Pirate players are ok but you get hunted

Or maybe the features look like they're not properly implemented because you are looking at them through Eve (or other) coloured glasses and trying to play the game as PvP when it's quite clear the whole thing was designed for Cooperative PvE.

Ehm.... can you provide some evidence for this claim :)
Where do the devs said that this game was intended only for coop-mode?
Why do we have 3 modes at the moment? : open/group/solo and if i'm not mistaken the group mode is a coop mode....
What makes you believe the group-mode is the major focus and why don't we have a decent comm system if coop was a priority?

Btw. i look at this game in the state it curently is.... and i don't get where you read i'm a pvp only fan or that i'm an Eve fan?
 
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Ehm.... can you provide some evidence for this claim :)
Where do the devs said that this game was intended only for coop-mode?
Why do we have 3 modes at the moment? : open/group/solo and if i'm not mistaken the group mode is a coop mode....
What makes you believe the group-mode is the major focus and why don't we have a decent comm system if coop was a priority?

Btw. i look at this game in the state it curently is.... and i don't get where you read i'm a pvp only fan or that i'm an Eve fan?

It was never you personally. ;) There are lots of "I wish they did it like this in Eve" and lots of PvP people, you did mention Eve in the post I replied to, so I considered it was appropriate.

But this thread alone is an example of what I am saying. It's focus is almost purely PvP. Piracy can take place against NPCs but most self-proclaimed pirate players state that it's only profitable when done PvP. Read what David Braben says in his interview with Escapist Magazine. Go to page 3. Maybe you won't read it like I do, but he does in fact mention PvE.

It's the player base that has made those definitions of what Open is. Open has become a "Because I can" fest, not because that was the intention, but because people. Groups is for private groups to play together - those can be PvP groups. Mobius just happens to be the most successful of the Groups and it is a PvE specialist group. Solo is a place for people with Low Bandwidth to play. It is also a place to escape "Perceived Griefing" (not my words - FDevs.)

The Escapist interview matches up with DB's original intention that PvP would be "Rare and Meaningful" in the Open mode.

However, all that aside, what I am saying is that the mechanics look broken if you look at the game with PvP glasses. It looks broken, because the original intent was not PvP, but PvE. If you look at the game as a PvE game in which Co-op is the big focus, some of the mechanics come in to focus and it looks *less* broken or badly-written.
 
There is nothing wrong with pirates. There are a couple things wrong with game mechanics that allow players to do things they shouldn't like camp inside a station, log off in the midst of interacting with player or npc, lack of flightgroups / wings, paying off your own bounty. These are things that will eventually get addressed or not and has nothing to do with the role of piracy. Both piracy and protection from piracy will improve as multiplayer cooperation is better facilitated.

The thing that FD can't do is make the players who whine and cry about getting killed in an otherwise exploit-free way from being a loud obnoxious voice in the forums and demand something be done to make things easier for them. With any luck, those players get actively ignored by FD. They're worse than the sad players who stick around starter systems in pythons and attack sidewinders.
 
It was never you personally. ;) There are lots of "I wish they did it like this in Eve" and lots of PvP people, you did mention Eve in the post I replied to, so I considered it was appropriate.

But this thread alone is an example of what I am saying. It's focus is almost purely PvP. Piracy can take place against NPCs but most self-proclaimed pirate players state that it's only profitable when done PvP. Read what David Braben says in his interview with Escapist Magazine. Go to page 3. Maybe you won't read it like I do, but he does in fact mention PvE.

It's the player base that has made those definitions of what Open is. Open has become a "Because I can" fest, not because that was the intention, but because people. Groups is for private groups to play together - those can be PvP groups. Mobius just happens to be the most successful of the Groups and it is a PvE specialist group. Solo is a place for people with Low Bandwidth to play. It is also a place to escape "Perceived Griefing" (not my words - FDevs.)

The Escapist interview matches up with DB's original intention that PvP would be "Rare and Meaningful" in the Open mode.

However, all that aside, what I am saying is that the mechanics look broken if you look at the game with PvP glasses. It looks broken, because the original intent was not PvP, but PvE. If you look at the game as a PvE game in which Co-op is the big focus, some of the mechanics come in to focus and it looks *less* broken or badly-written.

I can understand that PVP is not the way David intended it but if you provide an open mode and say at the same time anything is possible.... you don't speak clear language.
Basicly David always say what people wanna hear... btw i read the interview before and i was not impressed with the things he said.

If it is not intended that players attack other players or pirate them then they should up the WANTED fines for attacking/interdicting other CMDR's and the problem is solved.
Attack another player= 500.000 cr
Attack 5 players = 10.000.000 cr.

Problem solved and the game can be played like you think it is 'intended' if this very small and easy tweak is implemented.

If elite wanted to focus on coop they shouldn't offer a choice between major factions: we should all be on the same side fighting the NPC. The fact is we have an open mode where people can support different factions. We hav professions like pirates/bounty hunters / traders... 1+1=2 in my case and by this i mean that anyone that supports any other faction could be my enemy weather they are NPC or CMDR. If i'm a pirate a trader is my prey weather they are NPC or CMDR etc....

The fact is we as players don't have severe consequences for killing other players ... David can say all he wants but in the end it is the 'game' we play that leaves possibilities open or certain areas/choices/actions restricted. Because the possibility is left open in this case it is only fair to assume the devs have no problem with people engaging in PVP.

btw. i played also ARMA III and often in COOP mode and i loved it. In Elite however coop is severely limited at the moment... because missions/AI etc don't require any coop and/or comms need an overhaul and/or p2P doesn't work very well.

It is very simple: if it is not intended make sure the option is not available.... you can rely on the goodwill of people behind a PC to make things work. The devs have to make things work.
 
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Because the possibility is left open in this case it is only fair to assume the devs have no problem with people engaging in PVP.

They have also said they are implementing changes regarding consequences. I suspect all the casual weekend pseudo pirates are in for a shock.
 
They have also said they are implementing changes regarding consequences. I suspect all the casual weekend pseudo pirates are in for a shock.
What kind of consequences you can possibly implement? Bounties currently are exploitable to the hilt, they are essentially credits if you have a buddy or a second account :) Farming them on players might be not efficient, but I wouldn't rely on bounty amount to deter anything. You can have two pirates collecting bounties for each other and making profits easily :)
 
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Sadly most player pirates will blow up the trader even after they have gained the cargo.

And where do you get your data from? On both sides of the interdiction, I found that to be untrue. Plenty of pirates, myself included seem to be the "honorable pirate" type.
 
And where do you get your data from? On both sides of the interdiction, I found that to be untrue. Plenty of pirates, myself included seem to be the "honorable pirate" type.

Most people are so shocked if they get killed in open that all logic disappears...
Some traders expect to be left alone if they trade in a cardboard box for faction x. What they don't get is that other players can support faction Y. What if i kill traders and play the role of the so called 'psychopath'... in the end i still support my own faction/party.

Why can't people understand the simple concept of different factions ... different objectives?

Why is it accepted by many people here that in this game a trader is a valid profession and the role of a 'looney' that just wants to create panic/destruction and mayhem is not accepted?

Why is it that some traders who refuse to play solo seem to think that they should be able to 'play the game their way' while at the same time believe that pirating in open should be made impossible?

btw. I believe i slowly turn into a 'psycho'... more and more i feel the urge to go to the dark side and just have 'fun'. Yep, just shoot at stuff because i can and because 'i like to play the game my way'!!!!
Whrooooohahaha, traders watch your back. Escape to solo while you still can because soon i'll haunt you!!!

Seems people take this game to serious and get confused about real life vs reality. ;-)
 
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Most people are so shocked if they get killed in open that all logic disappears...
Some traders expect to be left alone if they trade in a cardboard box for faction x. What they don't get is that other players can support faction Y. Even if i kill the trader and play the role of the so called 'psychopath' i still support my own faction (btw i never did it but maybe in the future).

Why can't people understand the simple concept of different factions ... different objectives?

Why is it accepted by many people here that in this game a trader is a valid profession and the role of a 'looney' that just wants to create panic/destruction and mayhem is not accepted?

Why is it that some traders who refuse to play solo seem to think that they should be able to 'play the game their way' while at the same time believe that pirating in open should be made impossible?

Seems people take this game to serious and get confused about real life vs reality.

The shock comes when you get a Player jump in and just destroy you. Okay, if an NPC does that, fine. It's a programme. But a human - that's the reason you want to be in open, for the interaction. If all you want is to see a ship explode, there's plenty of NPCs that won't say a word. To say PvP against traders is because you want the human interaction, and then the only interaction you do is at the end of a beam - you lie. It's just one big lie. You just want another human to feel it - plain and simple.

DB did not say he didn't want PvP in the Game, just that it would be meaningful. You're talking taking down pilots because of different objectives? Then you are talking Blockades. Blockades aren't meaningful because the BG Simulation, and other pilots exist in other instances and other modes. You being on faction Y killing player on faction X has no effect. Even worse, if the pilot was clean, you end up worse off and no gain, no rating increase, nada. Piracy looses a mark, and that's not good for the game over all. If the faction is in Civil war, in a war zone, possibly with Capital Ships, there is your meaningful PvP, what the system was designed to support.

You mentioned the psychopath role. It is the lowest of the low in terms of roles, because they bleed out the blood Pirates live on. They should be hunted by Pirates and Bounty Hunters alike. Instead, everyone rushes to defend them, even to the point of defending combat logging and port blocking. Of course, traders get blasted for doing that, cause "You should go play in solo if you don't like it." Of course, systems like Lave are supposed to be high security, are advertised as such, but are in fact a noob killing grounds. That's not playing the game as it was designed, it goes against the design, something that FDev have recognised and have already moved to fix. Suddenly how the game was designed becomes less important than the motivation "Because I can."

And yes, it's three months in. The whole reasoning for early release was provided in the same article. Of course not everything is ready yet. And yes, there are things to be rectified, like wings, comms, legacy fines (fines and bounties that cannot be exploited.) But the excuse of being stupidly bored cause there's nothing to do so I just kill every human pilot I see is as lame as it is a lie. It's just another excuse.

Add to that when people start appealing to "It's just a game, you're taking it too serious" when they find that their argument is getting weak is not good. The next thing will be personal attacks, name calling, etc. etc. Hope you're bigger than that. :)
 
Why are people moaning about pirating? I've had pirates interdict me and before they have finished there sentence about them scanning me and dropping cargo I have there shields down and there fleeing!

I've also been a pirate and killed many players. People should stop moaning and learn to play the game more successfully.

All I hear is nerf this and nerf that blah blah blah and tbh I'm sick and tired of hearing it.
Braben please stick to your vision and ignore these whiners.
Only thing I would change is the penalty for killing someone as a pirate in a civilised system should be higher than 6k. More like 12k. People would think twice.
 
The shock comes when you get a Player jump in and just destroy you. Okay, if an NPC does that, fine. It's a programme. But a human - that's the reason you want to be in open, for the interaction. If all you want is to see a ship explode, there's plenty of NPCs that won't say a word. To say PvP against traders is because you want the human interaction, and then the only interaction you do is at the end of a beam - you lie. It's just one big lie. You just want another human to feel it - plain and simple.

DB did not say he didn't want PvP in the Game, just that it would be meaningful. You're talking taking down pilots because of different objectives? Then you are talking Blockades. Blockades aren't meaningful because the BG Simulation, and other pilots exist in other instances and other modes. You being on faction Y killing player on faction X has no effect. Even worse, if the pilot was clean, you end up worse off and no gain, no rating increase, nada. Piracy looses a mark, and that's not good for the game over all. If the faction is in Civil war, in a war zone, possibly with Capital Ships, there is your meaningful PvP, what the system was designed to support.

You mentioned the psychopath role. It is the lowest of the low in terms of roles, because they bleed out the blood Pirates live on. They should be hunted by Pirates and Bounty Hunters alike. Instead, everyone rushes to defend them, even to the point of defending combat logging and port blocking. Of course, traders get blasted for doing that, cause "You should go play in solo if you don't like it." Of course, systems like Lave are supposed to be high security, are advertised as such, but are in fact a noob killing grounds. That's not playing the game as it was designed, it goes against the design, something that FDev have recognised and have already moved to fix. Suddenly how the game was designed becomes less important than the motivation "Because I can."

And yes, it's three months in. The whole reasoning for early release was provided in the same article. Of course not everything is ready yet. And yes, there are things to be rectified, like wings, comms, legacy fines (fines and bounties that cannot be exploited.) But the excuse of being stupidly bored cause there's nothing to do so I just kill every human pilot I see is as lame as it is a lie. It's just another excuse.

Add to that when people start appealing to "It's just a game, you're taking it too serious" when they find that their argument is getting weak is not good. The next thing will be personal attacks, name calling, etc. etc. Hope you're bigger than that. :)

oh please... just stop it...
why are you ok when an NPC kills you but you are not ok when another CMDR kills you?

Look in the end all i'm saying it is the devs responsibility to allow/disallow choices in a game.
I'm fine with heavy consequences for pirates etc... i'm also fine with people that wanna trade.
I'm eagerly awaiting updates/patches that make various play-styles more rewarding and 'meaningfull'

I'm not fine with traders whining if they 'loose their ship' by another CMDR, because some 'pirates/psychopaths' don't play the game the way it is 'intended' according to them.

I'm not a trader and i'm not a pirate...
I'm not a lover and i'm not a fighter...
but ain't it funny that some so called 'peacefull traders' develop a real 'hatred' against certain players because their peacefull existance get disturbed?
 
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Why are people moaning about pirating? I've had pirates interdict me and before they have finished there sentence about them scanning me and dropping cargo I have there shields down and there fleeing!

I've also been a pirate and killed many players. People should stop moaning and learn to play the game more successfully.

All I hear is nerf this and nerf that blah blah blah and tbh I'm sick and tired of hearing it.
Braben please stick to your vision and ignore these whiners.
Only thing I would change is the penalty for killing someone as a pirate in a civilised system should be higher than 6k. More like 12k. People would think twice.


Nice one... made me chuckle.
Damn these forums are 1000 times better then the game ;-)
 
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PvP piracy will never work.

A single pirate would need about a hundred traders to:
a) get enough income
b) don't rob the same traders over and over again so they don't leave open (or the game).

it... will... never... work
 
PvP piracy will never work.

A single pirate would need about a hundred traders to:
a) get enough income
b) don't rob the same traders over and over again so they don't leave open (or the game).

it... will... never... work

The beauty (and curse) of this game is that when all traders flee to solo... some pirates become traders because well 'easy credits' you know ... and the circle of life begins again... and the new traders can complain in the forums about 'psychopaths' etc...
 
Npc have no option other than to Act as they have been programed,You as a PC Act as you wish freewill and all that ,Human pirates are no better than real world thieves Prying on others and stealing there time and effort,Pirates only exist for me for hunt and Destroy them
 
I spend most of my time reading on the forums about players shooting other ships just because they can.

Piracy is part of the game and I have no problem with that but a simple solution would be:

You destroy a players ship that did not have a wanted status, you become wanted until you are hunted down and destroyed. You cannot clear the status by paying a fine or self destructing.

The more you destroy the bigger the bounty and the wider Galnet spreads your details.

Bounty Hunters will come looking for you.

I agree with this, but also make escorts possible for traders for a fee (NPC at first then humans in 1.2), in addition to that, make black market goods highly profitable, and make them work hard to stay off the grid. They need more reward and more danger imo.
 
Npc have no option other than to Act as they have been programed,You as a PC Act as you wish freewill and all that ,Human pirates are no better than real world thieves Prying on others and stealing there time and effort,Pirates only exist for me for hunt and Destroy them

So what you basicly say is that a kill in a game equals a kill in real life....
I think i'm beginning to understand why some people say that some certain games have a negative effect on the human mind.
 
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