Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]

[Kaeldian]

I'm all for fairness (and stopped arguing this a long time ago)

But I have to say - it seems the years of people putting up with being "victims of griefing Pkers" has created a mentality of "Screw you" anytime somebody perceived as part of that group has a even semi-reasonable request.

 

[Antmax]

Did some PVP in Mobius today.

The lots of Masters and Experts running big ships, not knowing what to do when its not an NP. Was a real eye opener

Spoiler.. They crumbled

Your not supposed to do PvP outside of conflict zones. Two against one is hardly a fair fight either. I hear there were two of you. <oops, name removed> being the other party.

Not very sporting when it's a PvE group and against the rules.

 

[Flip]

I also just joined a group called Mobius, which i believed was player vs everybody..

Yeah, right!

 

[DaveB]

I think anyone arguing against the mode switching needs to remember a few important points:

1. It has been a deliberate design from very early in development, if not day 1. You knew this when you signed up for this game (or you were poor in your research). Suck it up.

It's poor design that's going to end up hurting the game long term. We can and do suck it up, but what does that change?

As far as the game design is concerned it changes just as much as you complaining ad nauseam does. Nothing. It accomplishes this much more efficiently though since it does so without the unnecessary forum noise, leaving folks much less likely to ignore-list you and making your voice more effective when you have something to say on a subject where your input actually matters.

Sometimes an issue is sufficiently settled that continuous griping that it wasn't settled in a way you approve of is counterproductive for all concerned. Voices that are consistently strident on the "losing" side of a debate, long after the debate is over are less listened to when they actually have something of significance to say. You do not like this piece of the games design and you feel it was a bad decision to include it in the first place and another bad decision to stand by it and not change it. We get that. We respect your opinion and your right to hold it whether we agree with it or not. However, the issue is decided. The debate is over. The three modes WILL continue to share a single universe. Players WILL be able to freely switch between them. Content such as CGs WILL NOT be different or carry different results depending on the mode.

You're an intelligent guy, a decent gamer and I'd rather hear your opinions on subjects where they can do some good, not on this lost cause.

 

[Flip]

Your not supposed to do PvP outside of conflict zones. Two against one is hardly a fair fight either. I hear there were two of you. [REDACTED] being the other party.

Not very sporting when it's a PvE group and against the rules.

Don't expect any sportsmanship from those guys. I'm sure they only attack when they're sure to outnumber and outgun their opponent. Probably over-compensating their IRL inferiority complexes.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

A lot less fun that expected, very few players, most combat logged (which is an exploit and against FD rules) and some used very naughty language.

I also just joined a group called Mobius, which i believed was player vs everybody.. but now i know better.

Even if I had of known, I signed no agreement with Mobius, nor used any exploits or cheats. I didn't even at any point grief.
I used a standard game mechanic to inject a little play my way into a group that accepted me in.

The lack of player interaction in there was terrible, may as well play solo. So I will be sticking to Open.

What a scummy attitude. Ganking players in a private PvE group and wondering why they "crumbled" and 1st I thought maybe it was consensual but your post above proves not. And you have the cheek to moan about combat logging. So much I want to say but would get me a warning at best!. You and people like you ruin the game

 

[arxerisdam]

It's poor design that's going to end up hurting the game long term. We can and do suck it up, but what does that change?



You know, when discussing fairness, invoking majority is really not the good way to go about it.



And at the same time, it is ok to expect Open players to choose between being effective and playing the way they want?

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You're welcome, thank you for supporting my argument.

MMM i think you need to go back to eve online, you whine to much and your actitude is more for that game model, where everyone is in the same instance universe.

this is not eve online thank god, and you are the only responsible for choosing a hard difficult to play this game, besides you are playing a game that was back up by a lot of people to have a solo game play and enjoy all features the game will have.

I dont know why PvPers think they are something special to deserve anything extra for playing in open space.

Really your arguments are bad and not solid you only are based on opinions instead of facts and numbers.

If you choose to play open space with everyone else deal with that, but really dont spect anything special just because you are taking the hardway or try to ruin the gameplay for other people.

 

[Rhaze]

Did some PVP in Mobius today.

The lots of Masters and Experts running big ships, not knowing what to do when its not an NP. Was a real eye opener

Spoiler.. They crumbled

Yea, jackasses like you are the exact reason people join groups like Mobius. The proof of how bad you are is all over the Facebook group. You went onto a PvE group that has express rules forbidding non-conflict zone PvP and proceeded to Interdict random players and kill/rob them all while having a buddy ([REDACTED]) tag along with you. 2v1 against unsuspecting PvE players. Bravo moron, bravo.

 

[Seonid]

And at the same time, it is ok to expect Open players to choose between being effective and playing the way they want?

Is it OK to expect players in a Private Group with specific rules to play the way they want? That was just proven to not be the case wasn't it?
Proves the point really, doesn't it.

 

[Rune]

A lot less fun that expected, very few players, most combat logged (which is an exploit and against FD rules) and some used very naughty language.

I also just joined a group called Mobius, which i believed was player vs everybody.. but now i know better.

Even if I had of known, I signed no agreement with Mobius, nor used any exploits or cheats. I didn't even at any point grief.
I used a standard game mechanic to inject a little play my way into a group that accepted me in.

The lack of player interaction in there was terrible, may as well play solo. So I will be sticking to Open.

Good, don't forget to shut the door on the way out.

To search and find a group called "Mobius" you would have come across it by either seeing the signature banners some of us use, or the thread in the groups section. Both of which show it's player versus environment and the thread is very clear on the rules. The group is open on accepting requests to join as it presumes everyone has a sense of decency and not act like and idiot unless they prove otherwise like you have.

I've taken part in some great group events when playing on the Mobius group, but then I've never played pirate with my buddy (I've seen the screens from another player you targeted), and demanded 100 tonnes of cargo from players in a non PvP group.

 

[Mobius]

Did some PVP in Mobius today.

The lots of Masters and Experts running big ships, not knowing what to do when its not an NP. Was a real eye opener

Spoiler.. They crumbled

how very mature of you, I bet you feel pretty grown up now.

 

[arxerisdam]

Good, don't forget to shut the door on the way out.

To search and find a group called "Mobius" you would have come across it by either seeing the signature banners some of us use, or the thread in the groups section. Both of which show it's player versus environment and the thread is very clear on the rules. The group is open on accepting requests to join as it presumes everyone has a sense of decency and not act like and idiot unless they prove otherwise like you have.

I've taken part in some great group events when playing on the Mobius group, but then I've never played pirate with my buddy (I've seen the screens from another player you targeted), and demanded 100 tonnes of cargo from players in a non PvP group.

Like i say psycopaths

 

[Rune]

Like i say psycopaths

Nah, psychopaths are generally highly intelligent.

 

[arxerisdam]

Nah, psychopaths are generally highly intelligent.

Well at least they think they are intelligent, but i get your point.

 

[Seonid]

Like i say psycopaths

Not at all, it's just CODE doing what they do (when not trotting out 1950s Disney tropes) which also proves that the different game modes are both wanted and needed by some players and therefore very unlikely to change.

 

[Meritz]

You sound like someone who likes to use big words, but doesn't know what they actually mean. Someone could have a HUGE cognitive capacity, and know everything there is to know about numerous different subjects - and still be an utterly crap pilot in this game. The question actually is whether you can definitively say PvP combat is harder than PvE combat, and the answer is, and will always be, 'it depends on who you're fighting' (unless, of course, FD, for some reason, gives this game's AI a fairly severe lobotomy, and, by the sounds of things, they're looking to actually do the reverse).

Of course, that is why I said "average". You avoided answering the questions - of course you did.

I'll ask again. I'll even modify the question to suit your comment:

Are the piloting skills and game-related cognitive capacities of the average player greater than those of a piece of code?

 

[arxerisdam]

... which also proves that the different game modes are both wanted and needed by some players and therefore very unlikely to change.

Thats true

 

[Meritz]

I dont know why PvPers think they are something special to deserve anything extra for playing in open space.

It's the opposite. As the game is designed, it is the solo players who are treated as something special. But I'm not surprised that you cannot see it, this kind of hypocrisy seems to be firmly embedded in the kind of passive-aggressive PvE mindset many here share.

We're not out to get you. We don't care how you play. All we want is equal opportunity to affect community goals, and the game right now favours solo/private PvE groups heavily in that regard. That's not fair, and that's what I'm arguing about.

 

[Asp Explorer]

It's the opposite. As the game is designed, it is the solo players who are treated as something special. But I'm not surprised that you cannot see it, this kind of hypocrisy seems to be firmly embedded in the kind of passive-aggressive PvE mindset many here share.

We're not out to get you. We don't care how you play. All we want is equal opportunity to affect community goals, and the game right now favours solo/private PvE groups heavily in that regard. That's not fair, and that's what I'm arguing about.

But that's just it - some players are out to get other players, for a multitude of reasons. Wether that is a good or a bad thing is up to the individuals concerned, and both sides are free to take steps to ensure that their preferred gameplay style is available to them at all times.

Of course, someone determined to not play with others has more methods available to them to ensure that is the case. Those that are determined to force themselves upon others have fewer options, and sometimes the results are not what they would prefer to see happen.

 

[Meritz]

Is it OK to expect players in a Private Group with specific rules to play the way they want? That was just proven to not be the case wasn't it?
Proves the point really, doesn't it.

What, one player invading and breaking the rules of an arbitrary group proves your point? In a discussion involving the entirety of the playerbase you'll base your generalizations on the actions of one. What, is Mobius under massive PvP invasion all day, every day? Come on.

And I'm still waiting for a serious answer to my question.

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But that's just it - some players are out to get other players, for a multitude of reasons. Wether that is a good or a bad thing is up to the individuals concerned, and both sides are free to take steps to ensure that their preferred gameplay style is available to them at all times.

And do tell me where have I or others said that they should not be allowed to do this? Have I called for solo mode to be terminated?

Or have I called for a new ruleset which takes gameplay differences of solo and open modes into account, specifically in the context of community goals progression, in order for ALL players to be treated equally and have an equal chance of scoring points, ranking in the goals and contributing to them.

Read the above and tell me where I am in the wrong.