I understand, but until that happens, the Star Citizen failed.
The Star Citizen Thread v 3.0
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I understand, but until that happens, the Star Citizen failed.
As I recall, not sure but.
AC is just AC. A arena type of playable module. It is clear that if you merge it with PU branch then it will not be a arena anymore.
Which would be much more confusing.
They are not there yet but it is a preparation that modules will eventually merge and the production is closing in at module merges.
So it is just build naming of fitting what will be the sum of the modules.
If you know a bit about software development, repository Branches and merges.
Then it make sense.
The way I see it. It common but not a set rule you shall not pass. That if not feature complete it isn't at BETA fase.
Modules are build which are set of features. So without all merges the game isn't complete and as such not in Beta.
Fail is press release of cancelation.
Calling a Arena as SC ALFA which is correct. It is not Feature complete as it is without key feature modules delivered by those other modules.
Calling Sandbox PU a arena that make no sense.
Apparently they figured this out and shift to different naming convention.
Move on.
I don't think SC has failed or anything just yet. They got at least another 1.5 years before release of the PU so a lot can change in that time. Right now all we have are tiny snipets of the overall game that are missing a bazillion features, let alone any proper balancing passes on the flight model or controls. So they got quite a bit time to iron everything out. I don't think SC is or will be a revolutionary game that will change everything. I expect it to be exactly like how Freelancer MP was except now you have first person mode added into the game.
If anything, if little does change in regards to the way controller's are done by PU release and mouse remains top dog in dog fighting like it is currently dominating everything, than if anything, I will call SC the biggest sell out of the past decade.
If anything, if little does change in regards to the way controller's are done by PU release and mouse remains top dog in dog fighting like it is currently dominating everything, than if anything, I will call SC the biggest sell out of the past decade.
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Star Citizen is a fail... Roberts is not. He made profit. Tons of it. Still will make much more. Basically, he spent the last 20 years profiting from fails. That's why he persist with some wrong mindsets that are leading this project to his fail. Because making money makes him delusional about what is a success. You will find him easily, all the time explained about what something went bad, not because him, but always because someone else. He confuses, just like you did now, personal financial success, with the success of the things that he produced, so he keep making the same mistakes again and again, "because if I am making more money all the time, I can't be wrong".
This time, probably will be the last of his cycle. But nobody can blame him to make sure to get the best financial retirement ever of a failed game developer.
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It's a bit early to call it a fail just yet. I mean, I find what has been delivered so far to be underwhelming, but they are not at full release yet. Can't make that final judgement call until we see what's on the table. And remember, Star Citizen may be a fun and enjoyable experience even if it doesn't live up to the lofty claims, hopes and dreams.
I think a few years down the road people will look at SC and say "Well it's not the Best Damn Space Sim Ever, but it's still pretty cool".
*puts that quote into a Told-You-So (tm) time capsule for later*
Trust me, I couldn't be happier to see (later on) that I was wrong.
But to achieve that, they'd need to ditch the current flight/targeting system and come up with something new and innovative.
Thoughts?
I know, currently I'm calling it Star Citizen only to point out their ridiculous naming logic and to take advantage of it.
Fixed it for you.
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Roberts understand your thoughts perfectly. That's why he is going as slow as possible to this "full release" target, as well as milking as more as he can before approaching
of this "full release" scenario...
His solution to make people with your mindset always ok and not considering a fail? Simple. Just never call his product "full release yet" (take long as possible, while there are excuses that can be produced and people defending him in the forums and buying ships... not too much needed with all those high prices after all).
Star Citizen will be a fun and enjoyable experience... just as ANY failed game is. If you see it as-is today, it is a fun and enjoyable experience... for some.
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Nope. You did not fix. You just made the statement more wrong. Mainstream never will come to SC. It's a game that never will appeal to them.
Both design with many features not "mainstream-friendly" and hardware requirements will keep them out.
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No. It's not. Can't you see? They failed in both sides of the coin. While the mouse rules and make it useless to know all the tricks of the ship because that kind of adversary, the whole flight model is kind of weird for "mainstream" taste. Playing with mouse gives the owner advantage but does not make it less complicated and weird for their taste, considering a person get used with easiest gameplay, without bigger learning curve, to persist with a game and like it.
Besides, the hardware requirements are going to be beyond of average, so, just here it ends the possibility of appealing masses.
And additionally, the game, when more fleshed out, will include mechanics that will make it much more complex for mass appeal. Death of the spacemen + FPS combination is just one of the things that will be done and wont combine to make the thing work to make greeks and trojans happy.
Similar situation happened with Freelancer. Made with mouse to try to appeal to the masses, but the rest of the game and complexities involved (even that for harcore space sim fans, they seemed dumbed down) and even not so friendly to fly with the mouse, kind of weird, made that game having poor results and Microsoft shutting down any possibility of sequences or even expansions to the original.
Besides, the hardware requirements are going to be beyond of average, so, just here it ends the possibility of appealing masses.
And additionally, the game, when more fleshed out, will include mechanics that will make it much more complex for mass appeal. Death of the spacemen + FPS combination is just one of the things that will be done and wont combine to make the thing work to make greeks and trojans happy.
Similar situation happened with Freelancer. Made with mouse to try to appeal to the masses, but the rest of the game and complexities involved (even that for harcore space sim fans, they seemed dumbed down) and even not so friendly to fly with the mouse, kind of weird, made that game having poor results and Microsoft shutting down any possibility of sequences or even expansions to the original.
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The problem is they use gamey mechanics to define it being skill based. If you have a game that has space combat where skill should be evaluated and assessed if obvious, your skill as a combat pilot if you are flying in fighter sized ships.
Instead we have so called skill based on point and clicking or as exampled in the video below, skill based on your ability to play the electric slide with power distribution and shields. I mean look at this video here and listen to how power and shields are controlled..
[video=youtube;WT9muoL8XPw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT9muoL8XPw[/video]
And tell me you don't see similarities to this video.
[video=youtube;-mOY2eWO2qw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mOY2eWO2qw[/video]
I know some of us want to someday play Starship Commander with our Capships, but with a fighter? That is just stupid and it just doesn't match up. And the only excuse anyone will ever give for this stupidity is, "It's a game, not a simulator and not real life."
What's the situation with the FPS module that was meant to be released this month? Is there a new delivery date?
I have to admit it bugs me that so much PR is pushed out about things, there's a big build up, an estimated timeframe is given and then nothing...
The FPS module was demoed in Nov '14, since then we've had numerous statements, articles, cruddy "Ender's Game" ripoff modes shown etc and when they're expected to deliver, they renege.
There's nothing wrong with building hype but they should deliver or atleast give reasonable notice, not this "Oh we realised there wasn't enough gameplay" right at the last minute rubbish.
I have to admit it bugs me that so much PR is pushed out about things, there's a big build up, an estimated timeframe is given and then nothing...
The FPS module was demoed in Nov '14, since then we've had numerous statements, articles, cruddy "Ender's Game" ripoff modes shown etc and when they're expected to deliver, they renege.
There's nothing wrong with building hype but they should deliver or atleast give reasonable notice, not this "Oh we realised there wasn't enough gameplay" right at the last minute rubbish.
Now THAT is funny! LOL!
AFAIK the facial capture technology exists, so it's not a lie or a fail. However, they stated that it was too much of an effort to integrate the fans faces. That's not a big deal however (if you're not part of that selfie culture).
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It has already outdone most of the gaming industry, including E
, which is stuck on 32bit. Based on that, it's already a success.That has also positive effects on hardware sales, many people have finally a reason to upgrade.
People unfamiliar with software development seem to underestimate both the effort required for R&D as well as the money needed (especially in terms of salaries).
How can't this not to be a fail? They promised do that associating with a new million dollar achievement and won't make that, and yes, it is a lie because Roberts always told that all stretch goals that they add, they only were added after knowing if it was possible or not to make them and evaluating the cost... and that is clearly not the case. They had no idea, with a lot of them, if they would be able or not to make them one day, despite have been said the contrary when "selling" them.
They just did what Molineux said recently:
"... And there's this overwhelming urge to over-promise because it's such a harsh rule: if you're one penny short of your target you don't get it. And of course in this instance, the behaviour which is incredibly destructive, which is 'Christ, we've only got ten days to go and we've got to make a hundred thousand, for s sake lets just say anything'"
With the difference the Roberts makes even worst from what Molineux did, because he does just for the sake of getting more money, regardless needing it to fund the development of the game, from far, fully funded.
If you can call this not a big deal, I think that it is. Not because this feature in specific (which is an absolute proof of false advertising, as many others situations that we saw happening in this project, sometimes even worst, because were related with wishes to get more money, not with development requirements), but what this reveals. And it's far to be the first time. The Enhanced Alpha Stretch goal for example became a big joke. Meant to make sure the game playable and stable for 300k+ players, they barely are able to deal today with just a couple of thousands playing at the same time in 4x4 modes. The same is valid for everyone who is obligated to pay more 5 dollars to have its alpha slot, when the game does not deal not even with who bought its access before.
Apparently Chris Roberts is unfamiliar too.
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To me, it boils down to this. CIG has an important decision to make, and the time is now.
1. Keep the cash machine running and keep making lofty promises that are way beyond 2015 computer gaming technology.
2. Shut down the cash machine, stop making lofty promises, and buckle down and come out with a reasonable computer game.
I really want the game to be an epic win, but they are just promising way too much. You should HEAR their fanbase.
I have a college buddy who's in a huge .org, Imperium I think its called. So I join them (just to talk to my buddy) on their TS server for some free flight or co-op Vandal Swarm on weekends. They have like 100's, yes 100's, of people on their server at any given time (in many different channels of course) Which, I believe is really cool. But man, you start talking to some of these guys, and its like I'm talking to a 11 year old kid with no concept of the real world.
Most of the stuff I hear them say they are GOING TO DO in the PU once the game goes live, I want to politely ask "You do realize no other game in the history of computer gaming has come anywhere near the complexity of what you just said and with current programming/gaming technology...." It like me saying "We're sending a manned mission to Jupiter !!!" Dude. We aren't even going to get to Mars in our lifetime likely, are you crazy??
In a way, I admire the child-like optimism and imagination of their fan base. In another way, the fanaticism with which they respond to any suggestion of reality is really ******* annoying.
CIG needs to shut down the ridiculous dream machine and simply make an ED + EVE game. Drop the whole FPS game, which will be crap compare to the realism of Arma as well as the beauty+sandbox variety of Far Cry 4. Save that module for 5 years out. Just come out with a better looking space combat game with more ships and weapons than ED. Then throw in some social aspects + player interaction from EVE and GuildWars 2 (something ED really lacks in the huge universe) and I think most people would consider it to be a Win.
Yes, the game is going to be for most people. That's why CIG refuses to cave on the Mouse Commander, WarThunder in space, style of light-ship combat. But so what. Make a game that most people like and you will be remembered as a winner.
Stop promising *** that has no way of becoming a reality before 2025 technology.
1. Keep the cash machine running and keep making lofty promises that are way beyond 2015 computer gaming technology.
2. Shut down the cash machine, stop making lofty promises, and buckle down and come out with a reasonable computer game.
I really want the game to be an epic win, but they are just promising way too much. You should HEAR their fanbase.
I have a college buddy who's in a huge .org, Imperium I think its called. So I join them (just to talk to my buddy) on their TS server for some free flight or co-op Vandal Swarm on weekends. They have like 100's, yes 100's, of people on their server at any given time (in many different channels of course) Which, I believe is really cool. But man, you start talking to some of these guys, and its like I'm talking to a 11 year old kid with no concept of the real world.
Most of the stuff I hear them say they are GOING TO DO in the PU once the game goes live, I want to politely ask "You do realize no other game in the history of computer gaming has come anywhere near the complexity of what you just said and with current programming/gaming technology...." It like me saying "We're sending a manned mission to Jupiter !!!" Dude. We aren't even going to get to Mars in our lifetime likely, are you crazy??
In a way, I admire the child-like optimism and imagination of their fan base. In another way, the fanaticism with which they respond to any suggestion of reality is really ******* annoying.
CIG needs to shut down the ridiculous dream machine and simply make an ED + EVE game. Drop the whole FPS game, which will be crap compare to the realism of Arma as well as the beauty+sandbox variety of Far Cry 4. Save that module for 5 years out. Just come out with a better looking space combat game with more ships and weapons than ED. Then throw in some social aspects + player interaction from EVE and GuildWars 2 (something ED really lacks in the huge universe) and I think most people would consider it to be a Win.
Yes, the game is going to be for most people. That's why CIG refuses to cave on the Mouse Commander, WarThunder in space, style of light-ship combat. But so what. Make a game that most people like and you will be remembered as a winner.
Stop promising *** that has no way of becoming a reality before 2025 technology.
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Better try another ways to differentiate on features. Powerplay is about to be released (while their FPS was delayed without new ETA... kind of hilarious to see this kind of thing happening all the time).
But I agree with basically everything that you said, but they are not going to do that, because the same was asked long ago, many many times, by different backers, which are always swallowed by the wave of the religious fanaticism, which CIG appreciates, because their focus is entirely on gathering money and that's very clear at this point.
P.S: Made me wonder sometimes if Roberts really gathered the money from backers, as the legend says, but instead from some kind of hidden investors, who they preferred to keep hidden just because that would sound a new motivation to people give them a little more funds from their pockets if thinking that they are "the ones" who made that happening... and maybe all this continuous cash grabbing and need to keep people visiting their website by giving short estimates as well as "sharing fluff" all the time, for the sake they listen to the ship sales offerings happening in parallel, is a pressure of these investors to get profit earlier or was used by CR to convince them, telling that they would get profit earlier with the ship sales scheme.
While fanboys will scream like it was something "impossible", not a single one of them is capable to prove this theory wrong. Shaddy marketing attitudes are actually very common in all the marketing messages of Roberts, so, I wouldn't doubt so much of this possibility. Roberts and associates are anything but naive to do not understand what implies what they are doing for the future of the game and company. Maybe they do because they are obligated to, by who actually gave a good part of the money that they have: hidden investors. It's a theory of course. But fits more with the reality and justify better their cash grabbing attitudes... otherwise, they are just insane or money suckers, because "angels of heaven" as their fans put them at this level, do not exist outside of heaven (and their actions does not sound angelical).
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