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Newcomer / Intro Supercruise overspeed
- Thread starter Manshonyagger
- Start date
So why do signal sources and outposts, which have a tiny gravity well compared to the player's ship's, also exhibit this FSD inhibition effect, but not frame shift wakes? If the inhibition is artificially added by your ship's computer, it would be nice to have it for wakes, and be able to decelerate as fast as you can when not inhibited.
Speed in super-cruise isn't linear, it's quadratic/exponential in relation to space-time compression. You're using a frame-shift drive which is, as its name implies, shifting the space-time frame of reference around you. It is compressing space-time.
In deep space where no gravity wells (a form of natural space-time compression) exist, and your FSD has had enough time to spool up fully, you are moving at full compression. Now when you're accelerating to move forwards, you're accelerating inside that compression bubble, which is also moving along with you (this is why ships look like very very long meteors, they're actually really stretched out energy bubbles).
The speed at which you're moving in 'normal' space-time is increased by orders of magnitude in relation to the hugely increased frame of reference (larger distances are being compressed into much smaller distances). In absolute terms, you're covering a much much greater distance at much greater speeds than you seem to be relative to yourself. This is what allows you to move at super-luminal speeds without actually moving faster than light (an impossibility).
As you near and enter a gravity well, your ships FSD (creating and controlling your local compression bubble) has an inverse relationship with the surrounding space-time compression of gravity wells. This is an automatic, inbuilt mechanism of the FSD for practical (and of course safety) reasons. Simply, the deeper you are into a gravity well, the closer your frame of reference will be to the 1:1 reference of the background space-time fabric. This will stop you from smashing through massive bodies at objectively super-luminal velocities and creating black holes, destroying the universe and such. Your destination lock also indicates to your ship computer that you need to be at a 1:1 compression when arriving at your destination, this applies the same behavior to your FSD as natural gravity wells, but in a much more controlled and drastic fashion (gravity wells will always slow you down, but unless you are specifically locked on to a given signal, under the right circumstances you are still able to achieve super-luminal speeds right through the deepest parts of a well, you will just be being slowed down drastically).
So, think of it like this. If you're in deep space, your FSD is fully spooled and you're traveling within your local bubble at full compression. You enter a gravity well and/or begin nearing your destination, as your drive reacts and your frame of reference shrinks, you will actually be speeding up relative to non compressed space as your absolute speed overtakes the rate at which your frame of reference is returning to 1:1. To counteract this, your ship begins decelerating at a rate proportional to the space-time rarefaction happening around you. you have some control over this, but it is largely automatic. You can for instance push the relationship into a relative velocity bias (faster than I should be) or a rarefaction bias (slower than I should be), or you can sit "in the blue" and allow the calculated deceleration to rarefaction ratio play out. This will always be the smoothest interpolation between frame states, but it is never the fastest.
To put it another way. If your rate of deceleration is faster than the rate of space-time rarefaction, you will be slowing down in absolute terms. If your rate of deceleration is the same as the rate of space-time rarefaction, you will be maintaining a constant velocity in absolute terms. If your rate of deceleration is slower than the rate of space-time rarefaction, you will be speeding up in absolute terms.
So "overshooting" is you having gone over the threshold of keeping your deceleration in relation to your absolute speed under the rate of decompression Vs distance to your destination. The confusion comes from the not directly observable relationship between your current frame size and your intended velocity at destination. This is why we seem to suddenly 'speed up' if we are, or are about to, over shoot. Objectively speaking, we are speeding up dramatically. More specifically: we are decelerating at a rate slower than our decompression.
There are two things at work, not just speed; but primarily a form of warping, with speed being applied within that (constantly shifting) frame of reference. Distance factors (current velocity/strength of spooled FSD) and size of massive body (strength/radius of gravity well) play a part in how this effects your ship. You can use this to your advantage when you get to know it well, 'riding' these elements to significantly cut down travel times, but until then, keep your throttle in the 'blue' and let the computer do the rest.
Hope this cleared things up.
In deep space where no gravity wells (a form of natural space-time compression) exist, and your FSD has had enough time to spool up fully, you are moving at full compression. Now when you're accelerating to move forwards, you're accelerating inside that compression bubble, which is also moving along with you (this is why ships look like very very long meteors, they're actually really stretched out energy bubbles).
The speed at which you're moving in 'normal' space-time is increased by orders of magnitude in relation to the hugely increased frame of reference (larger distances are being compressed into much smaller distances). In absolute terms, you're covering a much much greater distance at much greater speeds than you seem to be relative to yourself. This is what allows you to move at super-luminal speeds without actually moving faster than light (an impossibility).
As you near and enter a gravity well, your ships FSD (creating and controlling your local compression bubble) has an inverse relationship with the surrounding space-time compression of gravity wells. This is an automatic, inbuilt mechanism of the FSD for practical (and of course safety) reasons. Simply, the deeper you are into a gravity well, the closer your frame of reference will be to the 1:1 reference of the background space-time fabric. This will stop you from smashing through massive bodies at objectively super-luminal velocities and creating black holes, destroying the universe and such. Your destination lock also indicates to your ship computer that you need to be at a 1:1 compression when arriving at your destination, this applies the same behavior to your FSD as natural gravity wells, but in a much more controlled and drastic fashion (gravity wells will always slow you down, but unless you are specifically locked on to a given signal, under the right circumstances you are still able to achieve super-luminal speeds right through the deepest parts of a well, you will just be being slowed down drastically).
So, think of it like this. If you're in deep space, your FSD is fully spooled and you're traveling within your local bubble at full compression. You enter a gravity well and/or begin nearing your destination, as your drive reacts and your frame of reference shrinks, you will actually be speeding up relative to non compressed space as your absolute speed overtakes the rate at which your frame of reference is returning to 1:1. To counteract this, your ship begins decelerating at a rate proportional to the space-time rarefaction happening around you. you have some control over this, but it is largely automatic. You can for instance push the relationship into a relative velocity bias (faster than I should be) or a rarefaction bias (slower than I should be), or you can sit "in the blue" and allow the calculated deceleration to rarefaction ratio play out. This will always be the smoothest interpolation between frame states, but it is never the fastest.
To put it another way. If your rate of deceleration is faster than the rate of space-time rarefaction, you will be slowing down in absolute terms. If your rate of deceleration is the same as the rate of space-time rarefaction, you will be maintaining a constant velocity in absolute terms. If your rate of deceleration is slower than the rate of space-time rarefaction, you will be speeding up in absolute terms.
So "overshooting" is you having gone over the threshold of keeping your deceleration in relation to your absolute speed under the rate of decompression Vs distance to your destination. The confusion comes from the not directly observable relationship between your current frame size and your intended velocity at destination. This is why we seem to suddenly 'speed up' if we are, or are about to, over shoot. Objectively speaking, we are speeding up dramatically. More specifically: we are decelerating at a rate slower than our decompression.
There are two things at work, not just speed; but primarily a form of warping, with speed being applied within that (constantly shifting) frame of reference. Distance factors (current velocity/strength of spooled FSD) and size of massive body (strength/radius of gravity well) play a part in how this effects your ship. You can use this to your advantage when you get to know it well, 'riding' these elements to significantly cut down travel times, but until then, keep your throttle in the 'blue' and let the computer do the rest.
Hope this cleared things up.
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Regardless of the mental model, I agree with OP frustration. The "Slow Down" message never pops up fast enough to actually let the player avoid over-shooting.
Given that is the case, either just let us overshoot and figure it out on our own, or change wording to something more accurate, like "locked target overshot".
Having said that, Mike's 'splanation of the space compression is brief but good and fits with what DB has said is the game logic.
There should however, be a difference of behavior depending on the massiveness of the target. The ship is compressing space towards itself and large masses do the same thing. Ships slow down when approaching targets of large enough mass due to this "tug of war", with ship and massive object each "scrunching up the carpet (to shorten space) towards itself.
The killer thing is the ship FSD is more powerful than even a star's ability to curve space. That's a hella powered device that realistically could probably be weaponized, but it is needed for gameplay.
The Frame Shift Interdictor works identically as a planet competing with the FSD to curve space towards itself. Using the "scrunching up the rug" analogy, the FSD drives of interdictor and interdictee engage in a competition, trying to pull the rug out from under each other so to speak. If the interdiction succeeds the space compression of both FSD's has basically cancelled out, dropping them into normal space. When not at minimal speed this sudden change in total energy will damage eash ship's hull (and could cause a blackout, items to be thrown about the ship if not stowed properly, etc. Submitting to interdiction removes most of the FSD speed/energy and is why no damage occurs when exiting super-cruise at minimal speed.
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If this is the case, why can't we have more control of our speed when we are locked on to USS? It seems the "gravity wells" always apply based on the distance away from your target, not the physical gravity of planets, otherwise I would suspect we could stop on a time at the USS, as you can when you untarget them, but still in the same general area.
I was saying exactly this to the wife last night!
After playing a while, this is the way I understand it. If you are close to a star or a planet, the mass of said star or planet prevents you from speeding up. When you move away from objects with lots of mass, the faster you can go. You can be accelerating and not even be touching the throttle because it takes less energy to move you through space when there are no other masses acting on your ship. When you target an object, as you approach the object, you will start to slow down without touching the throttle, but not enough to keep you from shooting past it. So what I try to do is watch my eta, which the second number shown next to the target. The first number being the distance in light seconds. I keep my eta above 12 seconds, and this requires some "feathering" of the throttle in order to achieve this. It takes practice, you won't get it the first time. Anyway, this is why you seem to speed up and slow down for no apparent reason.
It's a game and not bound by the facts of reality.
First, map a key or button for 75% speed (best to map keys for 0 speed, 25%, 50%, 75% and full).
When approaching RES, NAV, Stations, Outposts, planets, moons....etc. after entering the system, set to 75% speed if under 1000Ls away from your objective.
You will only gain a couple seconds going full speed at 1000Ls away and virtually nothing if the destination is under 500Ls away.
If further away, then do full speed until you get around 400Ls away (or time drops to 10s-8s). At that moment, set to 75%.
You will never overshoot your target.
Sorry if I'm repeating other posts, I didn't see this exact method mentioned.
But after using different advice offered on the forum, I found this method to work best.
When approaching RES, NAV, Stations, Outposts, planets, moons....etc. after entering the system, set to 75% speed if under 1000Ls away from your objective.
You will only gain a couple seconds going full speed at 1000Ls away and virtually nothing if the destination is under 500Ls away.
If further away, then do full speed until you get around 400Ls away (or time drops to 10s-8s). At that moment, set to 75%.
You will never overshoot your target.
Sorry if I'm repeating other posts, I didn't see this exact method mentioned.
But after using different advice offered on the forum, I found this method to work best.
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Afaik you can fly away much faster from stars than from planets (and stars are much larger gravity wells). This leads to me not really wanting to get close to planets and marvel at them. It hinders exploring surface features of planets.
I'd also love pancaking on planets instead of slowing down so much. Space travel is way too safe
I would also really love some parts of a supercruise journey to be "silent". So you fire your thrusters and burn to gain your travel speed, then you silently "drift" through space towards your target and when you get there you burn again to slow down.
Ask your friendly neighbor to shoot out your canopyOn the subject of the supercruise noise... is there any way to tone it down or even mute it all together? When you're spending hours at a time at SC exploring, the noise gets extremely irritating to me..
jk. You can however adjust your ingame sounds as a whole in the audio options i think... I don't bother too much with that stuff so I'm no expert.Sorry but this is simply not true - not for me at any rate. Just today I was approaching De Kamp Orbital - hit my 75% bind key with a good minute + showing on TTA counter. Everything fine for a while with speedo needle smack in the middle of the blue zone, and then my speed shout up out of the zone and into maximum. Warning 'Slow Down' message came on. If only! Nothing had an effect on pulling that speed back until I had actually overshot. Hitting the zero binding key, throttling back or even slamming into full reverse throttle - all totally useless. Once I overshot the speed came back down into the blue and I was forced to do a loop to re-align the station.
What I do is wait for the timer to go to 7s, then speed down until the timer increases a second or two before going into the blue zone. When you've been accelerating through deep space sometimes the gravity of the planet isn't enough to slow you down effectively.
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I have a way that works every time. Full throttle to any target until you are 8 seconds away from it according to the display on your board computer. Immediately lower throttle to the center of the blue range and you are done and can relax. The ship will automatically slow down until you are near enough to exit Supercruise.
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Slow Down has nothing to do with you needing to slow down in order to reach your destination, and more to do with your ship being slowed due to a gravity well (which doesn't seem to be the thing slowing your ship that hard, rather your ship is slowing automatically, possibly to avoid hitting the well too fast and causing damage). Yes the message is misleading, and I don't know why they've not changed it. You can test this by the way - skirt too close to a planetary body or asteroid cluster while in SC to a further destination and your ship will hit the brakes and flash SLOW DOWN at you, even though you personally have no reason to do so.
As to the engines ramping up, well, you may be in super cruise, but you're still in space. Gravity Wells will gradually slow the ship, but if it needs to stop in a hurry then it's going to fire the forward thrusters to slow you down, and it's going to fire them HARD. So 0 is not 0 thrust, it's a desire to go 0 velocity (or the closest SC will allow).
BTW, foolproof method for not overshooting: wait until your ETA timer hits 8 or 9 seconds and then drop your speed so the needle is just at the bottom of the blue zone (the needle will be blue, any lower and it will be orange). Your timer will stabilize at about 7 seconds, and you'll gently slow and cruise perfectly to your destination. Some practice at that will allow you to tweak that for maximum efficiency, but that's the risk free method.
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Sorry but I have to say (again) that this does not work for me.
Dropped speed to middle of blue zone when 0.08 reached - everything fine for a while and then this happened.
Followed by this:
And finally this - total overshoot:
Use the force and feel the pull of the stars. Ignore the machine.
Thanks for 'riding the 8'; it really, really helps.
I've found that you do need to start slowing at around 0:12 or so in order to hit 0:08 reliably - but once you do, it makes for the perfect approach for the remainder of the trip.
The only tricky part is making sure you're looking at the ETA, not the distance remaining...
I've found that you do need to start slowing at around 0:12 or so in order to hit 0:08 reliably - but once you do, it makes for the perfect approach for the remainder of the trip.
The only tricky part is making sure you're looking at the ETA, not the distance remaining...
As the Dev mentioned, you don't speed up.
The gravity field serves a purpose in that it helps you slow down. In addition to just braking and making approaches from different directions regarding a planet interesting, it also a very useful indication of when you are halfway to a sun or planet that you are approaching a long ways away, which you haven't explored yet (if you don't have ADS).
It's also part of the in game explanation of how supercruise works. It warps space around you, but since the gravity of large bodies also warps space, it reduces your drive's effectiveness.
I think it would be a big loss if it went away. It's been a core part of the movement part of the game since the beginning.
Slow down means you are extremely likely to overshoot. It doesn't directly mean the gravity is slowing you down because the gravity does that long before the 'slow down' alert comes on.
if you don't want to over shoot, you really want to just pay attention to the meters on the bottom left.
I don't have a single line answer. I don't think apply to all cases and that screws people up when they try and follow it unthinkingly as an automatic thing
For most of the flight, keep it at about 3/4 of the blue, or if you are over 2000 l/s away full throttle until you get to about 400 l/s and then 3/4
When you hit 100 l/s, the line on the Distance meter will show up, at that point bring your speed down to about 8c as quick as possible.
Watch your distance go down, when it hits about half way, bring your speed down to 1 c so the speed shows up on the meter.
At that point, it's just a matter of watching both meters until they hit their own blue area and then you hit 'j' and you're there.
if you don't think the speed is falling fast enough, reduce your speed some more, gravity should take care of most of it, but depending on how you approach in relation to the planet, it won't take take of all of it,.
if you want a trick, match the speed meter to the distance meter. if you follow this overall approach, you'll find that you are actually going too slow some times and will want to speed up a bit,
but you will rarely if ever overshoot.
I haven't overshot in a long time.
it won't be the absolute quickest approach, but I like exploring and some trading, so speed is not absolutely important to me.
if you don't want to over shoot, you really want to just pay attention to the meters on the bottom left.
I don't have a single line answer. I don't think apply to all cases and that screws people up when they try and follow it unthinkingly as an automatic thing
For most of the flight, keep it at about 3/4 of the blue, or if you are over 2000 l/s away full throttle until you get to about 400 l/s and then 3/4
When you hit 100 l/s, the line on the Distance meter will show up, at that point bring your speed down to about 8c as quick as possible.
Watch your distance go down, when it hits about half way, bring your speed down to 1 c so the speed shows up on the meter.
At that point, it's just a matter of watching both meters until they hit their own blue area and then you hit 'j' and you're there.
if you don't think the speed is falling fast enough, reduce your speed some more, gravity should take care of most of it, but depending on how you approach in relation to the planet, it won't take take of all of it,.
if you want a trick, match the speed meter to the distance meter. if you follow this overall approach, you'll find that you are actually going too slow some times and will want to speed up a bit,
but you will rarely if ever overshoot.
I haven't overshot in a long time.
it won't be the absolute quickest approach, but I like exploring and some trading, so speed is not absolutely important to me.