Should FD Sell the Ships in a Shop?

[Marc Alexander]

FD said they are looking at allowing real money to by CR. So there will be no need to sell ships for real money since you can use CR in game that were purchased with RM.

Citation please. I would like to know now if this is fact as I know about 53 people who will quit instantly including myself, as the threat alone of getting a guild financially and time invested into a new MMO to have it flip pay2win is enough warrant us pulling up roots and finding another MMO to back.

It was mentioned during the Kickstarter I believe. However, there has been something since (and recently-ish I think) that the only items that will be available to buy in the store are cosmetic (I'll have a look for the source).

Kinda:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=776661#post776661
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=42349&page=3&p=777128&viewfull=1#post777128

 

[Dakron Nova]

Hello there

For those with little time it *is* unfortunate, but on the flip side what about those with little or no disposable income? Would it be fair to them?

Yes perfectly fair, time = money. If you have plenty of either it would even things out.

 

[Draxxen]

I will say Yes.

Why Yes?

Since you are talking about ships that are already available to everybody, and not gold-standard special ships, there is no "Pay to Win", really. It only opens up an opportunity for extra income to the game developer, ensuring that a game with no monthly fees keeps improving, delivers expansions, and hopefully help keeps the servers running smoothly. I am sure the custom paint jobs we can buy help on that, but they cannot possibly be a huge profit. (I do not see why I should spend money on something I cannot see unless I am in the hangar.)

Anybody can reach a Python by grinding their rear off a couple weeks if they read through the right threads on this forum. So you only increases your own gaming experience by getting that ship you really want without all that hazzle (assuming you hate trading and traveling through the systems with your cargo hulls filled with rare substances).

Quite frankly, in solo mode the best ship you could wish for is the ASP, imho, and that ship does not take long to reach at all by trading rares. But if you want to add to the dev's income, why not? It will benefit the community, the way I see it.

 

[Xaraman]

After doing a quick google search, I found one interview from 2012 which seemed to indicated FDev were possibly looking at microtransactions over subscription.

However, there was an interview just last November where DB stated he was against anything "Pay-to-win".

I'm sure it's not contradictory, just the fact that over the last couple of years, their business model evolved.

Here you go:
http://archive.beefjack.com/index.html?p=155940.html (Nov 2012)
and
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Elite-Dangerous-PC-123740/Specials/Interview-David-Braben-1137299/2/ (Nov 2014)

 

[Chip Patton]

Yes perfectly fair, time = money. If you have plenty of either it would even things out.

Sure, for mr deep pockets maybe, but not for Mr Iwork3JobsJust2Paybills. Not everyone with little time has money to burn. The moment this game becomes a wallet war instead of a skill war, I'm out as I don't have thousands of dollars to burn, I have a business to run, and 4 grade-school kids to take care of.

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After doing a quick google search, I found one interview from 2012 which seemed to indicated FDev were possibly looking at microtransactions over subscription.

However, there was an interview just last November where DB stated he was against anything "Pay-to-win".

I'm sure it's not contradictory, just the fact that over the last couple of years, their business model evolved.

Here you go:
http://archive.beefjack.com/index.html?p=155940.html (Nov 2012)
and
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Elite-Dangerous-PC-123740/Specials/Interview-David-Braben-1137299/2/ (Nov 2014)

None of these even remotely suggest that they will charge for credits or any pay2win item -- it says microtransactions which is inclusive of the sale of individual ship paints.

 

[Xaraman]

None of these even remotely suggest that they will charge for credits or any pay2win item -- it says microtransactions which is inclusive of the sale of individual ship paints.

That was my point

 

[Dakron Nova]

The second a game like this allows members to "buy" their way to the end game, expect an exodus.
Look what happened to WoW...

What is the end game?

So what if people leave those players wont be brining in money to FD anyway, those who stay will be giving FD funds to resource extra content.

 

[Ydiss]

FD said they are looking at allowing real money to by CR. So there will be no need to sell ships for real money since you can use CR in game that were purchased with RM.

Is this recent?

Sandro recently said they'd never allow us to use real money to cover the costs of rebuy on ship loss. If they allowed us to pay money for credits, that's exactly the same thing. Lose ship, not enough money to rebuy? Log out, buy credits, log back in.

So it may have been considered in Kickstarter. But I doubt it's considered now.

 

[Kiblams]

Sure, for mr deep pockets maybe, but not for Mr Iwork3JobsJust2Paybills. Not everyone with little time has money to burn. The moment this game becomes a wallet war instead of a skill war, I'm out.

So by your logic, the game as it stands is little more than a time war (not including The Doctor) and anyone with a big ship can kill anyone else in a smaller ship regardless of skill...

Everyone are far too hung up on the belief that a more expensive ship is winning, my understanding is that smaller more agile ships are far better in dog fights.

 

[Chip Patton]

That was my point

Making sure! The subject is very profound to my guild -- we've been rather nomadic in MMO's since EverQuest went Pay2Win sending us to EVE to have them follow with PLEX just after we all had a year sunk into the game (we're fed up with the system and would like to find a solid company/game they can promise to keep a fair playing field for everyone who pays for access).

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So by your logic, the game as it stands is little more than a time war (not including The Doctor) and anyone with a big ship can kill anyone else in a smaller ship regardless of skill...

Everyone are far too hung up on the belief that a more expensive ship is winning, my understanding is that smaller more agile ships are far better in dog fights.

Yep -- I've yet to see a newbie sidewinder take out a player's anaconda -- its rather hard when investing just 1m on an anaconda gives you an insta-win button against anything smaller than a Cobra. And to be playing this game for 3 years straight (looking into the future) to have a new player join and jump immediately in the same ship I'm flying isn't just unfair, its as insulting as you are.

But lets talk about fair. 2 players with the same skill, same time invested in the game, same jobs, same everything except one has kids to take care of and the other goes out partying. You're telling me that it is fair that the one that has no kids to take care of gains a superior advantage simply because he has deeper pockets? No, that's not fair, if it was fair, if your logic was sound, the American Super Bowl would be a game of which team had more money to bribe the refs with -- the reason its not is because the stadium become as empty as your logic as soon as it happened.

 

[Nagual]

No. I have limited time. I have some disposable income, but yet no. No. I play for the journey, not the destination. I get satisfaction from getting myself further in the game by playing it. Lack of time is a rubbish argument, as if over the course of a month I manage to play around 20 hours of Elite vs someone else who has played 20 hours in whatever time, then we are both at the same moment in our personal game. Open, Group or solo 20 hours is 20 hours no matter how long it actually took you to play. All buying ships for real cash does is cheat yourself of actual game play.

If you cannot play more than an hour or two a week, great! You've managed two more than none at all. What makes you think that by having a bigger fancy new ship that you won't be sick of grinding once you get that? You will be doing more of this 'grinding' that you speak of, I think you mean playing.

I wonder if there is a online chess game where you can buy extra Queen pieces.. hmmm

 

[Nagual]

I have always been against 'pay to win' but I do see your point

Slightly OT I bet whoever ends up winning the £10k Elite prize is an unemployed dope smoking dole dosser, who can spare 8 hrs a day to play games, rather than a hard working, tax paying family man, that can barely sc up 8hrs gaming time per week.

See it happened again, Sc got turned in Sc, ?

That's a bit of a jump, no? I mean it's not like there aren't any non dope smoking dole dossers, or maybe even just plain unemployed, or retired or Unable to work, or students, housewives / househusbands, part time workers, self employed who can work or play at times they choose...

 

[Conestoga]

I have always been against 'pay to win' but I do see your point, still we all play at our own pace, so what if it takes you five times longer than some unemployed kid down the road to save up for that Python its the journey that counts. Just have fun working towards your goal I say.

Slightly OT, but I bet whoever ends up winning the £10k Elite prize is an unemployed dope smoking dole dosser, who can spare 8 hrs a day to play games, rather than a hard working, tax paying family man, that can barely sc up 8hrs gaming time per week.

See it happened again, Sc got turned in Sc, ?

You have to admit: if a guy can make money playing video games, paying his bills with them, how's it different than any other job? More power to him or her.

 

[Chip Patton]

No. I have limited time. I have some disposable income, but yet no. No. I play for the journey, not the destination. I get satisfaction from getting myself further in the game by playing it. Lack of time is a rubbish argument, as if over the course of a month I manage to play around 20 hours of Elite vs someone else who has played 20 hours in whatever time, then we are both at the same moment in our personal game. Open, Group or solo 20 hours is 20 hours no matter how long it actually took you to play. All buying ships for real cash does is cheat yourself of actual game play.

If you cannot play more than an hour or two a week, great! You've managed two more than none at all. What makes you think that by having a bigger fancy new ship that you won't be sick of grinding once you get that? You will be doing more of this 'grinding' that you speak of, I think you mean playing.

I wonder if there is a online chess game where you can buy extra Queen pieces.. hmmm

Exactly, I have some disposable income but I'm 110% sure I don't have enough to compete with 80% of the younger folks without kids to spend money on. Not only that, but it seems to be a lot more fun when you PVP someone and win and don't have that little text message from the other player, "you paid for your win". Yeah, as it stands I EARNED every ounce of my wins. What really ruffles the feathers is those unemployed on government subsidies sitting at home with 100+ hours to play and money to burn. No. Hell no. If they want to sit at home and game, fine with me, they get a better ship and better skill, fine with me -- they played the game, they earned it in the game. The problem with Pay2Win is its not playing the game to earn it and not everyone who pays earned what they got.

The perpetual problem of pay2win games is the privileged stay privileged and the average and underprivileged stay average and underprivileged. No board game you would play at home would have these rule sets -- it wouldn't be fun. No ball game has these rule sets because it too wouldn't be fun. There is a pattern there, its not fun for the 99% that aren't privileged.

 

[landers]

Honestly what a load of rubbish most of the posts on this . I play in solo , I have a very limited time to play . I would love to have the chance to fly other ships and experience them . With my real life it would take me such a long time to achieve what ship I would love to fly about . I repeat I am in solo. It is my galaxy to explore and if I had the option to buy a ship I wanted or spend about 6 months maybe more grinding then I would jump at the chance to purchase it , so I can experience the game how I want to play, as I keep getting told that's how it is , and if there is no end game to win how can it be pay to win as I am in solo ????. What I do in solo has got nothing to do with any one else and if that's what I want to do then I would jump at the chance . Pay to win argument is total rubbish in solo mode

 

[Nagual]

To everyone who says Just Solo. What you do in solo affects the whole metaverse, so buying ships for cash then playing in solo does affect the game. How much is only known to the Devs who can accurately monitor it.

 

[Kiblams]

Yep -- I've yet to see a newbie sidewinder take out a player's anaconda -- its rather hard when investing just 1m on an anaconda gives you an insta-win button against anything smaller than a Cobra. And to be playing this game for 3 years straight (looking into the future) to have a new player join and jump immediately in the same ship I'm flying isn't just unfair, its as insulting as you are.

But lets talk about fair. 2 players with the same skill, same time invested in the game, same jobs, same everything except one has kids to take care of and the other goes out partying. You're telling me that it is fair that the one that has no kids to take care of gains a superior advantage simply because he has deeper pockets? No, that's not fair, if it was fair, if your logic was sound, the American Super Bowl would be a game of which team had more money to bribe the refs with -- the reason its not is because the stadium become as empty as your logic as soon as it happened.

I'm sorry if you felt I insulted you, I simply can't make sense of your logic at all. Your argument is hinged on the opinion that the more expensive ships are somehow 'winning' the game; something that I unfortunately wholeheartedly disagree with.

 

[Conestoga]

Honestly what a load of rubbish most of the posts on this . I play in solo , I have a very limited time to play . I would love to have the chance to fly other ships and experience them . With my real life it would take me such a long time to achieve what ship I would love to fly about . I repeat I am in solo. It is my galaxy to explore and if I had the option to buy a ship I wanted or spend about 6 months maybe more grinding then I would jump at the chance to purchase it , so I can experience the game how I want to play, as I keep getting told that's how it is , and if there is no end game to win how can it be pay to win as I am in solo ????. What I do in solo has got nothing to do with any one else and if that's what I want to do then I would jump at the chance . Pay to win argument is total rubbish in solo mode

Except for the fact that all modes share the same save, and you can switch to open and back any time you want at the click of the button. Or are you arguing that they should redesign that section of the game, too?

 

[Chip Patton]

I'm sorry if you felt I insulted you, I simply can't make sense of your logic at all. Your argument is hinged on the opinion that the more expensive ships are somehow 'winning' the game; something that I unfortunately wholeheartedly disagree with.

Then you obviously haven't seen an anaconda pvp a sidewinder yet. Lets just bring your logic down to earth for a moment (no pun intended), eventually we're going to be flying (with teams) capital ships -- being there is no reverse on pay2win (once its in the game, there is NO taking it out) be sure you factor that into your equation. In sort, be sure your flag pole is high enough before you run a flag up you can't pull back down.

 

[landers]

Except for the fact that all modes share the same save, and you can switch to open and back any time you want at the click of the button. Or are you arguing that they should redesign that section of the game, too?

its easily done to lock purchased items in a solo mode. So if it can be done where is the issue ?