Space Scum

[SirAdelaide]

... And if the OP had won the fight, would we have this discussion? No.

There's always a winner and a loser.

Elite is a rouge like. Die, and respawn, don't complain.

 

[sutex]

I only started playing about 4 days ago.
Game really started to pick up once I earned enough creds to buy a Viper and upgrade the Frameshift drive so I could explore some more of the galaxy.
Was having a great day today, even ranked up to Cadet in the Federation.

And then I get interdicted by a CMDR piloted Vulture.

Now I fly clean, pay of my fines, hell I don't even accept missions from bulletin if they look shady. So I have no bounty and no cargo when I'm interdicted.

Vulture doesn't seem to care and destroys me in seconds, forcing me to take a loan to re-buy my Viper since I had recently upgraded a component but would've been back above rebuy costs after completing the mission I was on.

Needless to say it left an awful taste in my mouth, so I doubt I'll be returning to open play anytime soon.
Griefers (or whatever other fun name we're going to call them instead) are a blight on the stars.

Don't play in OPEN , there are no consequences for MURDERERS , Griefers and the rest who support them say this is normal game play, because FDEV says its normal.

Yet everyone who's been MURDERED by Griefers knows immediately its just bad behavior

 

[Renegade Roach]

Don't play in OPEN , there are no consequences for MURDERERS , Griefers and the rest who support them say this is normal game play, because FDEV says its normal.

Yet everyone who's been MURDERED by Griefers knows immediately its just bad behavior

Yeah, you are so right. It's utterly stupid to say that this is part of the game just because the people who make the game said so.

I enjoy the caps on MURDERED though, gives your post real weight. Almost as if it were REAL LIFE MURDERDEATH.

 

[sutex]

Yeah, you are so right. It's utterly stupid to say that this is part of the game just because the people who make the game said so.

I enjoy the caps on MURDERED though, gives your post real weight. Almost as if it were REAL LIFE MURDERDEATH.

Wondering if those who support Griefers game play , would be more likely to use hacks as well, whether in ED or other games, as it fits with the narrative of narcissist my fun first, at anyone else cost or enjoyment of the game

I say again avoid OPEN , there are no consequences for MURDERERS

 

[Ghostickles]

Is space scum harder to get out than rebel scum?

 

[Renegade Roach]

Wondering if those who support Griefers game play , would be more likely to use hacks as well, whether in ED or other games, as it fits with the narrative of narcissist my fun first, at anyone else cost or enjoyment of the game

I say again avoid OPEN , there are no consequences for MURDERERS

So now you're insinuating that anybody who disagrees with you is probably a cheat? That's pathetic and indicative of the fact that you simply don't have an argument with any credibility. The consequences for MURDER are lacking, it's been well talked about and hopefully FD are addressing that somewhat in the next update. It still does nothing to change the facts of the matter, which are that pvp is a part of teh open experience. If you're too sensitive for that and inclined to take it personally when another player attacks you, then yes avoid open. Also avoid any competitive sports, debating and possibly going out in public.

Of course, there's nothing narcissistic about thinking that your view on the matter trumps that of the developers. No sir, not at all.

 

[Efrit]

Getting blown up by some random CMDR is not griefing. Deal with it, or go to solo.

 

[sutex]

So now you're insinuating that anybody who disagrees with you is probably a cheat? That's pathetic and indicative of the fact that you simply don't have an argument with any credibility. The consequences for MURDER are lacking, it's been well talked about and hopefully FD are addressing that somewhat in the next update. It still does nothing to change the facts of the matter, which are that pvp is a part of teh open experience. If you're too sensitive for that and inclined to take it personally when another player attacks you, then yes avoid open. Also avoid any competitive sports, debating and possibly going out in public.

Of course, there's nothing narcissistic about thinking that your view on the matter trumps that of the developers. No sir, not at all.

So now you're insinuating that anybody who disagrees with you is probably a cheat?

NO but luv they way this forums twist words...NOT.

Don't care what the FDEV think , there not in my spacecraft , getting BLOW up I'm And there's little doubt , that game play today is full of hackers, players who think cheating is the norm , like attacking players without any real benefit to them, but only, to get their jollies.

It still does nothing to change the facts of the matter, which are that pvp is a part of teh open experience. If you're too sensitive for that and inclined to take it personally when another player attacks you, then yes avoid open. Also avoid any competitive sports, debating and possibly going out in public.

Too sensitive lol, I'm not the one who's been too sensitive , Everytime someone voices an opinion on Griefers someone pops up and say its normal its competition, it how the FDEV want the game.. I doubt this , been playing games for years , and bad behavior has only one goal , to enure misery for other players , there is no competition or skill involved , its bullies picking on the weak , and holding up the rule book saying , its doesn't say we cant !..

AND so the exodus to Private Servers continues

 

[Squid Torgar]

The way I look at such things is this; In a Galaxy of 400 Billion systems you are bound to encounter a psychopath sooner or later (or you could easily find a system off the beaten track that doesn't get visitors). However, this coward of a Cmdr took it out of you and cost you dear. You have two options:

1) You (understandably) could feel that space is too dangerous. There is no one who can protect you or your ship when faced with mindless acts of violence such as this. If so, its time to hang up your space hat and think about farming of a nice terraformed world (this element isn't in the game yet).

2) You make a note of the Cmdrs name. You etch it into your (Sidewinders) dashboard. Every day you carve it deeper. Your wiser now, more jaded perhaps, but you'll be ready next time. You'll spend your time earning more credits in order to fit out a nightmare of a ship and hunt that villain down. You'll stop his murderous ways and he will remember that green viper pilot that he blew away with such contempt. And if you can't find him you will hunt out the next psycho, and the next, and that goes for any pirate too. If the galaxy is a cruel place so be it! You can beat it, after all you are a Cmdr!

To put it another way, yes it was a harsh thing to happen, now ask yourself what you are going to do about it...

 

[vizvayu]

I disagree with part of your other post. I think it was in fact your post that was the best post of the thread.

This post was same old, same old and I was just poking fun and being sarcastic until your post.

It raised some interesting points and generated interesting responses.

What baffles me, is something I do for fun and enjoyment is just that fun. If players are holding on so tight to feel the way they feel in this circumstance then it is hardly fun.
So why do they persist.

If people play games to somehow make up for other "issues" in real life then perhaps I could understand it. But its still a game, still not real. Just a bunch of pixels. How can it make any difference to anyone's life if computer controlled or human controlled. Only in their heads. Something must be set a bit wrong.

This may seem a bit (or a lot) off-topic to people who doesn't really understand the relation with the issue posted by the OP.

The first thing is that fun and enjoyment could mean very different things to different people. Some people enjoy fighting and PvP style gameplay, other enjoy fighting and Coop (or PvE) gameplay, other people enjoy trading and "making money", other people enjoy exploring... so this is important to understand, that fun is a very subjective word.

Second, no matter what we call fun or how we play this game, in one way or another we do care about what happens inside the game. We do get happy when we get a new shiny ship. We do get happy after winning a prize after a community goal. We do get happy after defeating an enemy, or finding a new trade route or discovering a new system with lots of earth-like planets. And just because we do get happy sometimes, we do get angry many other times. We do get angry when we loose a ship, or when the game freezes, or when we forget to stop after jumping, and so on. And the fact that we get angry and happy, and sometimes even sad simply means that we care about the game, and that up to some point it is important to us. Maybe sometimes not as important as some things in real life, but other times it is more important than other things in real life that you don't like. So it is important and it does matter. Let me ask you something... what would you prefer to loose, a Bic pen (real life item) or an Anaconda fully equipped? So it doesn't really matter if it's made of virtual pixels without essence or if it's something that your hands can touch; what is important is the meaning we give to things. In fact, we all traded very important real life items (money) for something made of ether, just pixels in movement, an idea. So there's no real difference between those things, at least not to us aparently.

And third, since we all play the same game, on the same servers for sometimes very different reasons, and since the game is somehow important to us all, we should get along using the same ethical principles we use in real life. The mechanics are different, sure, but that doesn't give any of us the right... no, not right, the freedom to do anything we like without expecting consequences, and I'm not talking about legal consequences, I'm talking about ethical and social consequences.

Let's try to think the reason for this attack (because there's ALWAYS a reason): We have a new Cmdr. piloting a small fighter, the Viper. He has no cargo nor bounty. He has being playing for 4 days, so let's say his rank was Mostly Harmless". He was interdicted by a Vulture, which I'd say it's safe to assume is a more experienced player. The Vulture kills him. He had no cargo, so we cannot say it was for the money of the cargo. He had no bounty, so we cannot say it was because the money of the bounty. He had no experience and a smaller ship, which is no match for an experienced player in a Vulture, so we cannot say it was for the fun of the fight. So, what's left? Maybe the Cmdr. flying the Vulture just wanted to test his new weapons... then why attack a real person who just bought the game? Why not attack an NPC? Maybe he had a bad day and wanted to shoot something... then again, why not shoot an NPC? All it's left as far as I can see is that he just enojoyed making a newbie feel bad. And that's what this is all about really. People who starts this kind of threads doesn't really care about game mechanics, the doesn't really care on if you call this griefing or not. They are just frustrated because of the gratuitous aggressions. And IMO this is what this, and all threads like this are all about. I know that many people doesn't understand this, and that the fact that this happens so very often in so many games makes them believe this is normal and OK; but it's not.

 

[Squid Torgar]

This may seem a bit (or a lot) off-topic to people who doesn't really understand the relation with the issue posted by the OP.

The first thing is that fun and enjoyment could mean very different things to different people. Some people enjoy fighting and PvP style gameplay, other enjoy fighting and Coop (or PvE) gameplay, other people enjoy trading and "making money", other people enjoy exploring... so this is important to understand, that fun is a very subjective word.

Second, no matter what we call fun or how we play this game, in one way or another we do care about what happens inside the game. We do get happy when we get a new shiny ship. We do get happy after winning a prize after a community goal. We do get happy after defeating an enemy, or finding a new trade route or discovering a new system with lots of earth-like planets. And just because we do get happy sometimes, we do get angry many other times. We do get angry when we loose a ship, or when the game freezes, or when we forget to stop after jumping, and so on. And the fact that we get angry and happy, and sometimes even sad simply means that we care about the game, and that up to some point it is important to us. Maybe sometimes not as important as some things in real life, but other times it is more important than other things in real life that you don't like. So it is important and it does matter. Let me ask you something... what would you prefer to loose, a Bic pen (real life item) or an Anaconda fully equipped? So it doesn't really matter if it's made of virtual pixels without essence or if it's something that your hands can touch; what is important is the meaning we give to things. In fact, we all traded very important real life items (money) for something made of ether, just pixels in movement, an idea. So there's no real difference between those things, at least not to us aparently.

And third, since we all play the same game, on the same servers for sometimes very different reasons, and since the game is somehow important to us all, we should get along using the same ethical principles we use in real life. The mechanics are different, sure, but that doesn't give any of us the right... no, not right, the freedom to do anything we like without expecting consequences, and I'm not talking about legal consequences, I'm talking about ethical and social consequences.

Let's try to think the reason for this attack (because there's ALWAYS a reason): We have a new Cmdr. piloting a small fighter, the Viper. He has no cargo nor bounty. He has being playing for 4 days, so let's say his rank was Mostly Harmless". He was interdicted by a Vulture, which I'd say it's safe to assume is a more experienced player. The Vulture kills him. He had no cargo, so we cannot say it was for the money of the cargo. He had no bounty, so we cannot say it was because the money of the bounty. He had no experience and a smaller ship, which is no match for an experienced player in a Vulture, so we cannot say it was for the fun of the fight. So, what's left? Maybe the Cmdr. flying the Vulture just wanted to test his new weapons... then why attack a real person who just bought the game? Why not attack an NPC? Maybe he had a bad day and wanted to shoot something... then again, why not shoot an NPC? All it's left as far as I can see is that he just enojoyed making a newbie feel bad. And that's what this is all about really. People who starts this kind of threads doesn't really care about game mechanics, the doesn't really care on if you call this griefing or not. They are just frustrated because of the gratuitous aggressions. And IMO this is what this, and all threads like this are all about. I know that many people doesn't understand this, and that the fact that this happens so very often in so many games makes them believe this is normal and OK; but it's not.

Wise words, and I cant find much to object to, except one thing. The game has both Solo and Open modes. Now the only possible reasons I can think of that someone might play in open is:

1) The want interaction with other players rather than NPCs

2) They weren't aware that Solo mode existed and ended up there by mistake.

If you are playing open for the first reason then you should accept that people on the internet are quite often idiots. There might be people that want to shoot you for the lols. Whilst I agree this is antisocial, it does rather fit into the idea that in open you never quite know what you will run into.

If its the second, then all is well. You can cut out these people, infact you will never come across another player. You can play the game and provided you don't mind NPCs having a pop at you (I've read posts where people have complained about that too) you are golden.

Personally I hope more people accept the challenge and downright fun that open offers. If there are a few bad eggs (the vast majority of players Ive interacted with in the game have been excellent) then accept that as part of the space opera and keep on going. If you cant accept that, switch to solo or mobius.

 

[sutex]

Personally I hope more people accept the challenge and downright fun that open offers. If there are a few bad eggs (the vast majority of players Ive interacted with in the game have been excellent) then accept that as part of the space opera and keep on going. If you cant accept that, switch to solo or mobius.

Played in open until been blow up twice around lave, no real benefit to the attacker , just done for lols, which for them is the benefit

Since then moved to Mobius , Consequences for murderers , is the only way for open to succeed Mobius as over 7000 players was only 4000 when I joined , so that must be telling FDEV something about open

 

[Squid Torgar]

Youll never encounter a bigger hive of villany than that which you find in the Lave Cluster. Go ready or go quick, or just dont go...

 

[Red Dirt Nurse]

This may seem a bit (or a lot) ... we should get along using the same ethical principles we use in real life. The mechanics are different, sure, but that doesn't give any of us the right... no, not right, the freedom to do anything we like without expecting consequences, and I'm not talking about legal consequences, I'm talking about ethical and social consequences.

I respectfully disagree.

While I wouldn't participate in the example of senseless killing as you described in your post (experienced commander attacks newb commander with no apparent motive), it's evident that - just like real life - there are people who do bad things. It's totally possible that people playing ED at home are sociopathic. They just like to play ED too.

People appreciate that PvP combat is a big component of the gameplay. In order to play with other people, you have to accept some level of risk. As William G.T. Shedd said, "A ship is safe in a harbour, but that's not what ships are for.” In this instance, single player mode is analogous to the harbour.

Perhaps the developers could make the bounties or level of wanted status commensurate with how heinous the crime is. For example, an elite player in a fully geared ship who kills a new player (for whatever reason), get's a bigger bounty because of the relative difference is skill and assets. I don't know - that might be too hard to manage or police.

It seems pretty easy in the game to clear one's name. Absolution for committing crimes against others is cheap. The alternative would be to have a game mechanic similar to that in the game Fable 2, which adjusted morality factors based upon player actions

My personal feeling is, "if you can't stand the heat, get outta the kitchen".

Cheers, commanders.

 

[digitalcommunist]

There really is a serious lack of consequences for killing other players in open. The bounty you gain is trivial at best.

I can understand anarchy systems, but in policed systems there should be an immediate and lethal NPC response to aggression like this (multiple anacondas/vipers/eagles chasing the offender). Unfortunately, NPC's can't even kill each other, let alone a player.

 

[vizvayu]

Wise words, and I cant find much to object to, except one thing. The game has both Solo and Open modes. Now the only possible reasons I can think of that someone might play in open is:

1) The want interaction with other players rather than NPCs

2) They weren't aware that Solo mode existed and ended up there by mistake.

If you are playing open for the first reason then you should accept that people on the internet are quite often idiots. There might be people that want to shoot you for the lols. Whilst I agree this is antisocial, it does rather fit into the idea that in open you never quite know what you will run into.

If its the second, then all is well. You can cut out these people, infact you will never come across another player. You can play the game and provided you don't mind NPCs having a pop at you (I've read posts where people have complained about that too) you are golden.

Personally I hope more people accept the challenge and downright fun that open offers. If there are a few bad eggs (the vast majority of players Ive interacted with in the game have been excellent) then accept that as part of the space opera and keep on going. If you cant accept that, switch to solo or mobius.

Agree, the game has the option to play in solo, but it's antisocial people who should play in solo
And this things happen, and quite often, I know that. But the point of what I'm trying to say is that... the fact it does happen often doesn't make it allright. It doesn't even makes it part of the game. And I'm not talking about mechanics but about the implicit rules of the "gaming society". Antisocial people playing social games have a big mental issue (you can clearly see the discordance of those two words together), and they should not be implicitly accepted like part of the game. And this is a middle point between playing solo and believing that everything goes "'cause it's the net and it's not real".

I didn't have any problem so far in Elite, I interacted with few but very nice individuals.

 

[sutex]

There really is a serious lack of consequences for killing other players in open. The bounty you gain is trivial at best.

I can understand anarchy systems, but in policed systems there should be an immediate and lethal NPC response to aggression like this (multiple anacondas/vipers/eagles chasing the offender). Unfortunately, NPC's can't even kill each other, let alone a player.

This is the crux of the matter, Its not about PvP , that's cool, its about been held to account for your actions. The wanted system really needs some work.

 

[Squid Torgar]

I didn't have any problem so far in Elite, I interacted with few but very nice individuals.

And theres the rub, if you read these forums you could be excused for having the impression the second you log into open you have to run a gauntlet of griefers to deliver that cargo to the station. But the reality is that it simply isnt true. I get that one bad experience can tar the entire game, but I also think that the multitude of positive experiences that are to be had in open are posted about less frequently, simply because people tend to post when things go bad, not when they go well. That said its all academic. If any particular player feels that being thrust into a virtual galaxy of potential sociopaths is not on, then they can simply remedy this with a mouse click, no need for anything to be fixed.

As stated, I get a buzz out of the randomness of open (I wish more people partook its awesome) I would hate for FDEV to try to make it more like solo, I want my Galaxy to be unpredictable.

 

[vizvayu]

I respectfully disagree.

While I wouldn't participate in the example of senseless killing as you described in your post (experienced commander attacks newb commander with no apparent motive), it's evident that - just like real life - there are people who do bad things. It's totally possible that people playing ED at home are sociopathic. They just like to play ED too.

People appreciate that PvP combat is a big component of the gameplay. In order to play with other people, you have to accept some level of risk. As William G.T. Shedd said, "A ship is safe in a harbour, but that's not what ships are for.” In this instance, single player mode is analogous to the harbour.

Perhaps the developers could make the bounties or level of wanted status commensurate with how heinous the crime is. For example, an elite player in a fully geared ship who kills a new player (for whatever reason), get's a bigger bounty because of the relative difference is skill and assets. I don't know - that might be too hard to manage or police.

It seems pretty easy in the game to clear one's name. Absolution for committing crimes against others is cheap. The alternative would be to have a game mechanic similar to that in the game Fable 2, which adjusted morality factors based upon player actions

My personal feeling is, "if you can't stand the heat, get outta the kitchen".

Cheers, commanders.

I completely understand that no matter what, this kind of things will keep happening, just like in real life. The difference, and the point of all of this, is that in real life when someone gets mugged or attacked people don't say "It's part of life, just get it over with noob". In real life these actions are condemned by society (mechanics come later, let's leave those out of this discussion). And all I'm trying to say is that in-game this actions should be condemned just as well (again, first let's talk about ethics, mechanics will come later by their own), and not taken as "part of the game".

 

[Edgey75]

thats not greifing you just met someone who is a donk
greifing is what i have had, a commander first tried to attack me in a RES, was in the middle of a bounty kill and he ran, he came back minus a bounty on him waited until my sheilds were low and attacked me again this time their was no excuse i was leaving to cash my bountys in and was outside of the mass lock and no other ships about, he got a bounty the space police came along and he got owned.
he then proceeded to come back with no bounty to try again, but as a friend of mine was on and wanted some help i left
next day i go back and their he is again this time instead of firing he trys to ram me, having a fully maxed out vulture for bounty hunting, he didnt do any damage to me but took his own sheilds down, then when i am going after bountys he trys cutting infront of me while im firing to get me a bounty this also failed so he took up ramming again.
next thing i know he comes along with a friend and they take turns at ramming into me and getting in my way, i still keep laughing as they have only ever managed to take 1 ring off my sheilds while taking their sheilds offline.
thing is ive also seen the guy and his friend doing the same thing to other players who come into the RES`s and some of them havent faired so well, the pair of them also seem to be getting better ships probably by hogging the RES by chasing other players off and not gaining a bounty.
this has gone on for a few weeks now, thats greifing imo

as annoying as this guy and his friend are i still laugh at their pityfull excuse of greifing, i will keep playing in open, keep playing in my fave place and when i finally see either one of them with a bounty no matter how small im going to have them.
i do all my game time in open even trading, i like the danger of it and like to laugh at noobs who dont realise that not all trading ships are unsheilded unarmed easy targets, as yet i have not died to a player while trading let alone dropped them any goods of value, allthough i did once drop some organic waste for the lols.

my advice to the op dont play in open till you have money to back up any losses you could have, dont think all players are out to kill you, theirs quite a few friendly players out their too. if you buy a new ship but cant afford to upgrade it without selling your current ship, leave it parked earn a bit more money and then kit it out.