ships seems huge. If the games content was locked off from them until they completed this grind most will likely quit due to frustration.

Personally I have made over 50mil in combat and have a very well kitted out Clipper.

As I have stated I am happy with the combat economy as it stands. I see no great reason for change.

If FD were to make combat more difficult, I would also be happy, but if they do then some change to the economy would also have to be implemented.

Also have combat bonds really changed since Beta1.1?

In Beta, bonds were now between 1k for Federation/Imperial fighters up to 18k for anacondas. If they have truely made them 25k minumum then they have just radically changed the combat economy. I'll be making well over a million an hour.l

 

[Deleted member 71019]

i hate this settings

Using 2x 4b bank on my cobra(max fitted all A) before update 10charges and cost me 3% pwr now 4 charges and 9% pwr use (each) so 18% for 2 ....its 109% prw use for my ship...

With 1x 4b bank im on 99% with disabled cargo hatch 96% pwr use.... but nerf for me from 20 charges to 4 and i cant use cargo hatch if i want cell bank on max fitted cobra ....what a hell was that !

 

[Gusty]

That is true but you're still bottlenecked by the npc's spawn rate. In my clipper I can finish even pythons off quickly, however I often find myself waiting for more to jump in.



The basic progression of the game, that's who. There's nothing else to spend money on, other than bigger ships.

NOthing else but fighting bigger ships , or repairing the big ones.

 

[Vyvian]

That is true but you're still bottlenecked by the npc's spawn rate. In my clipper I can finish even pythons off quickly, however I often find myself waiting for more to jump in.



The basic progression of the game, that's who. There's nothing else to spend money on, other than bigger ships.

This was the difference with Ring Farming. (Hence why it's been removed.) No need to wait. A couple pirates would spawn at a time and as soon as you kill one another would spawn and fly towards you while you kill the other one so another one would spawn and fly towards you. Constant repeat. Collect bounties as quickly as you can kill them.

I think Gusty's point is that nothing is forcing you to buy anything above an Asp. You can reach ELITE in combat in a Viper or Asp almost as easily as a Clipper or Python.

This to me is what balances the different economies.

In exploration you don't need to buy anything past an Asp to reach Elite so you don't need much money.
In combat you don't need to buy anything past a Viper to reach Elite so you need even less money.
In trading you need to make a billion or so (I don't pay much attention to trading so I might have the figure wrong.), so you need to make big money to buy bigger ships to make more money in the hope of reaching Elite before 3300 actually comes around.

Forgot to add: You can spend your money by donating it to Minor factions involved in Civil Wars. 4mil at a time if you wish. Just remember to always give it to the Imperial factions.

Sorry, I seem to be the person completely de-railing this thread.

 

[Darth Ender]

If you need 10 shield charges to win a battle (any battle) you are doing it wrong.

I could take out elite anaconda's in my viper using a shield cell bank of 3 charges. But it sounds like (at work, so haven't booted 1.1 yet) I wont even get those 3 charges without significant consequences. This means the likelihood of a single viper taking out a anaconda has been rebalanced to be highly unlikely to succeed. Which makes sense. Tiny ships should realistically have to gang up on bigger ships to take them out.

I'm a viper pilot (mostly) and this rebalance sounds logical.

 

[adoredtv]

i hate this settings

Using 2x 4b bank on my cobra(max fitted all A) before update 10charges and cost me 3% pwr now 4 charges and 9% pwr use (each) so 18% for 2 ....its 109% prw use for my ship...

With 1x 4b bank im on 99% with disabled cargo hatch 96% pwr use.... but nerf for me from 20 charges to 4 and i cant use cargo hatch if i want cell bank on max fitted cobra ....what a hell was that !

The point of the nerf would be that 20 charges was absurd.

 

[Hitsuke]

i hate this settings

Using 2x 4b bank on my cobra(max fitted all A) before update 10charges and cost me 3% pwr now 4 charges and 9% pwr use (each) so 18% for 2 ....its 109% prw use for my ship...

With 1x 4b bank im on 99% with disabled cargo hatch 96% pwr use.... but nerf for me from 20 charges to 4 and i cant use cargo hatch if i want cell bank on max fitted cobra ....what a hell was that !

View attachment 14286

That's called fixing a problem m8. The problem was that ships could fit numerous SCBs easily and spam them forever in combat zones... unfortunately, they have only effected 3 or 4 ships with the changes, while others remain largely unaffected.

I've said it numerous times now... they should have just limited SCBs to one per ship. That would have worked and would have solved the universal problem of shield charge spam.