Open letter to Devs, Why I am now combat logging and what to do with this pirate.

[mapesdhs]

... personally I'd be after them and paying off my own bounty once I got them ;-)

See my earlier point; I don't think typical police forces, etc., pay bounties to wanted criminals just because they've done some kind of good deed; the initial priority would be your arrest for outstanding offences.
Don't worry, I saw the smiley, but just thought I'd mention that it should not be possible for a wanted criminal to reduce their bounty by taking down other wanted criminals, or at least not entirely, eg. much
reduced proportion of the reward, or something like that.

Ian.

 

[huwthomas]

There is nothing Frontier can do to fix this mess. If they made bounties unclearable and persist after death the griefers would just exploit it as a source of income. "Hey bro, come kill me again and get another 3 million credits, split it 50-50. Just like you did yesterday, the day before yesterday, and every day last week. Lulz this is good money".

If they leave it trivial to clear bounties you have the current farcical situation. Some griefer interdicts and kills you 27 times and you know he's a murderer but he's always clean. You become a criminal if you hunt him down. Broken.

Anyone who's committed a crime against you [in the last time period "X" maybe] could continue appear as "Wanted" to you, even if there's no bounty.

There are many other mechanics that could be considered, many explored in this thread (e.g. collected bounties being applied as a debt to the surviving criminal, which addresses your first scenario). Saying FD has no way of solving/mitigating this is just wrong.

 

[Jorlin]

What if the switch from open to solo and vice versa would be occupied with a timer? Not sure about the length of such a timer but should be a significant period like a few days at least to make frequent mode flipping a lot more unattractive (without entirely giving up this functionality which isn't going to happen anyway).
Would this help?

help with what?
combat logging: no. there is no mode switch needed to do it.
i can just log off and have a break for 15 minutes. if i come back, he's still there and i get attacked... just log again.

 

[mapesdhs]

...it's not a suburban high street. ...

Which high street do you live in? I can think of plenty that are not remotely safe in the real world, surprisingly many in the US. Visiting friends in one US city, I was told to keep the windows up to stop opportunisitic snatchers, not something I'd ever heard of before back home. OTOH, there are places in my own country where I wouldn't walk down certain roads at 2am, though the risk of actual death is zero compared to certain parts of the US or other countries (I'm tempted to make anologies to gun crime, but I won't as that'd kick of a whooole other flame war. ;D)

So your analogy to the real world fails. We have police forces, but they can't be everywhere, and people wouldn't like it if they were.

Ironic though that you then say you like to do exactly the sort of thing which in the real world is what makes some streets total hell holes. :}

It may be just a game to you, but tell that to a trader who's spent ages building up a ship, etc., only to have it wrecked by an apparently clean player with no bounty, just 'because they can' (done by the kind of perp who's cleared previous bounties via the current broken game mechanic). What you're doing is what's driving many away; I support the idea you should be able to try and do it (that's the whole idea of ED afterall), but there should be consequences for that choice, like having a wanted sign on your head that can't be gotten rid of just by paying someone a few creds (in the real world that'd be called bribing the cops) and a bounty that ends up so freakin' high that in no short order after so many killings you'd have every BH around after your butt. That's the way it should be.

Btw, what is the rationale behind the notion that being interdicted causes ship damage? I really don't get it...

Ian.

 

[InMemoriamSirocco]

GUESS WHAT HAPPENED ON MY VERY FIRST TRIP TO LAVE AND WITHIN 5 MINUTES OF PLAYING AS AN UNARMED TRADER ?????

The forum is full with threads about the pirate threat around Lave. The system has been the staging area for various invasions, offensives, counter-offensives, hostile take-overs, griefing, terrorism and all kinds of nasty player behavior in the days since release.

So raging about getting attacked by a pirate in a system that is widely known for its piracy issues....

Let me put it this way: Would you book a holiday in Syria right now? Would you drive a cargo truck through the mountains of Afghanistan? Would you lead an unarmed gold transport without escort through Ukraine rebel territory? Drive an ice cream truck through ISIS controlled desert? Spend your holidays in Somali pirate controlled waters on a yacht?

You entered Lave at your own risk. The information about the level of risk had been available since game release. And still you entered Lave in an unarmed transport, a flying brick. What did you expect to happen?

Sorry, usually I am strictly against victim-blaming, and yes, you do have a valid point about the ease with which player pirates can still wipe their own criminal status clean. I myself have proposed and suggested alternative solutions to this on many occasions, often driven by the same kind of terrible experiences that you had. But complaining about player piracy in a system that is known as the galactic HUB for player pirates....

That cost you a lot of sympathy points.

 

[mapesdhs]

Paying off the wanted status using credits is entirely logical ...

Not for murder it isn't; in that context it's completely stupid.

Ian.

 

[kapitankev]

The Supreme Irony in all this........is the Puppy Pirates.
.
Ever since I have been on the forums, they have been moaning that Traders are running away......Pirates want, and have now got with 1.2, a slower cool down of the FSD....................but, the point was, Pirates called traders Care Bears for running away.
.
And yet Pirates have been running to the police station, paying off their Murder fines......and so there is no "Pirates" for the Bounty Hunters to hunt.......because the Pirates run and hide, just like the traders do........
.
Pot, Kettle, Black...............

This is such an exaggeration. Everytime I go out thieving I bet a bounty on my head, I'll be out in SC for a good 2 hours solid without clearing that bounty. The idea that pirates spend most of their time clean is a fallacy. From my first attack I'm wanted and I'll stay that way until the end of my session or until I get enough booty or bounties of my own to collect. I'm rarely out for less than an hour.

This is what I'd do if I was a dedicated BH until this is fixed, pirate the pirates.....get their cargo. If they look clean, watch em...they're easy to identify. Hagnign around the nav point, spiralling about interdicting people. Just interdict em yourself, you'll only get a small fine for it.


You might incur some damage on em, maybe they're innocent....big deal! apologise and move on....maybe spit out a barrel of rares to cover their costs.

 

[tdshooter]

If you combat log you Are part of the. Well in This case another problem but still a big problem petty excuse
EDIT fixed a typo

 

[lonewarrior]

There is a solution so simple I don't know why it's not been added
-
In death, bounty is added to insurance cost once
-
Insurance 1 million? 2 million bounty? 3 million rebuy cost

On death bounty is now clear but you are still considered wanted, and my pay 1/4 of the total original bounty to clear your name
-
However because you have no official bounty, killing you is allowed but gives no bounty, instead of saying wanted it will say "on probation" so players know that killing you is still allowed because you "were" wanted but doing so will yield no bounty
-
If you choose to commit more crimes, your bounty will start again at 0 but you will still have the 1/4 UNCLAIMBLE bounty added when you die again
-
To make it better for pirates, the cost on the black market for stolen goods goes up relative to your total bounty, which would need some testing and balance but makes it so there's a reason to pirate (I am not a pirate but think they need more profits)
-

Problem solved, punishes them, disallows friends to exploit it and allows them to redeem themselves from accidents, gives pirates better options and costs them their ship of they act stupid

 

[kapitankev]

Which high street do you live in? I can think of plenty that are not remotely safe in the real world, surprisingly many in the US. Visiting friends in one US city, I was told to keep the windows up to stop opportunisitic snatchers, not something I'd ever heard of before back home. OTOH, there are places in my own country where I wouldn't walk down certain roads at 2am, though the risk of actual death is zero compared to certain parts of the US or other countries (I'm tempted to make anologies to gun crime, but I won't as that'd kick of a whooole other flame war. ;D)

So your analogy to the real world fails. We have police forces, but they can't be everywhere, and people wouldn't like it if they were.

Ironic though that you then say you like to do exactly the sort of thing which in the real world is what makes some streets total hell holes. :}

It may be just a game to you, but tell that to a trader who's spent ages building up a ship, etc., only to have it wrecked by an apparently clean player with no bounty, just 'because they can' (done by the kind of perp who's cleared previous bounties via the current broken game mechanic). What you're doing is what's driving many away; I support the idea you should be able to try and do it (that's the whole idea of ED afterall), but there should be consequences for that choice, like having a wanted sign on your head that can't be gotten rid of just by paying someone a few creds (in the real world that'd be called bribing the cops) and a bounty that ends up so freakin' high that in no short order after so many killings you'd have every BH around after your butt. That's the way it should be.

Btw, what is the rationale behind the notion that being interdicted causes ship damage? I really don't get it...

Ian.

I live in a "suburban" high street...like I said. You've kind of proved my point....elite isn't a safe place but this has been said before, it's NOT like a suburban high street but more like the dodgier parts of town you describe.....dangerous
OPs idea that you can't find players with bounties is just plain wrong. They may not have bounties as large as they should have but they're out there.

This'll be fixed soon I'm sure and we'll all cope just fine.....until then I'll wipe my bounties, why? cos I can.

Same reason every trader I interdict submits.....neither of these things are comparable to combat logging though and both can be dealt with by adjusting your play style.

Ban the OP.

 

[Jaeger]

A simple 48hr wait on a murder charge before you can pay off the bounty would make things a lot better.

How very simple and elegant.

 

[Mithos09]

...
The forum is full with threads about the pirate threat around Lave. The system has been the staging area for various invasions, offensives, counter-offensives, hostile take-overs, griefing, terrorism and all kinds of nasty player behavior in the days since release.

So raging about getting attacked by a pirate in a system that is widely known for its piracy issues....
...

That reminds me of the first scenes from the Hitchhiker's Guide. Let me tell you something: You don't have to read the forums to play the game. In fact, you should never be forced to read a forum to be able to play a game.

Second thing: He had been to Lave before. He even searched for pirates in Lave before, because he was bounty hunting in lave. There were no signs for those "well known" piracy issues. That's the point, and you totally missed it.

 

[Jaeger]

Quote Originally Posted by Snakebite View Post

I can not tell you guys just how angry I am at this encounter.... Basically this guy is going around pirating and simply because of the STUPID game mechanic that allows him to wipe his criminal record constantly he not only gets away with murder but the same gameplay mechanic is ruining the game for anyone want to bounty hunt.

.. E D Griefers paradise - too many eve influences - sad.

 

[Midian27]

Can't believe people defending op. Yes that pirate is a scumbag but op is even worse.

 

[mapesdhs]

... If they made bounties unclearable and persist after death ...

IMO bounties for murder should not be clearable just by paying some agency some credits at all, it doesn't make sense.

if ship destruction clears the bounty value, but the wanted status is tied into a rep and can only be cleared through missions, it may work.

I commented on something similar, having a legal status that persists even if one is no longer actually wanted. A criminal record which has consequences in other ways.

I live in a "suburban" high street...like I said. You've kind of proved my point....

You used an analogy of a high street to try and make a point (your implication was high streets are safe compared to the world of ED), the intent of my reply was to suggest your analogy doesn't work, because high streets are not inherantly safe. Meanwhile, I just find it amusing after your having tried to suggest such a thing that your own behaviour in ED is exactly that which in the real world makes some streets dangerous.

This'll be fixed soon I'm sure and we'll all cope just fine.....until then I'll wipe my bounties, why? cos I can.

In which case don't complain about the OP and others using combat logging as a means of avoiding chicken pseudo-pirates, 'cos they can. Yeah, I like that, a pirate who pays their fines is a pseudo-pirate, a fake pirate, chicken pirate. Proper pirates wear their statis with pride and disown others who explain a corrupt police system (since that's what it has to be IMO) in order to remain clean.

It's a broken system which needs fixing, for the benefit of all. If you're a "pirate" by your own definition, then act like one; stop trying to hide by paying off fines for acts that you know full well shouldn't be clearable by a mere credit payment. I don't have the right mindset to be a pirate, but I have huge respect for the self-proclaimed pirate-types here who say they don't pay off such fines on principle because that effectively hides precisely the persona they're trying to adopt in the ED realm.

In a way I'm reminded of some of the things I've seen & read about how real-life criminal classes operate. Many of them have their own codes of behaviour and rules, especially inside prisons.

So how about this then, something simple: those who act like pirates but keep clearing their name via paying fines can be detected by other 'proper' pirates who don't pay the dumb fines (offhand, I don't care how), the latter able to blow them away without consequence for giving 'legit' pirates a bad name. In many a real criminal world, I'm sure the essence of what you're doing would be regarded with great dishonour. Maybe the game mechanics can be adjusted so there's a penalty for acting that way within the pirating 'community', not just the notion that BHs would want to take you down, the issue with BH being exactly what does not work atm because of the daft game mechanic which you keep exploiting, because you 'can'.

Ban the OP.

I'd rather you were banned for pretending to be a pirate when you aren't acting like one, but hey that's just imo.

Ian.

 

[Stein]

Ban the OP.

This I don't agree with. From reading through the first page of the sticky post about combat logging, it is frowned upon by FD and will shake their finger at you it you're caught doing it, but as of right now there is no officially stated consequence for combat logging. FD has known about the exploit for some time but they have not stated AFAIK what penalty they consider proper. It would be so easy for FD to say that combat logging will cause banning, or a cr fine, or a big red hat of shame on your ship, but they haven't so who knows what they consider. I don't like the lynch mob mentality against the OP in this thread.

 

[mapesdhs]

... I don't like the lynch mob mentality against the OP in this thread.

Especially from those who are doing the very thing that the OP highlighted as being a problem within the game, and something that the vast majority seem to agree does need fixing (re the poll and general comments).

Hmm, I think it would be rather cool to see a youtube upload from a 'real' pirate ("10M bounty and proud of it!") taking out a chicken pirate because the latter keeps clearing their name, making them unworthy of those who say they follow the pirate... er, code (dang, slipped into P. Of The Caribbean speak, didn't mean to; ach, you know what I mean). It would be an honour thing, exactly the kind of act that goes on in the criminal world. Could even lead to some interesting interactions where bounty hunters & proper pirates might even cooperate to deal with perceived disonourable individuals, that would be a very cool upload to watch!

Ian.

 

[Hump Johnson]

This I don't agree with. From reading through the first page of the sticky post about combat logging, it is frowned upon by FD and will shake their finger at you it you're caught doing it, but as of right now there is no officially stated consequence for combat logging. FD has known about the exploit for some time but they have not stated AFAIK what penalty they consider proper. It would be so easy for FD to say that combat logging will cause banning, or a cr fine, or a big red hat of shame on your ship, but they haven't so who knows what they consider. I don't like the lynch mob mentality against the OP in this thread.

They shouldn't be banning anyone really. Everyone here has either backed ED or paid for it at release ( I hope). These mechanics , exploits, loopholes, call them what you will should be closed and sorted by FD ASAP so no one can shout "ban them". Will these people who get "banned" get some kind of refund because they used some exploit that has not been sorted (but should have) by FD.

 

[kapitankev]

IMO bounties for murder should not be clearable just by paying some agency some credits at all, it doesn't make sense.




I commented on something similar, having a legal status that persists even if one is no longer actually wanted. A criminal record which has consequences in other ways.




You used an analogy of a high street to try and make a point (your implication was high streets are safe compared to the world of ED), the intent of my reply was to suggest your analogy doesn't work, because high streets are not inherantly safe. Meanwhile, I just find it amusing after your having tried to suggest such a thing that your own behaviour in ED is exactly that which in the real world makes some streets dangerous.




In which case don't complain about the OP and others using combat logging as a means of avoiding chicken pirates, 'cos they can.

It's a broken system which needs fixing, for the benefit of all. If you're a "pirate" by your own definition, then act like one; stop trying to hide by paying off fines for acts that you know full well shouldn't be clearable by a mere credit payment. I don't have the right mindset to be a pirate, but I have huge respect for the self-proclaimed pirate-types here who say they don't pay off such fines on principle because that effectively hides precisely the persona they're trying to adopt in the ED realm.

In a way I'm reminded of some of the things I've seen & read about how real-life criminal classes operate. Many of them have their own codes of behaviour and rules, especially inside prisons.

So how about this then, something simple: those who act like pirates but keep clearing their name via paying fines can be detected by other 'proper' pirates who don't pay the dumb fines (offhand, I don't car ehow), the latter able to blow them away without consequence for giving 'legit' pirates a bad name. In many a real criminal world, I'm sure the essence of what you're doing would be regarded with great dishonour. Maybe the game mechanics can be adjusted so there's a penalty for acting that way within the pirating 'community', not just the notion that BHs would want to take you down, the latter being exactly what does not work atm because of the daft game mechanic which you keep exploiting atm.




I'd rather you were banned for pretending to be a pirate when you aren't acting like one, but hey that's just imo.

Ian.

Urgh.....I'll say it in big letters....SUBURBAN.....you can;'t just ignore things I've said so that you argument works.Well you can but it makes you look silly.

Also your definition of a pirate is obv not the same as mine and I'm quite sure real life pirates don't hold to some strange honour code out of respect for bounty hunters. When Mr Somalian pirate goes into town to spend his cash I think you'll find he takes the parrot of his shoulder so to speak.

I honestly can't understand why you'd want to ban a player who plays within the rules of the game and defend someone who's blatantly cheating ostensibly because he's not been very successful. Combat logging makes you effectively immune to attack. You may as well save your self the hassle of reloading all the time and hack yourself infinite shields. At least I could swear at you a bit as you run away.

By "you" I mean whoever's cheating not actually you....unless you've combat logged before!?!?! You do seem a bit touchy about it.

There's no need for any silly system for pirates to be able to detect if I've cleared my fines....because most of the time I'm out in SC, guess what? I do have a bounty on my head! and it gets collected quite regularly! Just not by the OP it seems.

BAN HIM

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Especially from those who are doing the very thing that the OP highlighted as being a problem within the game, and something that the vast majority seem to agree does need fixing (re the poll and general comments).

Hmm, I think it would be rather cool to see a youtube upload from a 'real' pirate ("10M bounty and proud of it!") taking out a chicken pirate because the latter keeps clearing their name, making them unworthy of those who say they follow the pirate... er, code (dang, slipped into P. Of The Caribbean speak, didn't mean to; ach, you know what I mean). It would be an honour thing, exactly the kind of act that goes on in the criminal world. Could even lead to some interesting interactions where bounty hunters & proper pirates might even cooperate to deal with perceived disonourable individuals, that would be a very cool upload to watch!

Ian.

How about a really exciting video where a crappy bounty hunter gets interdicted but then ruins it by hitting CTRL-ALT_DEL and bailing out like a big whoopsy plop?

 

[sfajardo]

he said he combat logged, but there is no evidence. The only proof is his word, that can be changed, so no evidence for banning IMO. If you think he cheated, show >your< evidence.