The Old Elite IV speculation thread

..

  • .

    Votes: 36 100.0%
  • .

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    36
So his claim to fame is now being "head of Kinectimals studio". Shudder!

I wonder how many people will be playing Kinectimals in 5 years, let alone 25.

Several miljions unless mankind doesn't reproduce so no litte kids aren't around.
Kinectimals casual game is a save ecoomical bussnes goal. Its vey healthy.

A hardcore game in nice market like space sims.
Most game sites don't have filters for that genre.

So if DB go for next Elite it would be a huge risk. Would go for high funding but more profesional bargin bin independend project for a niche market.

Pushin orginality nextgen gaming is very risky and that what the problem might be with The outsider.
Then there is this world wide economical crisis wich do hit the game industry to.
 
That is a brilliant line...

Thanks Steve, Like me (and Steve Have and others), you've been around this forum since it started 5 long years ago. Sad to see the dream die, but thanks for your brilliant FrontierAstro website (I've tried oolite, FF3D etc thanks to it) your Hubble pictures are always my desktop!
So I'll keep dropping by the site to see how you guys are. But I'm sad Frontier is so diminished, scraping by on the latest Kinemectals add-on when they started with such vision.

"So if DB go for next Elite it would be a huge risk"

Yes of course! When was anything great done by not taking risks? Which crowd-pleasing Focus Group led project was ever bold, original, groundbreaking in the way Elite was? I'm not knocking it, it's just sad to see the ambition brought so low.

So good luck David and Frontier, thanks for bringing us some great times, and bringing a nice bunch of guys (both genders!) together on this forum.
 
Risky Business Or Is It?

Time for a rant methinks! :D

**Rant Mode Engaged**

Yes indeed, the risk is there, but there are proven ways to minimise it.

Here are 3 possibilities.

Firstly, Frontier could go the "Doom" route by issuing a free shareware version of Elite IV with most of the features in the game but limited in the size of its galaxy, missions, ships ect. A big demo if you like. Then open a secure site where you can buy the full version after interest has been drummed up.

The good points of doing this is that it generates tons of interest as everyone can try it for free. The downside is that they must have the real fully featured game waiting in the wings. Can the shareware version generate enough interest..................?

Another way is the "Minecraft" route. Issue an alpha version and encourage people to buy it (perhaps with a discount for early support) with the promise that, with enough purchases, further development will go on.

This is good because the amount of resources Frontier put into the game depends on the take up of the first alpha. This might appear to be the least risky option from Frontier's point of view.

However, there is a bad side to this route, if there is not enough take up, but still a healthy showing from the "die-hard" elite fans, there could be a lot of anger in the Elite community if the game dies. Likewise if there is enough support at the outset but development slows or stalls. Frontier might well be locked into doing this or suffer the wraith of the community.

Is this a conducive atmosphere to create a ground breaking game? It might encourage a rushed, ill thought out game. Basically, not the deep meaningful game we all wish for.

In either case, the Elite community will feel abandoned, used or frustrated on the lack of progress toward that seemingly impossible goal of a "true" Elite game.

But let's be honest here people, dont some of you feel that already? Not a lot to lose in going down this route?

Note that in both of the above examples, publishers are circumvented, every penny the game might make, goes straight to Frontier Developments. That alone must appeal to them.

You could say, in both examples, the risk is reduced somewhat, if no one takes up the shareware or alpha versions, it dies, simple as that and Frontier are still in a position to continue making its other games. Also, if it did fail, they could say "we tried and no one wanted it so now everyone can stop harping on about it" The "Elite issue" would finally be closed forever.

Also, :rolleyes: *cough*.......there is a third route...............:eek:
They could buy a license to use the Infinity engine then "Elitise" it. This would save on creating an engine from scratch for the game but it could also mean heavy license fees. How would some of you feel if Elite IV was little more than an Infinity mod?

It can be done people, the options are there with their own pros and cons. The real questions are, has Frontier the will to do it and would we as a community come out and support it no matter what route Frontier took?

**Rant Mode Dis-engaged**

Frontier needs the will, but we as fans need faith too ;)
 
Last edited:
I know I'd support it.

I think the Minecraft sales model is a great one and I can see it being used a lot in the future.

I totally understand why Frontier has gone down the Kinectimals route, and I'm certain they were asked to write Disneyland rather than it coming from an idea in-house. And no-one is going to turn down work these days.

The cancellation of The Outsider isn't too much of an issue either - there's one fact that people overlook, in that, it might not have been very good. Publishers might not have wanted to take it up, it'd be competing against the likes of GTA, Red Dead and Assassins Creed and if it didn't look as good, well, why put money into it.

In fact a new Elite game wouldn't have as much competition. Infinity's biggest problem is that it's not Elite. Personally, I'm still holding out - heck if a new Syndicate game is getting made then there's still hope.
 
:)

I knew that would upset you console haters out there. But before you fret too much, some FPS games can be quite good. Mass Effect for example and The Darkness was a brilliant story lead FPS (which also happened to be made by the company doing this new Syndicate game).

I've also read they are going to do a four player co-op mode where you can go back and do the original levels from the Amiga but in FPS with the updated graphics.

I must admit I was a bit upset too when I realised it wasn't going to be RTS, but, after reading a bit more about it, I am actually looking forward to this new game...at least it is getting made. ;)
 
ME is an action RPG to my mind, not a FPS.

The whole thing about syndicate is having a squad of guys and developing them as the game goes on. I can't see how this could work within a FPS framework. But admittedly i am a died-in-the-wool doom-sayer when it comes to games.
 
Also, :rolleyes: *cough*.......there is a third route...............:eek:
They could buy a license to use the Infinity engine then "Elitise" it. This would save on creating an engine from scratch for the game but it could also mean heavy license fees. How would some of you feel if Elite IV was little more than an Infinity mod?

It can be done people, the options are there with their own pros and cons. The real questions are, has Frontier the will to do it and would we as a community come out and support it no matter what route Frontier took?

**Rant Mode Dis-engaged**

Frontier needs the will, but we as fans need faith too ;)

Dunno mate - Infinity has been very quiet of late... I'd also have to say that I'm not a huge fan of the fractal generation of the planetary surfaces - it always seems to ignore natural geological activity like tectonic plate movement and fault lines that are generally responsible for forming mountain ranges, volcanoes and the like. The end result are some pretty unrealistically generated formations. Complaining about that is very much like looking a gift horse in the mouth but it irks me nonetheless.
 
Well, to be honest Steve fractal generation or not, at least it is (kind of) out there and looking for something useful to do. Really though, I don't think David Braben would go for this as I suspect he already has an engine and would rather avoid licence entanglements. I mean he must have SOMETHING after all this time, even if it is far from anywhere near finished. At least I hope he does!................................................................ :S
 
Well, to be honest Steve fractal generation or not, at least it is (kind of) out there and looking for something useful to do. Really though, I don't think David Braben would go for this as I suspect he already has an engine and would rather avoid licence entanglements. I mean he must have SOMETHING after all this time, even if it is far from anywhere near finished. At least I hope he does!................................................................ :S

Oh I agree - it's less a criticism and more an observation. I'm sure it's not too much of a step to create randomised tectonic plates and then use the fractal generation to create formations around them. That way at least you get definite mountain ranges and valleys as well as well defined plateaus and plains. Planet landing has always been a real strong aspect of environmental immersion as it gives you that transitional scale feel between space and your destination/home. It strikes me as an important thing to get right.

Regarding Frontiers engine - it exists 'allegedly' in the form of The Outsider but I'm not sure how keen on a 6-7 year old engine (likely to be over a decade to a dozen years old by the time it sees the light of day) driving a game that by all rights should be as seminal in it's genre as it's predecessors were.

I'm past being ready to settle on a rehashed or re-imagined version of Frontier E2/3. I want it to be everything that it should be and I guarantee that David is in exactly the same mind. There is no room for a half cocked attempt at this and productions houses would not accept anything less than brilliance.

My only concern is that with the pressure of having to create something seminal, something different and needing to stand out in the industry, game play and storyline will suffer for complexity and unintuitive game mechanic.
 
if goal is to fill galacy with planets,tectonic plates is a rarity.
So it schould be a optional factor with 1 promile to 2% probability.

As for Elite be a sucses it mass aim at the masses wich means be very accesable more fast pace aktion.
Freeware is more a indigame solution wich work well in the old day where genres where started and project and team where small so the game industry was very accesable to make something commercial size.
The difference between a commander Keen and angrybird now to a Crysis or a Metro2033.

With self funding in those old days a shareware with $10.000 own funding wil do.
But publisher with have now to day do multimilion funding don't do shareware.

The current mass market crowed is different. Gaming is more common and no nerd thing anymore. Consoles rule the target market.

So 500.000 was big sucses in the nerd PC target market. Now 2miljoin is nothing special. But hard needed to get even with thos high investments.

Don't expect anything ground braking. the statert the genre. Wich is very normal in a day a new device get in to market and hardware get enough powerfull new game posibilitys can be don such as realtime 3D.
But we are far down the game industry evolution and the ammo and room for innovation is thin. And with large investment the risk to high. So it just another sequell thing like the rest of the game industry.

I was a air combat flight simmer in those old day's 80386 then FpS came en rTs. RPG first was MassEffect. Privateer was my first space roam game.
And some space fighter action shooters.

Never played Elite so form me they just only have to make a decent game. with in this genre that entertain me. Not bore me. And currently populair, no MMO.

But the latest in this genre I played Xseries from X2 and the latest X3:TC.
A complex but complicated game.

X-rebirth they might go more in the direction of Elite. It will be truly a rebirth of the series.

But first play Rage and then BF3 and MW3 then ME3 and Xrebirth. etc
 
there's a simple answer to this really

ugh..

Dear Frontier.co.uk; It's been nearly 20 years since FFE.. just RELEASE THE SOURCE CODE already. there can't POSSIBLY be anything in it that's relevant to your today's business.

Seriously.. Just re-license it under the GPL, APL, NPL, or even BSD, upload it as an Apache project or something (like Oracle did with OpenOffice, when THEY admitted they didn't REALLY want it anymore), and let the fans have at it. Clearly your contemporary games, and the direction your development is going, see no future in an hardcore space sim. PLEASE just let us have it so we can play it, fix it, mod it, make it NEW for OURSELVES..

If you wanted our dollars/pounds/euros/credits, you'd have done something with your game, but no. No stickers, teasers, trailers, rumors, wallpapers, leaked alphas, no nothing. Nothing, but Bush-era Secrecy Uber Alles; it just means we don't know for sure that you're not working on it at all.. Even though it's pretty obvious you're not.

I don't care what the issue is, if it's not businessly viable, doesn't focus group well, or if you're just afraid of being George Lucas and Phantom Menacing all over what Elite 4 should be.. Whatever, just embrace the tragedy, and do something generous for what little fanbase is even left.

Really, we know you're not working on it, so seriously, just LET IT GO.. Let the fans have at it, at LEAST reap the reputation points you'd earn for the act.

whatever, deaf ears, as always..

cheers,
 
Have you people considered the possibility that Frontier and FFE source codes may simply NOT EXIST ANYMORE and they're too ashamed of it to admit it? :D:D
 
Lo!

I'd wager Braben has the 68k asm code for Frontier lying around somewhere. The other day I came across some asm code from Atari VCS/2600 games -- the original with dates and comments from the time! If people can keep hold of code from the '70s then Frontier must be doable.

I second the release of code. I'd pay good money for it. FFE might be difficult as there were many parties involved, but as I understand it, Braben wrote Frontier pretty much by himself so the 68k asm code there must be fairly easy to release.

Of course, then there's the question of what we could do with a bunch of 68k code. However, if we look at the awesomely cool hacks done in GLFrontier, I'm sure some diligent hackers could make a start on converting the 68k to C and SDL.

Me, I'd just love a modern, portable, graphically gorgeous version of Frontier. Some new features would be nice, but I'd be happy with the exact same gameplay as the original, just with more immersive graphics and sound. A bit like GLFrontier but more reliable and less hackish.

Mike
 
Last edited:
Ah of course I know that the code still being out there is nearly certain, but you know.. One can win a lottery, so one can aswell get his busted sources together with all backups.. =p

Maybe Elite IV is waiting for fast enough and affordable Amiga :D:D?
Theres AO X1000 that's fast but not affordable and a planned AmigaOS netbook that's affordable but certainly not fast enough for today's gaming.. meh ;/

:D:D
 
I've said it before and I say it a again: The real tragedy is that the co-creator of Elite and the creator of Zarch and Frontier is now wasting his time with Kinectimals and other cuddy games since over a decade now.

I understand that this might be profitable, but it's still a pretty sad sight. It's as if Scorsese would direct Teletubby episodes.
 
Last edited:
Maybe Braben's spent all this time trying to find a way for Beta Lyrae not to crash the game when entered and hasn't puzzled it out yet...
 
Back
Top Bottom