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And we are going to complain about it until heat death of the universe.
i never expected less
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This inherent need to use sticks and stones to beat the crap out of each other instead of using them to build bridges is one of the reasons i think humanity is the evolutions biggest mistake and just a waste of space and ressources... and thereby one of the reasons i don't play open
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Your original point, the one I responded to was, and I quote:
Now, if you're now trying to say that you were only arguing that because the idea that NPCs can be as dangerous as players is 'ridiculous', then you really are saying that even the most incompetent, incapable player pilot is better than even the best NPC pilot in the most kitted-out and powerful ship, and your answer to the question I posed you is actually 'the NPC wing'. Now THAT is ridiculous.
Dunno. Maybe I am really that good, a god of war in disguise, unaware of his own incredible skill. I mean, I kill Elite Anacondas without having my shields broken in a Vulture, and that's without cells. It surely can't be that you all who keep dying to NPCs do so because you fly crappy ships and I fly a pimped out killing machine. It must be all down to skill. I understand now. All this time NPCs were dying to me, I have literally never died to an NPC and I thought that's because they're a pushover.
Only one thing bothering me... in warzones, I kill and kill and kill NPCs for hours on end. Everything from an Eagle to Anaconda gets vaporized without even scratching me.
Then a couple of players show up and instead of blowing them apart like the 500 NPCs before them, I have to run with 27% hull left. Weird. If I'm a god of war, what are they?
Better than you. What isn't true is that all players are as good as they are. Or as good as you are. Or as good as the NPCs are. Which is the point you have missed yet again.
the best worst thread.
Yeah, well if you knew anything about me I might actually consider your feedback. As it is, you are feedbacking on nothing but your own imagination.
You know my total player kill count since Premium Beta in this game? Two.
Yeah, two ships. Both in warzones. Oooh, what a bloodthirsty killer I am, totally hooked on blowing up players left and right and bathing in their tears of rage. I actually spend most of my time either hunting for good deals in the market or hunting fat NPC bounties. Might have tried hunting for player pirates, but with most of those listed on the boards being in solo, not much point to that.
Solo kill counts in EvE? One. And that's in five-six years I've played the game. Most success I had in the game was amassing billions doing station trading. That's PvP with lots of spreadsheets and a calculator involved.
My avatar is a relic of good times I had roleplaying a freedom fighter in EvE. That's why I keep it. Plus, looks badass.
As I said to others, I am not interested in your fears, or reasons you play solo, nor your ideas as to why I say what I say. Play solo all you want. I don't care. But do not mess with my game. Stay in solo and mind your own business.
What we want out of Open, is a fair game. We do not want to deal with mode hoppers, with ghosters or combat loggers. And if FD wants to have competing community goals, they should at least make an effort that it is a fair contest.
Well that's your opinion. I will play where I want, when I want, however I want. You are the master of nothing, least of all me. Good luck in all your endeavors. PS you and I view, "Badass" very differently.
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i never expected less
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This inherent need to use sticks and stones to beat the crap out of each other instead of using them to build bridges is one of the reasons i think humanity is the evolutions biggest mistake and just a waste of space and ressources... and thereby one of the reasons i don't play open
Hey Jor o/. This one is pretty loud. Doesn't seem to want to be friends. LOL
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Do you feel threatened like this all the time? Must be tiring.
We both will play only in ways FD allow. They do listen to what players are saying, though. Which is why I and others are voicing our opinions.
You seem to take issue with that.
Not at all, but what you insist on is taking a fringe example, something anomalous, like a player so incapable he keeps getting killed by sidewinders, or an NPC so powerful it feels like being attacked by an ace player, and try to portray that as the norm.
The norm is that the majority of players find NPCs much easier than players. The norm is that most players are more skilled than the most skilled NPC.
If you want proof, take a look at the user feedback. See many threads asking for NPC difficulty to be toned down? Nope. You see the opposite, asking for NPC difficulty to be upped, and for glaring faults in the AI to be fixed.
So if you want to insist that NPCs = players go ahead, but your argument is hollow. People farm those things en masse. You don't farm dangerous things.
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@TheSpaceTexan, love that banner, hilarious!
Where on earth did you get that I feel threatened? You quite honestly have nothing, or possess anything that could ever threaten me, an anyway. I'll voice my opinion as well. I like the way things are! I support the way the game has been engineered, and think the mode switching as it was originally designed from day one of the kick starter is brilliant.
As I do give you credence, and have respect for your opinion, I would would always defend your right to it. With that said, I will openly tell you this. I think your opinions are to say the least "Dated in the past", and "a very old, non inventive way of thinking". They also illustrate to me, "that you are completely consumed by your entrenched self limiting beliefs". In other words there will be no new innovative ideas coming from you, just old wore out ones.
Now don't go away mad, if you feel the need say something really mean to me, go ahead. This way you can indulge yourself, satisfy yourself, please consider yourself the victor in our exchange if it makes you feel better. Good luck in all your endeavors, no seriously I mean it. Your gonna need it.
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You ooze it man. But that's your problem, not mine, I won't be wasting any more time explaining your issues to you.
Innovation for the sake of innovation is not necessarily a good thing. And yeah, we differ in our opinions. An additional difference is that I'm trying to back my arguments up by logic and facts, while in return I get statements like the above which are posited without any kind of grounding. Why, exactly, do you think my ideas are dated in the past? Fair gameplay is a dated concept? Do explain.
Americans would call this statement "passive-aggressive". How about we refrain from pointless statements like this in the future? If you want to discuss the topic at hand, I'm all ears.
Sorry, my actual in-game experience, not something assumed or impressions got from seeing threads on the forums is that what you label 'fringe examples' are not really all that 'fringe', and what you call 'the norm' isn't. Good player pilots are better than the best NPCs. Bad player pilots are worse than the worst NPCs. The only thing is that players are a bit more unpredictable as to whether they'll be good or bad - you might find your ass handed to you by a 'Mostly Harmless' player, or, alternatively, find an 'Elite' player pretty easy.
EDIT:Just realised actually - interesting little slip, that - 'an NPC so powerful it feels like being attacked by an ace player'. If NPCs can attack like 'ace players', even if it's a 'fringe example', that would suggest that these 'ace NPCs' are on a par with 'ace players'. Which is kinda what you're trying to argue is definitely NOT the case.
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And yet, we still have close to zero threads on how NPCs are terribly dangerous. Here and there a player will wonder about a particular situation, but if your assessment was correct, then a lot more new players would be complaining about difficulty of combat.
They're not. They're complaining more about crashing their ships while docking than being killed by skilled NPCs.
As I said, the simple fact that people farm solo in combat sites tells you all you need to know about NPC difficulty. There is no way anyone would be able to farm zones where you can have up to 20 player-level opponents trying to kill you and your side.
I just checked the first five pages of the General forum. What did I find? I found:
1 thread saying that PvE combat didn't require any skill - as long as you're put in a 'nice instance'.
1 thread saying that, in PvP combat, it was too difficult to strip someone's shields.
1 thread saying that, in PvE combat, NPC Anacondas might be cheating because they seem to be able to out-turn Vipers.
So where does that leave your metric, as there seems to be just as few threads complaining about PvP combat being too hard as there is about PvE combat being too hard? If I were to apply your logic, I would conclude PvP combat is also way too easy. I don't actually think that way, though - I place my impressions of the game on...erm...the game. Not the forums.
The ability to change "modes" has been a part of the game since day 1, I would say it has to stay, many people bought the game because this "feature" was included.
PS
FD said they ain't changing it.
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Many people agree with you, is almost like FD are making the game they want to play.
They built it into the game from the start, its like they decided these things were core features, and then people bought the game based on what they said they were making.
Of course others just bought it without any research and think the game should change to fit them.
Seems about evenly matched to me.
I think the switching modes are the most intelligent thing i ever see, first i hate pvp, because 1 im bad at it 2 when there is pvp there is only people who loves to screw over other guys again and again and again, if you like that there is Eve online with people who loves to scam, cheat, steal and kill and be ** all the time, because they like that and they enjoy is like they are little psychopaths, there is other MMO that have that kind of people Connan, you cant go 10 m without someone who is trying to kill you, is terrible and tiredsome.
I like to be left alone i dont want to worry about that kind of stuff, or having any after me just because it enjoys the adrenaling rush for killing anything in his way.
Now the comunnity goals
I really doubt that kind of stuff is actually affected by player in solo mode i doubt the quantity of people in solo overcomes those in open play and if it does is because people like to play in solo or group mode without the psycopaths trying to screw everyone else.
So i say Being able to switch modes is the most intellingent thing a game developer has ever done.
I like to be left alone i dont want to worry about that kind of stuff, or having any after me just because it enjoys the adrenaling rush for killing anything in his way.
Now the comunnity goals
I really doubt that kind of stuff is actually affected by player in solo mode i doubt the quantity of people in solo overcomes those in open play and if it does is because people like to play in solo or group mode without the psycopaths trying to screw everyone else.
So i say Being able to switch modes is the most intellingent thing a game developer has ever done.
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That's the problem. You are only considering your impressions. I'm trying to asses the state of the game in general. And the general consensus right now is that:
A) PvE combat is too easy
B) PvP combat is too skewed in favor of defense (which is part of the reason why PvE combat is even easier)
Which is exactly what you found. Since we have multiple statements from the AI programmer herself that the AI scripts are not modified to give NPCs abilities players don't have - at least where ship handling is concerned - I'm inclined to dismiss that third thread as a case of lacking skill. Anyone who has spent any amount of time killing Anacondas in a smaller ship knows you do not out turn them, you hover around them using directional thrusters and try to keep to their belly or rear. They're slow, you're fast, their turning radius is therefore smaller than yours.
It's not just the numbers, it's also the efficiency. Open players are often interrupted in their efforts by enemy players. When a red player pops into your warzone, you better drop everything and deal with it. Which means either spending time to kill/chase them away, or run. If you get killed, which is far more likely to happen when fighting players instead of NPCs, you lose all your progress. If you have to run, you cannot score points at all.
Solo players don't have to deal with any of that.
Well, since you, in a typical passive aggressive fashion, consider Open PvP players "psychopaths", I'm not surprised you have that opinion. Of course, the fact that by completing opposing community goals in solo you're screwing every single Open player out there that trying to do the same, won't bother you, because it doesn't affect you. So much for this vaunted "community".
You're including Private Group in that as well, yes?
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