The Star Citizen Thread v 3.0

huzeeta · Apr 8, 2015

Wear&Tear for FPS weapons CONFIRMED!
http://imgur.com/a/4V9Ng
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/sniper-rifle-eab6c119-d28a-46f9-883c-69a53a6020b8

1500 said:
So its not just me? auto-merge does not seem to work anymore.

The sledge should be at least a size 2, and that is not even addressing the problem of a point in shoot FPS style gameplay with weapons with that much alpha. Its been a problem in AC for some time even before the Sledges.

Good video on how to balance a game. Sadly CIG is not doing it very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w

Everything will be fine when they add a complex/polished power/pipe system, armor system, updated shield system etc... And finally remove the Aim2Fly mode for mouse. Capable Pilots are able to pull off really impressive stuff with the current flight model, but the mouse control scheme simply doesn't encourage the noobs to move on and improve their flying skills. The new mounting system simply isn't enough for this.

Voivod · Apr 8, 2015

RC-Plorer said:
Capable Pilots are able to pull off really impressive stuff with the current flight model,

Like what?
I'm not being sarcastic, I'd like to see something difficult performed in a video if you have one.

Neo-ST · Apr 8, 2015

Voivod said:
Like what?
I'm not being sarcastic, I'd like to see something difficult performed in a video if you have one.

Some of them are able to lose the target...

Adept · Apr 8, 2015

RC-Plorer said:
Some Gladiator gameplay:

Pilot's perspective
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8vHP9dJrtY

Gunner's perspective:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dAwj_GiNCQ

The game actually looks much better from the gunner's PoV without HUD elements cluttering everything up. Sadly that will not stay.

Viking · Apr 8, 2015

I'm a subscriber but even if I received 385,000 REC into my account yesterday I don't need them to play in Arena Commander. Not the free ships either, since I have all ships already. But the REC system is great, I think. It's an outstretched hand from CIG to backers who don't want to spend so much of their money now to play AC.

MPC · Apr 8, 2015

RC-Plorer said:
Some Gladiator gameplay:

Pilot's perspective
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8vHP9dJrtY

Gunner's perspective:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dAwj_GiNCQ

That's pretty cool!

bliss · Apr 9, 2015

On Sq42:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/4792199/#Comment_4792199

CIG Ben Lesnick
Posted: 12:05AM
The hope from the start has been that Squadron 42 would kick off a whole series of games, much like the 'main series' Wing Commanders back in the day... while the Star Citizen persistent universe would kick off at an unspecified point in the future and continue to evolve in its own way. Once we've built the technology and evolved the world and balanced everything, there's unlimited stories to tell. I know we talked about additional Squadron 42s early on, because we joked about calling them Squadron 43 and Squadron 44 back in the early days

All you're seeing now is that we're trying to figure out the best way to express that. Squadron 43 and Squadron 44 are good joke names, but they don't really make sense... it's more reasonable to brand 'Squadron 42' as a series rather than something like 'Squadron 42 2.' The only real 'change' here is that Behind Enemy Lines isn't a Secret Missions-style mission disk anymore... it's going to be the next part in the saga. And at least some of our backers get a great bonus, an additional AAA single player game because they backed early.

As for estimated hours to complete the game, I can only say... I really hate trying to quantify those kinds of estimates. It's a game with no one way to play it that we haven't finished yet. Is that 20 hours to play straight through? 50 hours to play every branching mission? To bring it back to Wing Commander: knowing the game today, I can finish the Vega campaign in about two hours. But in 1990, when Wing Commander was new, that took me at least a month of hard-fought battles. So if somebody asks me how long it takes to play Wing Commander, what do I say? There's a reason they don't put those kinds of estimates on box copy.

I will say - Squadron 42 is not any smaller than it was the day we set out to make it. Content isn't being cut or subdivided or parceled out for extra revenue or anything like that. If we mentioned 20 hours in one interview and 50 in another it's because someone was having two different thoughts about the same amount of content... it's in no way indicating that we've removed anything from the initial pitch, because we absolutely haven't.

jcrg99 · Apr 9, 2015

Kind of lack of good sense of the CIG team in not giving them all for free for all backers or offering a lifetime expansion.
People are spending thousands of dollars after all. And now IS earlier. If its earlier to justify bugs, delays, lack of advance, ship sales, and so on, should be earlier to have offers that made sense and were a true thank you to the backers. Like a lifetime free pass for sp campaigns for all earlier backers... keeping this opportunity until near release, like FD did.

Besides, they are funding these future campaigns with the backer's money and will charge them for what they already paid for?

Ok.

Troels · Apr 9, 2015

RC-Plorer said:
Everything will be fine when they add a complex/polished power/pipe system, armor system, updated shield system etc... And finally remove the Aim2Fly mode for mouse.

I don't think everything will be fine simply by adding all the missing systems, as those will still require a great deal of balancing. However the fact that those systems are currently missing, does mean that any attempts at balancing the current build will at best be only marginally worthwhile.

huzeeta · Apr 9, 2015

Troels said:
I don't think everything will be fine simply by adding all the missing systems, as those will still require a great deal of balancing. However the fact that those systems are currently missing, does mean that any attempts at balancing the current build will at best be only marginally worthwhile.

Without the missing systems you simply can't adress Monoboating in a serious manner...

Voivod said:
Like what?
I'm not being sarcastic, I'd like to see something difficult performed in a video if you have one.

I linked a few videos weeks ago, but you didn't pay attention to what he did and called it FPS-type gameplay... It's just not the "Pitch boost timing" skills or the "FA off maneuvers" you would expect in ED.

Voivod · Apr 9, 2015

RC-Plorer said:
I linked a few videos weeks ago, but you didn't pay attention to what he did and called it FPS-type gameplay... It's just not the "Pitch boost timing" skills or the "FA off maneuvers" you would expect in ED.

I did? I don't even remember.
I was playing FPS games quite heavily for years so I don't get impressed easily.
I'm not THAT experienced with Flight/Space Sims so it's easier for me to be impressed when you see amazing pilots like isinona.

I've yet to see a video from SC gameplay that I was impressed with.

Neo-ST · Apr 9, 2015

The only way to dogfight in Star Citizen is to chase your enemy around the station, asteroid, etc.
Those obstacles then represent artificial way to enforce true dogfighting, which in other conditions - like true void of space, would be impossible.

Now, either they'll tweak their flight model to allow some fun in the void (and disappoint all those saying how good flight model is, as it is now), or we'll constantly have space filled with wrecks, stations, gas pockets, asteroids, etc.

Adept · Apr 9, 2015

Neo-ST said:
The only way to dogfight in Star Citizen is to chase your enemy around the station, asteroid, etc.
Those obstacles then represent artificial way to enforce true dogfighting, which in other conditions - like true void of space, would be impossible.

Now, either they'll tweak their flight model to allow some fun in the void (and disappoint all those saying how good flight model is, as it is now), or we'll constantly have space filled with wrecks, stations, gas pockets, asteroids, etc.

This. In Allegiance a similar model was entertaining in open space because accelerations were slower, boost was the only way to do rapid vector changes (it looked spectacular with a giant drive bloom, and fuel wad very limited), translational thrust was much weaker than main engine thrust, and all the weapons fired slow moving bullets (lots of them) with scatter and 400 - 700m range.

It can be done, but I don't trust CIG to do it. The skill sceiling would go through the roof too. And no lead indicators or trailing pips.

Clawhammer · Apr 9, 2015

Adept said:
This. In Allegiance a similar model was entertaining in open space because accelerations were slower, boost was the only way to do rapid vector changes (it looked spectacular with a giant drive bloom, and fuel wad very limited), translational thrust was much weaker than main engine thrust, and all the weapons fired slow moving bullets (lots of them) with scatter and 400 - 700m range.

It can be done, but I don't trust CIG to do it. The skill sceiling would go through the roof too. And no lead indicators or trailing pips.

I dont want that ships in sc fly like ships in elite. I dont want airplanes in space. I dont want to say that the flight model in elite is bad, no it is good. What i like in elite is that it is an easy flight model. It is like getting in an well known vw golf and start driving like a pro at the beginning. It is very easy and smooth.

The flight model in sc is insane, it is not like driving an golf it is driving a fast crazy motorcylce, very fast but harder to master cause you must learn to controll all the possible movements you can do at this high speed. And i like that too because it is totally different and i hope they will keep it because this speed is something that iam missing at elite dogfights.

I mean look at the elite honest trailer at 2:30 ->

[video=youtube;DZeO-4F45WM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZeO-4F45WM[/video]

In star citizen i can do such crazy moves at ease wich got advertised in this elite dangerous trailer...

Neo-ST · Apr 9, 2015

Clawhammer said:
it is driving a fast crazy motorcylce, very fast but harder to master cause you must learn to controll all the possible movements you can do at this high speed. And i like that too because it is totally different and i hope they will keep it because this speed is something that iam missing at elite dogfights.

Such fast movements, together with favored M+KB control scheme, provide for a complete no-skill gaming experience.
No need to plan your approach, maneuvers, use disadvantages of opponent ship to your advantage (such as difference in maneuverability, staying on his 6, etc.), plan your boost which helps you get away from trouble temporarily, etc.

In SC, all you got to do is keep the crosshair on the enemy, and since it has such fast movements, with combination of mouse and keyboard, it's the easiest thing to do.
Boost has no real meaning, no need to plan your approach, just head straight for it and keep the crosshair on, no big differences in maneuverability, they're all too fast, wonky and arcadey. Even if there was big difference, it's all nullified by M+KB controlled gimbals.

So yeah, I know why most people like the current flight model.

For a $78M+ project, I think it's a disgrace what they have (not) accomplished with flight/targeting model so far.

Clawhammer · Apr 9, 2015

Neo-ST said:
Such fast movements, together with favored M+KB control scheme, provide for a complete no-skill gaming experience.
No need to plan your approach, maneuvers, use disadvantages of opponent ship to your advantage (such as difference in maneuverability, staying on his 6, etc.), plan your boost which helps you get away from trouble temporarily, etc.

In SC, all you got to do is keep the crosshair on the enemy, and since it has such fast movements, with combination of mouse and keyboard, it's the easiest thing to do.
Boost has no real meaning, no need to plan your approach, just head straight for it and keep the crosshair on, no big differences in maneuverability, they're all too fast, wonky and arcadey. Even if there was big difference, it's all nullified by M+KB controlled gimbals.

So yeah, I know why most people like the current flight model.

For a $78M+ project, I think it's a disgrace what they have (not) accomplished with flight/targeting model so far.

Iam sorry to say, currently iam playing elite and sc daily and that is absolutly not my experience. Additionally iam in a big sc org and i never heard someone complaining about that. I agree that the gimbled weapons could need some work for improvments, but that does not make sc a call of duty in space. For that M+KB combo steers to and you are not able to use the full spectrum of the flight model.

additionally if you would stop playing with a M+KB combo you would understand the benfits of the boost...

huzeeta · Apr 9, 2015

Neo-ST said:
Such fast movements, together with favored M+KB control scheme, provide for a complete no-skill gaming experience.
No need to plan your approach, maneuvers, use disadvantages of opponent ship to your advantage (such as difference in maneuverability, staying on his 6, etc.), plan your boost which helps you get away from trouble temporarily, etc.

In SC, all you got to do is keep the crosshair on the enemy, and since it has such fast movements, with combination of mouse and keyboard, it's the easiest thing to do.
Boost has no real meaning, no need to plan your approach, just head straight for it and keep the crosshair on, no big differences in maneuverability, they're all too fast, wonky and arcadey. Even if there was big difference, it's all nullified by M+KB controlled gimbals.

So yeah, I know why most people like the current flight model.

For a $78M+ project, I think it's a disgrace what they have (not) accomplished with flight/targeting model so far.

The aiming is favoring the mouse, but having a keyboard is a big disadvantage right now. Analog input devices are "needed" for the additive strafing and throttle management. Positioning is important and ship-specific. If you want to approach a Hornet Ghost with your missles, you have to know from which angle you should approach it etc.
Just check out McKetten's Sledgequisition streams where he slaughters Super Hornet mouse sledge commanders ... He's using Dual Stick + Pedals( + mouse) by the way.

Stormprooter · Apr 9, 2015

RC-Plorer said:
The aiming is favoring the mouse, but having a keyboard is a big disadvantage right now. Analog input devices are "needed" for the additive strafing and throttle management. Positioning is important and ship-specific. If you want to approach a Hornet Ghost with your missles, you have to know from which angle you should approach it etc.
Just check out the McKetten's Sledgequisition streams... He's using Dual Stick + Pedals( + mouse) by the way.

Two sticks, pedals & a mouse? Who is this guy? Zaphod Beeblebrox?

At the risk of repeating myself for the umpteenth time, it is my opinion that the game will never be controller-balanced until mouse gimbal aiming is dropped in favour of auto-aiming gimballed weapons (with restrictions and limits like we have in E: D)

huzeeta · Apr 9, 2015

Stormprooter said:
Two sticks, pedals & a mouse? Who is this guy? Zaphod Beeblebrox?

At the risk of repeating myself for the umpteenth time, it is my opinion that the game will never be controller-balanced until mouse gimbal aiming is dropped in favour of auto-aiming gimballed weapons (with restrictions and limits like we have in E: D)

I don't like automation, Autogimbal should be optional and not preinstalled... Just split aiming and maneuvering and everything will be fine. If M/Kb users want to use their gimbals then they have to give up their yaw/pitch controls or use another input device.

Neo-ST · Apr 9, 2015

Clawhammer said:
Iam sorry to say, currently iam playing elite and sc daily and that is absolutly not my experience. Additionally iam in a big sc org and i never heard someone complaining about that. I agree that the gimbled weapons could need some work for improvments, but that does not make sc a call of duty in space. For that M+KB combo steers to and you are not able to use the full spectrum of the flight model.

additionally if you would stop playing with a M+KB combo you would understand the benfits of the boost...

I'm glad that you and your SC org likes it, but me and some other people don't.

Some other people like:
- http://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen...nally_i_think_arena_commander_is_a_nightmare/
- https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/2727063/#Comment_2727063
- https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/131167/#Comment_131167
- https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/234978/overall-wonky-feel-of-fps-flight-ifcs
- https://forums.robertsspaceindustri.../flight-what-a-load-of-rubbish-curving-anyone
- http://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/2s4rts/flying_feels_weird/
- https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/137450/arcadey-commander-chase-the-mouse/p1
- https://forums.robertsspaceindustri...t-from-pu-you-know-it-s-just-an-arcade-sim/p1
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY5x85F-DKM (very "skill" based)
.
.
.

To me, it's very COD-in-space.

RC-Plorer said:
If you want to approach a Hornet Ghost with your missles, you have to know from which angle you should approach it etc.

Approaching targets in SC looks like approaching a mad swarm of flies. One moment they're there, all looking good, you're approaching, then all of the sudden they buzz past by you.
I've talked already about this, the lack of visual feedback, enemy movement, the lack of impression of distance, etc.