The Art of War - Duels to the Death in ED

[strooka]

1.
hello i want to introduce a new class into ED, called killer.

its a sub type of a pirate, he is proud of the bounty set on his head, he doesn't seek much money, he is looking for fights to death, in an underweight vessel, he loves the harzardosness coming up in a fight and he loves it when his victim explodes.

always roaming arround in small gangs from players 2 up to 5, there will be systems where there is a lot of them, traders, bounty hunters, explorers, beware!

THIS is the top of the foodchain!

2.
however, with this type of player incoming and chasing you until death, what do you think about an alternative way to save your income?

i do not want to run all players along in basic beginner ships (included me ), so

what about having a monthly income based on your class?

traders: should be able to apply an insurance on their goods.

bounty hunters: could get an additional income based on their kill/death ratio from their faction.

pirates: could make an insurance on their ship.

killers: could get an additional income based on their kill/death divided by death/kill ratio

explorers: could make additional money through exploring space etc.

what do you think about it?

 

[Mobius]

Myself if I feel that I have found a player that is just going to kill for no real reason except to just kill players then I will be adding them to my ignore list and hopefully never have to come across that type of player again.

hopefully when released I would like to find a group of players that I can call friends and create a totally private group.

 

[Greeboski]

Myself if I feel that I have found a player that is just going to kill for no real reason except to just kill players then I will be adding them to my ignore list and hopefully never have to come across that type of player again.

this ^^

 

[Pyros]

1.
hello i want to introduce a new class into ED, called killer.
...
THIS is the top of the foodchain!

2.
however, with this type of player incoming and chasing you until death, what do you think about an alternative way to save your income?

i do not want to run all players along in basic beginner ships (included me ), so

what about having a monthly income based on your class?

killers: could get an additional income based on their kill/death divided by death/kill ratio

explorers: could make additional money through exploring space etc.

what do you think about it?

It is always commendable to create something new, but in this case, no. Regarding the description, psychopaths are usually hunted down. you can play the role, but what will happen is increased bounty on your head. A class designed around a concept too similar to griefing is not a good idea.

Secondly, there can't be any monthly income based on the class, as there are no "classes" in ED, only activities (I can do some bounty hunting while trading - hardly optimal in terms of ship/equipment, but I could do it).
Of course that one could receive income based on our standing in the different factions and activities, but it is a bit too soon to create people depending on (virtual) taxpayers money isn't it?

 

[Hamerstein]

I put a post on the DDF in relation to this Strooka. But to summarise, while there would be nothing to stop you doing this, I don't think the game is being designed in a way to make this a fulfilling experience.

 

[Kerrash]

I have to agree with the above, you may as well call the class 'Troll' or 'Griefer'
Not to discourage competitive PvP gameplay but the idea seems too 'Call of duty' to me sorry

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

Psycho's, griefers, trashtalkers, and the general anti-social types won't last long in the modern multiplayer game. ED, SC, and Shroud of the Avatar are leading the way and implementing mechanics to put the ball back into the players court. The player can tailor his/her MP experience to cut down on the chances to meet those types of playstyles. Its one of the better things about the new road MP games are heading down.

I think if you want to play a killer or become a notorious pirate, you're going to have to learn to roleplay your character and inject some fun (if possible) into your encounters - otherwise you'll be living in an increasingly lonely gameworld.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Why anyone assumes that 'griefer'/'troll' skills will transfer so easily to ED from CoD and likes? Believe me, you won't have time to worry about where other players are and how to kill them, because different forms of NPCs - pirates, cops - will after you too.

This game is anti griefing as much as it can get. Those who will keep themselves out of ignore lists probably will be fun to meet anyway - even if they will be after kill of my ship.

 

[Maxeren]

Why anyone assumes that 'griefer'/'troll' skills will transfer so easily to ED from CoD and likes? Believe me, you won't have time to worry about where other players are and how to kill them, because different forms of NPCs - pirates, cops - will after you too.

This game is anti griefing as much as it can get. Those who will keep themselves out of ignore lists probably will be fun to meet anyway - even if they will be after kill of my ship.

Indeed.. the notion of ignore lists should help deter this kind of play style, since noone likes a griefer he would very quickly only have the company of npcs. Not to say that you should ignore every player that attacks you, that would just be carebarish

 

[Patrick_68000]

We must kill the killers ...

 

[breakpointUK]

Of course, not a direct comparison but this stinks of gameplay found on gta online (rdr online lobby before that)...

... You spawn and just get killed, when there's a lot a stake it seems better to shoot first and ask questions later... You don't know the intensions of other players...

... Random killers will encourage defence using offence

All for new roles and equal support for criminal roles (normally not supported very well in games)... But not a role without consequences!

On a side note. It would be extremely fun, but only for the killer... Eventually it could be everyone roles a killer, but then it wouldn't be very enjoyable as a combat space sim

 

[Bikky]

Myself if I feel that I have found a player that is just going to kill for no real reason except to just kill players then I will be adding them to my ignore list and hopefully never have to come across that type of player again.

hopefully when released I would like to find a group of players that I can call friends and create a totally private group.

Whereas I won't add anyone to my ignore list, Bring it on and hopefully I'll hand it to ya.

I won't be killing just for the sake of it, I may look for trouble, but I'll not be firing first, except against a ship attacking one I'm assisting, or while on a mission.

 

[kilvenny]

Shouldn't this new class be called either Loner or Dead Man flying
since you'll very quickly be flying around with only NPC's for company and Police "vipers" lining up to kill you. Sounds like a quick trip to the bottom of the food chain.

On a more serious note I am really looking forward to seeing how the ED ignore lists and bounties impact the griefers.

 

[jabokai]

Well, as Sandro said...

Griefing:

So, we've said we don't mind bad guys. In fact, we go further; we have bad guy gameplay options (piracy, smuggling etc.) By default, this includes psychopathic behaviour - randomly attacking other player "because you can".

Of course... he goes on to talk about protecting yourself from such, and the consequences for the attacker.

 

[Kinderman]

Myself if I feel that I have found a player that is just going to kill for no real reason except to just kill players then I will be adding them to my ignore list and hopefully never have to come across that type of player again.

hopefully when released I would like to find a group of players that I can call friends and create a totally private group.

+1, lets see how the ignore list works and help to make ED a 'sociable' game!

 

[strooka]

1.
note that a "killer" should always look for an even fight or a better fitted ship. this makes him thrill, not killing noobs that ban you.

this is eve pirate small gang behaviour.

note that most gameplay i've been told will be PvE only so i think sooner or later you should like the thrill.

maybe there will be certain systems which will be common to such fights.

also note that maybe he should always have in mind to be banned, so pick your fights !

2.

i hope the monthly subscription model will be implanted, cause it ensures that a player doesn't have to play from the very beginning on if his ship is destroyed, and that can happen not only in pvp!

3. also note that i'have been told by the moderator that it will be really not easy to kill a ship. i think most times you have the chanches to evade.

4. i dont think of "killers attack always traders and kill them" cause a trader with his big ship should anyways better chanches to run off, cause he has a bigger power device for his FTL.

5. i would be very pleased if the subscription model would be implemented, cause not everyone is an expert marketing specialist, maybe many want just have a bit fun. and many ppl that are in SC argue that they can't have a fast fight with ship replacement.

6. note that only smal and tiny ships would be used, cause you should always have in mind that you gonna go exploded.

does really no one want a fine pvp in the evening?

 

[Hamerstein]

Spoiler

1. note that a "killer" should always look for an even fight or a better fitted ship. this makes him thrill, not killing noobs that ban you.

this is eve pirate small gang behaviour.

note that most gameplay i've been told will be PvE only so i think sooner or later you should like the thrill.

maybe there will be certain systems which will be common to such fights.

also note that maybe he should always have in mind to be banned, so pick your fights !

2.

i hope the monthly subscription model will be implanted, cause it ensures that a player doesn't have to play from the very beginning on if his ship is destroyed, and that can happen not only in pvp!

3. also note that i'have been told by the moderator that it will be really not easy to kill a ship. i think most times you have the chanches to evade.

4. i dont think of "killers attack always traders and kill them" cause a trader with his big ship should anyways better chanches to run off, cause he has a bigger power device for his FTL.

5. i would be very pleased if the subscription model would be implemented, cause not everyone is an expert marketing specialist, maybe many want just have a bit fun. and many ppl that are in SC argue that they can't have a fast fight with ship replacement.

6. note that only smal and tiny ships would be used, cause you should always have in mind that you gonna go exploded.

does really no one want a fine pvp in the evening?

It's a difficult one to answer, as the behaviour you're suggesting doesn't appear to serve any purpose, beyond killing itself. An assassin kills for money, a smuggler to silence those who may expose them (in extremis), a pirate to instill fear - but ultimately so they're taken seriously enough to obtain wealth through intimidation.

Why would a player want to kill just for the purpose of killing, in a game where there needs to be some profit motive to progress?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

1.
note that a "killer" should always look for an even fight or a better fitted ship. this makes him thrill, not killing noobs that ban you.

In my opinion this habit has created by MMOs and games where NPC opponents are practically non-existent. Don't worry, so called "killers" in ED will have to worry about their asses first. They will pretty much abandon this "profession".

this is eve pirate small gang behaviour.

Yeah, because there's almost no NPCs in EVE to fight back.

note that most gameplay i've been told will be PvE only so i think sooner or later you should like the thrill.

maybe there will be certain systems which will be common to such fights.

also note that maybe he should always have in mind to be banned, so pick your fights !

Not banned. Ignore list doesn't work that way. Players will be set on lowest step and will get in one dynamic instance with you only if other groups of players will be maxed out. But yeah, I don't think ED will actively ban griefers. They will have to face consequences, be ignored at first, or even getting their ass whooped by other players _or_ NPCs when fighting back.

i hope the monthly subscription model will be implanted, cause it ensures that a player doesn't have to play from the very beginning on if his ship is destroyed, and that can happen not only in pvp!

There won't be no subscription. However, ships will be insured, similar to SC. So every death will cost you, but you still will get your ship back (it will cost less to you than buying new one).

3. also note that i'have been told by the moderator that it will be really not easy to kill a ship. i think most times you have the chanches to evade.

Yes, this is critical part of the game, and we will see how this will work quite soon in alpha. As far as we have heard combat will take in multiple stages, and there will be retreat options. This is of course very very important, because it changes narrative of the game, and also make griefing less problematic.

4. i dont think of "killers attack always traders and kill them" cause a trader with his big ship should anyways better chanches to run off, cause he has a bigger power device for his FTL.

Not exactly true, killers still can have better ships, however retreat is still an option, trader just have to be ready for it, and if unsure, he will have possibility to hire wingmen, both human and NPC like.

5. i would be very pleased if the subscription model would be implemented, cause not everyone is an expert marketing specialist, maybe many want just have a bit fun. and many ppl that are in SC argue that they can't have a fast fight with ship replacement.

I start to think that with subscription model you think insurance. If so, yes, it is in the game, you can read more about it in DDF archive http://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=36

6. note that only smal and tiny ships would be used, cause you should always have in mind that you gonna go exploded.

does really no one want a fine pvp in the evening?

Sorry, I didn't get your last question frankly

I am totally cool with challenge from fellow human players as pirates, as long as they accept piracy rules and consequences of not following them. Of course it will be my choice then to fight or not, however I mostly will do, except if I will have bunch of heat seeking smart missiles aimed at me I will play 'open all', as many I guess will do.

 

[strooka]

It's a difficult one to answer, as the behaviour you're suggesting doesn't appear to serve any purpose, beyond killing itself. An assassin kills for money, a smuggler to silence those who may expose them (in extremis), a pirate to instill fear - but ultimately so they're taken seriously enough to obtain wealth through intimidation.

Why would a player want to kill just for the purpose of killing, in a game where there needs to be some profit motive to progress?

because he wants to have some pvp fun

and it feels very different and harzardous hopefully not to loose credits

you will beat the eve mechanism - play for real money

your hands will begin to shake, its whole different

 

[strooka]

Quote: 4. i dont think of "killers attack always traders and kill them" cause a trader with his big ship should anyways better chanches to run off, cause he has a bigger power device for his FTL.

Not exactly true, killers still can have better ships, however retreat is still an option, trader just have to be ready for it, and if unsure, he will have possibility to hire wingmen, both human and NPC like.

then the killer risks also more money some will do some will not, but i think it will be like in eve that there will be only small ships being used for that. but you never can be secure of it