What do we learn from Lugh?

[Derpster Frey]

He's saying that making the game too easy will kill the game, and it probably will. Which is why they should have nerfed trading and tried to fix the economy, rather than just buffed everything else to match.

I kind of agree that they should have nerfed trading instead of buffing bounties.
But that's too late now, that's something that should have been done before release, you can't fundamentally change a game like that after release.

However, I don't think it'll kill anything, just for the record.

 

[Simi Kusoni]

That would be indeed a step in the right direction, although you'd still have the instancing problems you already mentioned. You'd basically hop in and out of instances to be lucky and encounter a single or just few enemy CMDRs, stepping in a instance full of enemy CMDR's would be suicide.
Why not declare the whole system a battle ground, where you have to choose a side upon entering the system? Circumvents the whole "let's fight for both sides to get double credits" thing and you could force more CMDR's into skirmishes all of the system by interdicting them without gaining fines or bounties. This way WE could choose the battlegrounds and not have static, pre-determined battlefields.

That would be pretty cool, it would make jumping into a fresh site very dangerous though I also imagine there would be gank squads everywhere and solo travel would be very, very difficult

That might end up being a little overkill on the newer guys with smaller ships

How about fighting severely damages your rep with the opposing team? So if you consistently fight for both teams, eventually one side will become hostile to you whichever side you pick?

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I kind of agree that they should have nerfed trading instead of buffing bounties.
But that's too late now, that's something that should have been done before release, you can't fundamentally change a game like that after release.

However, I don't think it'll kill anything, just for the record.

I don't think it will in the short term. But in the long term people tend to tire of games quickly when they've built up near-infinite resources.

 

[Ideas Man]

And for even more people this will kill the game. People of your kind will leave the game anyway as soon as you get the biggest ships available. So yeah, this will basically kill the game in the long run.

'People like me' - I beg your pardon son?

 

[orfeboy]

On topic, I agree, it's sad for the players that the Federation is just gonna come in and smoke the Sons of Conn. Not that there should be autowins in the game, but this seems like an autolose situation. At best it feels like a bunch of bitter players will be the result. Unless this is a springboard for something really politically cool in 1.3 it's kind of disappointing as is.

Speaking as the person who started the Lugh thread and writer of our storyline I say let the chips fall where they may. I want to win but that does not mean that I have the right to win. Lugh has taken on the Federation or should I more accurately say the Federation has taken on Lugh! The fact is it was never going to be a fair fight.

The most eye opening truth I have noticed about all of this are the number of players that instead of fighting on the side of 'players' and what players can actually achieve in this game they seem to prefer to stamp on our sand castle. To working your fingers to the bone on something get rewarded by players seeking a cheap thrill to dismantle it. They are freely within their right to do so but it has thought me a lesson about the nature of human beings as a whole. What is actually more interesting are the statistics that go with that. Very interesting indeed.

It is illogical to me that players offered a chance to make a real mark on the game, a real difference, something players have craved since Gamma would prefer to see to it that we fail. I personally see no reward in that but it is only my opinion.

The community will get what the community wants.

 

[KombattWombatt]

I kind of think the balance is appropriate, as far as feds vs. CSG goes. I'm fighting for the CSG and find that I get the appropriate amount of pvp. They are the underdogs in the fight, and although many times I am forced to run from my instance due to the superior numbers of the feds, I find my spots to grind and take out the occasional fed cmdr.

the operation Dulahan objective is a nice step in the direction of giving the underdog an alternative storyline for success, although it does feel like it's more "pretend" helping than actually having a chance to affect the war. Would be nice if FD could implement more strategies for CSG to try to combat the strength of the Federation

 

[Mack Winston]

On topic, I agree, it's sad for the players that the Federation is just gonna come in and smoke the Sons of Conn. Not that there should be autowins in the game, but this seems like an autolose situation.

The Federation might win the battle, but they might lose the war. History is replete with the strong crushing the underdog, only to regret it despite having won. Iraq was autolose for Saddam Hussein, but look where it got the US and its allies. Nothing but trouble.

 

[theriverlethe]

I think the problem with conflict zones atm is that there's barely enough NPC's to support a single wing. Thus, whenever someone jumps in on the opposing side, he immediately gets "ganked" by players chomping at the bit to find a target. The zones are just more enjoyable in solo or private groups.

 

[Morbad]

There are no incentives for PvP to actually occur in conflict zones at the moment.

Except for the obvious fact that other CMDRs are the greatest threat possible and should be driven off or destroyed posthaste, less they do the same to you while you are otherwise occupied.

 

[CMDR_empyrean190]

The most eye opening truth I have noticed about all of this are the number of players that instead of fighting on the side of 'players' and what players can actually achieve in this game they seem to prefer to stamp on our sand castle.

Well I see it this way, out of game I'm with the CSG since I want to see your efforts come to fruition, as you tried for weeks to turn the system. Ingame I couldn't be more against you, you are terrorists, war-mongers, demagouges and do this all for your personal gains. You don't care for the people of Lugh, its wealth or peace. So I'm naturally inclined to try and put down your "rebellion".

 

[Biggerjohn]

From my experience we need a way to affect capital ships in combat zones.

it may be unreasonable to have players able to destroy capital ships but i think it would be reasonable to target and disable / destroy individual weapons or system forcing the capital ship to leave until repaired.

I would also like to see scripted encounters where you and your friends would have to fight off waves of ships until you kill the boss or defend a target ect.

The mad fur ball we currently have is fun for a short time but not really a changeling as you can choose when to engage or runaway without consequences.

Just my Thoughts

 

[orfeboy]

Well I see it this way, out of game I'm with the CSG since I want to see your efforts come to fruition, as you tried for weeks to turn the system. Ingame I couldn't be more against you, you are terrorists, war-mongers, demagouges and do this all for your personal gains. You don't care for the people of Lugh, its wealth or peace. So I'm naturally inclined to try and put down your "rebellion".

Actually it is three and a half months of slog every day. As for your in-game opinion , that is a pile of misguided lies and you know it!

 

[Derpster Frey]

it may be unreasonable to have players able to destroy capital ships but i think it would be reasonable to target and disable / destroy individual weapons or system forcing the capital ship to leave until repaired.

Unless something changed, you can get it to leave.
But it takes some firepower and time.

 

[Briarée]

Why not given decent bonds rewards for killing enemy commanders?

There are no incentives for PvP to actually occur in conflict zones at the moment.

Lots of enemy in the zone stopping you farming? Warp out and back in on their team! Someone attacking you? Just run!



Seriously, today I attacked two vipers, a cobra and a vulture in my vulture. They all ran (although one did die), and in site after site it's just PvE farming. Even the limited PvP that does occur is usually just people warping in and ganking what they can before anyone jumps out.

Add decent payouts for killing fellow players, and suddenly people have a reason to kill each other. Sure, it adds another money source to the game but the added ship destruction would probably cancel that out as a money sink.

that is mostly because of really poor designed mechanic making anyone more or less immune to be killed if they so whishes.

tried interdicting, no way you can catch ANYTHING.

ppl just submit -> boost -> fsd out, absolutely no way whatsoever to keep them, this is broken, same goes for the various combat area.

and before anyone scream about killing the opponetns drive, try it, tell me if you are able to even down the opponent shield before he jump out.

and mass lock is broken, since not effective should one choose to jump to another system.


tldr: game doesn't support pvp at all in it's current iteration, fix it or loose pvp player

 

[Kaeldian]

Speaking as the person who started the Lugh thread and writer of our storyline I say let the chips fall where they may. I want to win but that does not mean that I have the right to win. Lugh has taken on the Federation or should I more accurately say the Federation has taken on Lugh! The fact is it was never going to be a fair fight.

The most eye opening truth I have noticed about all of this are the number of players that instead of fighting on the side of 'players' and what players can actually achieve in this game they seem to prefer to stamp on our sand castle. To working your fingers to the bone on something get rewarded by players seeking a cheap thrill to dismantle it. They are freely within their right to do so but it has thought me a lesson about the nature of human beings as a whole. What is actually more interesting are the statistics that go with that. Very interesting indeed.

It is illogical to me that players offered a chance to make a real mark on the game, a real difference, something players have craved since Gamma would prefer to see to it that we fail. I personally see no reward in that but it is only my opinion.

The community will get what the community wants.

I feel sorry for you if you are just now learning that. That's a bitter lesson I learned a decade ago gaming.

As for making your mark in the game - don't get to emotionally invested in that kind of thing. If there's one thing I learned in the past decade and a half doing the MMO thing, nobody gives a rats ass what mark you made in "MMO from 5 years ago". Do you care I once took part in some of the biggest relic battles in DAOC? Probably not. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if half the people here don't even know what DAOC either. They don't know the wonderful community of people I had on the Bors server - and nobody cares.

Care only for your memories and bonds of the people that fight alongside of you. Everything else is transient.




At the topic at hand. Here's a few things we can take away from the event

- FD is not afraid to play with asynchronous goals for opposing factions, and I really like that. Just need to work on tweaking the goals to be reachible by both sides (I think with the current capital ship dynamics, it wouldn't of hurt anybody to make the CSM goal more reachible by reducing the number of military plans they need to reach their goals)
- Game needs something to detect AFK players and start targetting them more aggressively. Perhaps close a few exploitable holes that you can use to hide in the Capital ship to start.
- I personally found the CSM community post confusing. At first, I thought it was for Fed players. Took me more than 1 read to realize it was actually a hiijacked transmission. I wonder how many non-forum readers who would of picked up the CSM cause didn't realize that....

 

[Sim Maker]

I feel sorry for you if you are just now learning that. That's a bitter lesson I learned a decade ago gaming.

As for making your mark in the game - don't get to emotionally invested in that kind of thing. If there's one thing I learned in the past decade and a half doing the MMO thing, nobody gives a rats ass what mark you made in "MMO from 5 years ago". Do you care I once took part in some of the biggest relic battles in DAOC? Probably not. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if half the people here don't even know what DAOC either. They don't know the wonderful community of people I had on the Bors server - and nobody cares.

Care only for your memories and bonds of the people that fight alongside of you. Everything else is transient.




At the topic at hand. Here's a few things we can take away from the event

- FD is not afraid to play with asynchronous goals for opposing factions, and I really like that. Just need to work on tweaking the goals to be reachible by both sides (I think with the current capital ship dynamics, it wouldn't of hurt anybody to make the CSM goal more reachible by reducing the number of military plans they need to reach their goals)
- Game needs something to detect AFK players and start targetting them more aggressively. Perhaps close a few exploitable holes that you can use to hide in the Capital ship to start.
- I personally found the CSM community post confusing. At first, I thought it was for Fed players. Took me more than 1 read to realize it was actually a hiijacked transmission. I wonder how many non-forum readers who would of picked up the CSM cause didn't realize that....

That's a really good point..........who knew?
.
For sure I am "Playing it wrong", but the only reason I knew there was action in Lugh, was from the forums.....I wanted to see a cap ship so headed over....agian, learned from the forums. If we cna agree that the forums make up a very small percentage of the people who own or play Elite....then a lot of players, just might not know.

 

[Midian27]

I've had a maxed out anaconda for at least a month now, I still play every day and have tons of fun. Mostly in my vulture, so I don't get the argument that having an end game ship makes the game boring.

 

[Junky Juke]

Why not seriously try to destroy or chase the capital away, by spawning several Pythons or Anacondas at the same time (and I'm not speaking three or four like now, I'm thinking 15-20 at once)?

Because many low end PC owners (like me) would see their machines blow up? I'm already having terrible audio issues and crashes to desktop when fighting near cap ships. I can only imagine what would happen is 20 multi-turret ships were jumping in to kill the cap.

Anyway I agree with the concept of making war more tactical and mission based. By now it's only a grinding fest.

 

[Ideas Man]

Because many low end PC owners (like me) would see their machines blow up? I'm already having terrible audio issues and crashes to desktop when fighting near cap ships. I can only imagine what would happen is 20 multi-turret ships were jumping in to kill the cap.

Anyway I agree with the concept of making war more tactical and mission based. By now it's only a grinding fest.

It'd be a bad world if devs designed games around people trying to play games on Aunt Brenda's old office Dell.
No allowances should be made for people who don't invest in a good gaming PC.

 

[Weps]

In think the problem with conflict zones atm is that there's barely enough NPC's to support a single wing. Thus, whenever someone jumps in on the opposing side, he immediately gets "ganked" by players chomping at the bit to find a target. The zones are just more enjoyable in solo or private groups.

This.

This is why combat zones are very one sided. One or two wings on the same side and you end up with 4-8 players dominating the enemy field, taking out everything in sight. NPC which are on their side only bolster their numbers, while enemy NPCs get taken out faster than they can spawn.

This leads to players claiming that combat zones are boring and fighting over targets. This leads to kill stealing, friendly fire and whatnot.

In the meantime, opposing players trying to join the instance only find themselves in front of a wall of red contacts, with the only option to quit the instance, or quit the game (since the game will place you in the same instance on re-entry) or end up playing a cat and mouse game (if they have a fast ship) which can be fun, in the beginning, but gets boring fast and leads to no combat bonds.

In short, NPCs should be used to balance player presence in an instance, by having ships of appropriate strength and size either spawn or supercuise away accordingly.

 

[Junky Juke]

It'd be a bad world if devs designed games around people trying to play games on Aunt Brenda's old office Dell.
No allowances should be made for people who don't invest in a good gaming PC.

Ok sorry, lI was not so clear. Let's say MID end ok? (My PC is fine, everything under 2000 bucks is low end for me).
I can run ED at high res and have 45-60 fps... but the audio performance SUCKS. Fdev have to first optimize the audio engine and then he can throw anacondas at you.

Anyway I'm going out of topic.