Honestly what's wrong with the space dust from FE2? Well at least for slow speeds, anything relativistic would need to do something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu7jA8EHi_0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu7jA8EHi_0
Proposal Discussion Perception of movement in a void?
- Thread starter Darkflame
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- guardians ram soundblasterz tah
I believe "space dust" is both unrealistic in the density/visibility required, and it doesn't give a sense of orientation.
Unlike the proposed AR overlay, it also couldn't be toggled on and off as the player wished. (at least, it would be harder to come up with a in-game excuse for an effect like that too be optional)
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Incidentally, I played that game in the video
Very cool stuff, but it isnt totally realistic...
....I couldn't pull of the Picard Manovor
I think because they didn't simulate the players own character model.
Unlike the proposed AR overlay, it also couldn't be toggled on and off as the player wished. (at least, it would be harder to come up with a in-game excuse for an effect like that too be optional)
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Incidentally, I played that game in the video
Very cool stuff, but it isnt totally realistic...
....I couldn't pull of the Picard Manovor
I think because they didn't simulate the players own character model.
Well, personally I am suggesting a lattice - Its a little bit more visually interesting.
The important thing I think in this case is a sense of speed more then knowing the exact distance or value.
We are dealing with such vaste scales and distances, if people even get a sense of even a fraction of that it will be awe-inspiring.
In fact, the ability to toggle perception of movement on/off would be particularly nice.
One moment you have a sense of the insane speed....the next near total stillness.
You know your going at vaste speeds still thanks to the PoM, but due to the stillness on the screen now your getting an impression of the beautiful emptiness of space.
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Just like FFE, you could judge you speed, and your required speed by the rate at which the boxes wizzed past you.
Let me calculate... at an average distance of 384399 km and speed of 500m/s you will reach the moon's distance from earth in 213.5 hours which are approximately 8.9 days of playtime. Not to mention that you wont catch up him with him with his 1km/s...
Back to the topic: I am fine when the GUI is giving you this perception. Like targeting tunnels etc. Space dust should only be visible during ring passage or so.
I am now reminded of "Only You Can Save Mankind" which featured a completely accurate flying though space screensaver of a trip to alpha century.
I like what they did in Freelancer. But there are certainly something wizzing past to make a feeling of movement. Graphics has come a far way since those days though. I remember playing it on a Geforce 4 card.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IZHTPRUGXE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IZHTPRUGXE
That gives a good sense of speed - but lacks the realism Elite is trying to aim for.
There simply isnt that much dust in space normally. Unless your going at speeds near C, your only occasionally are going to bump into a hydrogen atom.
That said, Elite has the advantage of being first-person. That means we can have "simulated" speed effects by the ships computer projected onto the HUD.
This could be very similar to Freelancer's effect, or it could be any other visualization to give a sense of motion.
My proposal was to give a subtle grid that your flying though;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7tPav5G8fg
That gives a sense of speed and orientation. Its all done by your ships computer, so it can be turned on/off at will. (or automatically?)
"Real" space dust could still be used in some situations though...near planets rings or where battles have taken place.
There is a TV movie where some astronauts are travelling to the outskirts of the solar system. In one part they have been told by mission control that there are going to be passing close to an asteroid and the crew repeatedly ask for permission to make a course correction. They are told that they don't need to and will make miles away from it. The next sequence is one of the most cinematic impressions of speed I have ever seen. It show them approaching the asteroid at many miles per second and pass around 100 meters distant. I'll try and get the name of the film from IMDB.
EDIT: The movie is called Space Odyssey: Voyage to the Planets
And this video has the part I am referring to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adDYuxt5GIs
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We actually tried the grid representation detailed above and we felt it didn't look good in the end and didn't really help with the sense of movement (it felt like the grid was moving over you rather than you moving through it). Also as for orientation what are you orienting towards? In the end depending on where you are the grid like nature of it might just look really bad because of the typical flight path through it not being along a major axis.
We're currently going with a subtle yet still visible periphery cloud like particle field that you fly through. Thus there are no dots or grains like in many other space games but there is something there to indicate movement and drifting. We can also scale up the effect and add more granular particulates when in and around dense asteroid or ring systems but even in the void we still have it visible around the periphery of the cockpit.
To reinforce the above we also have a concept of motion ladders that are visible on the HUD when in motion and show movement in the three relative axes around your ship. Thus there is one for vertical movement, one for horizontal and finally one for forward/backwards motion. Each ladder has three scales, each being a series of lines that move as the ship does. Each scale moves at a different rate, the largest lines belonging to the smallest scale and thus move very quickly as you get up to speed. The shortest lines move the slowest and represent much larger distances covered as they move by. Each set of lines belonging to a particular scale also fade out when their motion is no longer relevant to the player to help in readability. Thus when you're going really fast the longest lines belonging to the smallest scale almost completely fade away as they're no longer relevant for the speed you're going at.
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Thanks for that Mike.
I just hope the effect is really subtle, or can be optionally switched off or dialled down.
Ahem, perhaps a short video clip?...
As they used to say in the old Lensman books: "Clear Ether!"
It's subtle enough that you only really notice it when you're specifically looking for it but not so subtle that you're not subconsciously aware of it's presence. Ever since getting it in game it's dramatically improved the sense of speed and movement and it's almost impossible to imagine not having it in the game any more.
Jenner
I wish I was English like my hero Tj.
Sounds cool! Thanks for sharing.
Please continue...continue to write about visual features we are in "no way" interested in. Most importantly...under no circumstances must you ever post an image/video showing these things off!
Please continue...continue to write about visual features we are in "no way" interested in. Most importantly...under no circumstances must you ever post an image/video showing these things off!
The likelihood of us designers that engage the forums uploading a Gif let alone a video of anything we talk about is next to none
Videos and the like come from the man at the top and/or Michael.