Has Elite been marketed wrongly?

[I and I Redeye]

I think there is definitely a market for slow paced and cerebral games. I think with the release of powerplay it's time to change up how they are selling this.

Elite is that slow paced cerebral rpg but if they market it as that type of game it will not sell very well.

The pew pew crowd is around a certain area and community events.

This is the thing.
You all know where the crowd is. You all know what it's like out there from reading these forums.
Yet time and again players go there and scream when getting ganked.

Curiosity killed the cat but satisfaction brought it back.
The galaxy is huge. Go play in it. There will always be a crowd in certain regions but it's up you guys to spread out and form another society.
Or purists will leave the game. The purists will dwindle from the game over the next year or 2 unless you do something about it.
You are needed in this type of game and you can play together in peace and in open.

 

[FuzzySpider]

Elite is that slow paced cerebral rpg but if they market it as that type of game it will not sell very well.

How do you figure that? Compare Halo 3, a multiplayer focused product, with Skyrim, a single player slow burn focused product. There is very clearly a market for these types of games. A market with less competition and (considering that Skyrim is still being sold when Halo 3 has basically fizzled out) and a longer sales shelf-life.

The pew pew crowd is around a certain area and community events.

This is the thing.
You all know where the crowd is. You all know what it's like out there from reading these forums.
Yet time and again players go there and scream when getting ganked.

Curiosity killed the cat but satisfaction brought it back.
The galaxy is huge. Go play in it. There will always be a crowd in certain regions but it's up you guys to spread out and form another society.
Or purists will leave the game. The purists will dwindle from the game over the next year or 2 unless you do something about it.
You are needed in this type of game and you can play together in peace and in open.

Can you please keep to the topic, thanks.

 

[NeilF]

I pretty much stopped playing when it became obvious PvP was more important. A simple to change to make it impossible to tell the difference between PC and NPC ships would have prevented the mess we are in now and all updates appear to be PvP orientated. Alpha backer here BTW.

Can I question your view there? Or use of terms?

If we take Powerplay, how do you assess that to be PvP? Is it simply because it's pitting CMDRs against CMDRs (potentially) to effect an outcome? Or do you envisage it actually means direct PvP confrontation/combat, which is the more normal use of the term (PvP) surely?

I fully expect a group of my friends who not like playing with joe public to take part in Powerplay in Group mode. So while they will effect an outcome against other CMDRs, and be affected by other CMDRs, they will never see another CMDR when actually play. ie: They will never actually have PvP combat.

Is that good or bad in your view?

 

[Privata]

I dont know , the game calls its self ''cut thoat galaxy'' and ''dangerous'' yet ppl whine , cry , rage when they get shot...

 

[Ancipital]

Yup. Much the same as you, I purchased on the strength of Elite and Frontier: Elite II (and have been well pleased). The videos aren't representative...perhaps of a war-zone but certainly not of the game as a whole.

Yep, the influx of people hoping for EvE Online or some sort of COD/Battlefield-style PvP shooter hasn't exactly enhanced matters or the general quality of experience - somewhat toxic

 

[King Hrothgar]

I bought ED back in July or so during the first beta stages. It was advertised as an open world, space MMO with hardcore combat in it. It screamed first person eve in every trailer, interview and dev doc. The only real departure appeared to be the removal of the blobtastic station fights eve is known for, an element I never cared for anyways. The early betas also gave this impression too. But as release approached, it morphed into spacetrucker 3000. I put the game aside only 2-3 days after official release and didn't come back until wings were added. One session using wings was enough, the game was still spacetrucker 3000 but with the added ability to space truck with friends for no practical in game reason. I uninstalled ED that evening.

I came back yesterday after some of those same buddies I flew with then swore up and down how amazingly improved ED is. A couple hours in, I feel like they lied to me. It's still spacetrucker 3000 despite some minor tweaks to bounties and npc difficulty. It was all the more obvious since by the time the download finished, the two guys I had planned to fly with were off doing space trucking again to make money. We'll see what powerplay brings, but I don't think it will change what this game really is. It is a single player spacetrucker Skinner Box game, nothing more no matter what David Braben says.

And no, I'm not a CoD spazz kiddie. I actually can't stand those games either. I mostly play DCS, RoF and BoS. Flying around in circles for 20-30 minutes searching for that good fight doesn't bother me. The trouble is, ED never delivers the fight that makes the waiting worth it. The combat is too dumbed down and with the exception of the Eagle, there don't really seem to be any ships that were made for combat in the first place.

So you tell me, was ED properly marketed? My experience says it was not.

 

[Titus Balls]

I bought ED back in July or so during the first beta stages. It was advertised as an open world, space MMO with hardcore combat in it. It screamed first person eve in every trailer, interview and dev doc. The only real departure appeared to be the removal of the blobtastic station fights eve is known for, an element I never cared for anyways. The early betas also gave this impression too. But as release approached, it morphed into spacetrucker 3000. I put the game aside only 2-3 days after official release and didn't come back until wings were added. One session using wings was enough, the game was still spacetrucker 3000 but with the added ability to space truck with friends for no practical in game reason. I uninstalled ED that evening.

I came back yesterday after some of those same buddies I flew with then swore up and down how amazingly improved ED is. A couple hours in, I feel like they lied to me. It's still spacetrucker 3000 despite some minor tweaks to bounties and npc difficulty. It was all the more obvious since by the time the download finished, the two guys I had planned to fly with were off doing space trucking again to make money. We'll see what powerplay brings, but I don't think it will change what this game really is. It is a single player spacetrucker Skinner Box game, nothing more no matter what David Braben says.

And no, I'm not a CoD spazz kiddie. I actually can't stand those games either. I mostly play DCS, RoF and BoS. Flying around in circles for 20-30 minutes searching for that good fight doesn't bother me. The trouble is, ED never delivers the fight that makes the waiting worth it. The combat is too dumbed down and with the exception of the Eagle, there don't really seem to be any that were made for combat in the first place.

So you tell me, was ED properly marketed? My experience says it was not.

For reasons of moving from Scotland to London, a whole bunch of holidays in one go and generally getting myself set back up and running I hadn't played Elite for over a month until last night (I had logged in a little to do some filming but that's very meta).

Last night I got myself into a Vulture, did a combat zone and have to say after taking that break I *really* enjoyed myself last night again. Never mind I've gone from 1080p to 21:9 1440p in that time (the game looks SO good in 21:9, better than 4K I'd say).

Having read the Power Play email, I AM excited again. I DO want PvP (but despite what some people think, not All PvP All The Time) as a balance to other activities such as trading and exploring. I hope to see more careers diversify (with pilot and smugger becoming more fleshed out, and both civilian and military paths opening up).

Like others have said here, this is a sandbox and as such I should be able to do what I want in the environment, along with every other player in open. If others don't want to interact on that level then they have solo and private group modes. This argument has been done to death though and we need to focus on what Frontier can do across all these modes to make everyone happy.

 

[Mysturji]

@OP
Well, I hope you blew his Asp (err... I mean sidewinder) to smithereens.
Everyone got the game they paid for, whether it was what they were expecting or not.
Eventually, they will learn what kind of game it is, and then they'll either keep playing or they won't.
I hope they will, but shoot-em-up space-kiddies who think they can buy a great big red "Win The Game" button and wreak havoc on everyone else have another thing coming.
This game throws you into the deep end... with sharks in it... and alligators in the shallow end when you try to make it to shore.
Be cruel to be kind.

 

[dannysquid]

Or purists will leave the game. The purists will dwindle from the game over the next year or 2 unless you do something about it.
You are needed in this type of game and you can play together in peace and in open.

Who are these purists? ELITE is quite a lot of different things to different people, and that's really its strong point. Back in the day, it was a huge mass-market smash hit, beloved of 12 year-olds (like me) and anybody who wanted to feel like Han Solo. It wasn't all Traveller-style military spec sheets and people posting pictures of their gaming rigs. It also had planets with edible furry lobsters living on them and a lot of the gameplay was shooting at Thargoid flying saucers. I'm not sure treating it as some dry and dusty "hardcore gamer" thing is really correct.

Mind you, all the hardcore nerdy system simulation stuff is fun too!

 

[nedeaalex]

Very poorly sold. First off trailers(since that is what i showed my friends and what most people see)
1.Cinematic launch trailer(it says not ingame footage soooo i guess its k, but it still shows 90% combat so yeah)
2. wings trailer : 100% combat. It says wing members get rewards for helping trading. That is the biggest joke ever. I could just stay afk with an anaconda at a res and get more money. Second, it implies there actually are humans to gank and help you(haha the game is empty ;( )
3. Beta trailer. Spacifically the 3rd one. It shows some scooping. Nice. Mining, aka the useless thing nobody does(this will change with PP, but still was poor advertisement). Then it shows combat aaaaand yup.

Second off: Categories. It is listed as MMO. It is not a MMO. MMO's have guilds, end game stuff to group up for, better rewards for grouping, and are only multiplayer. This isnt.

And finally, the general lack of things to do ingame after you maxed your desired ship and explored how much you wanted....resorts to killing random dudes for the jollies.

All my friends thought this game was a super-cool space game like eve but in first person, and then one by one(except 1) left...Now it is only me and my best friend. And that is because we love space and we have nothing better until Star Citizen comes out(if ever) or No Mans Sky.

 

[Slacker]

If there's one thing you can't accuse FD of it's being in any way restrictive in how players play the game. To me it's a slower paced game of trading and exploration with areas of higher activity when I go NPC bounty hunting in Solo. To others it's a higher paced game of fighting in fairly light space fighters a la X-Wing. Neither should be denigrated for their choices and I find it pretty disgusting that a minority of Commanders who share my play style look down snobbishly on other players and call them names.

I don't think it's been marketed incorrectly. I think the OP should have been in solo or group mode.

 

[andrak]

Are any game trailers these days (particularly anything done by Blur) even remotely showing the final product or any actual gameplay... Nope, and that goes for all kinds of adverts online or on TV that promise far more than the real product delivers. It's almost expected now that any marketing be a complete pile of eye candy to draw people into a purchase.
Not saying that it is acceptable to market like this, but it's a phenomenon that applies across all industries and mediums at the moment, not unique to FD.

On a more serious note though, are these trailers right for FD? Probably, as they want a slice of that mainstream pie. There is no way that this game would survive with just the funds of the original base of Elite fans.

The original backers footed the bill for this game, without them it probably wouldn't exist. Backers have arguably had close to the game they wanted up to this point, albeit with bugs and a lack of development in areas of the game. However, now that the game has been released, expect it to morph into something more mainstream as the mainstream gamer stamps their feet and shouts for what they want. Backers have served their purpose and they are no longer required to sustain this game. The new need is to placate the masses and sell more copies.

ED could easily be a game that goes from being great to terrible in just 12 months from now. It depends on what line FD take between staying true to the original core of Elite or bringing in the mainstream audience.

 

[I and I Redeye]

Who are these purists? ELITE is quite a lot of different things to different people, and that's really its strong point. Back in the day, it was a huge mass-market smash hit, beloved of 12 year-olds (like me) and anybody who wanted to feel like Han Solo. It wasn't all Traveller-style military spec sheets and people posting pictures of their gaming rigs. It also had planets with edible furry lobsters living on them and a lot of the gameplay was shooting at Thargoid flying saucers. I'm not sure treating it as some dry and dusty "hardcore gamer" thing is really correct.

Mind you, all the hardcore nerdy system simulation stuff is fun too!

Yes I agree. I was trying to make same point I think.
That you can have your game somewhere in the galaxy and have some control over it. This game does cater for all.

 

[I and I Redeye]

How do you figure that? Compare Halo 3, a multiplayer focused product, with Skyrim, a single player slow burn focused product. There is very clearly a market for these types of games. A market with less competition and (considering that Skyrim is still being sold when Halo 3 has basically fizzled out) and a longer sales shelf-life.

It's just the way it is.
Competition drives sales more than a niche market.

This game had to be like this or it would fail as an epic mmo. It still can.
The industry know what is selling atm and build games accordingly. The games industry isn't as cheesy as hollywood but they've learnt alot from them.

Skyrim is a good example of a longer life game but it doesn't sell to the masses where other mmo's are still selling to the masses after many years.
Halo prolly made more money in its short life span than Skyrim or at least during the same period it was live.

 

[FuzzySpider]

It's just the way it is.
Competition drives sales more than a niche market.

Competition doesn't drive sales. Theoretically it drives innovation and quality, as business will develop better products and/or services to remain ahead of their competitors. But competition in a market place never actually increases the size of that market.

This game had to be like this or it would fail as an epic mmo. It still can.
The industry know what is selling atm and build games accordingly. The games industry isn't as cheesy as hollywood but they've learnt alot from them.

You keep implying the game would fail if it were less of a pew pew pew game (I think that's what you're implying, I'm not really sure) without really offering anything to substantiate that claim.

The games industry doesn't know what is selling at all at the moment and is flailing around wildly. Look at the console launch for a starters. The Xbox One, with its always on-kinect and non-lendable games was enough of a disaster Microsoft turned Don Mattrick into a sacrificial lamb and slaughtered him in public to appease the throngs of Xbox haters. Look at what happened in the MMO industry. Elder Scrolls Online just dropped their subscription (we all knew it was coming) and EA are desperately trying to rescue the most expensive game in history, which is also one of the biggest disasters (the Old Republic).

Skyrim is a good example of a longer life game but it doesn't sell to the masses where other mmo's are still selling to the masses after many years.
Halo prolly made more money in its short life span than Skyrim or at least during the same period it was live.

Skyrim doesn't sell to the masses? Are you really sure about that? I mean, really sure? In fact Skyrim held the record for the most concurrent users on Steam until just the other day when it was beaten by GTA 5 (another sandbox game). That's not niche, that is absolutely mass market appeal. And unlike the shooters that particular market isn't yet crowded with products.

It makes no sense for FD to market Elite as yet another vehicle based arena shooter into a market which already has Warthunder, World of Tanks/World of Warplanes, Mech Warrior, Tribes, etc. The only space sandboxes out there right now are the X-series of games. And X-Rebirth is terrible.

 

[Rocktopper]

All my friends thought this game was a super-cool space game like eve but in first person, and then one by one(except 1) left...Now it is only me and my best friend. And that is because we love space and we have nothing better until Star Citizen comes out(if ever) or No Mans Sky.

I think you're going to be even more disappointed if you're expecting No Man's Sky to be a "super cool space game like Eve".

 

[I and I Redeye]

Competition doesn't drive sales. Theoretically it drives innovation and quality, as business will develop better products and/or services to remain ahead of their competitors. But competition in a market place never actually increases the size of that market.


You keep implying the game would fail if it were less of a pew pew pew game (I think that's what you're implying, I'm not really sure) without really offering anything to substantiate that claim.

The games industry doesn't know what is selling at all at the moment and is flailing around wildly. Look at the console launch for a starters. The Xbox One, with its always on-kinect and non-lendable games was enough of a disaster Microsoft turned Don Mattrick into a sacrificial lamb and slaughtered him in public to appease the throngs of Xbox haters. Look at what happened in the MMO industry. Elder Scrolls Online just dropped their subscription (we all knew it was coming) and EA are desperately trying to rescue the most expensive game in history, which is also one of the biggest disasters (the Old Republic).



Skyrim doesn't sell to the masses? Are you really sure about that? I mean, really sure? In fact Skyrim held the record for the most concurrent users on Steam until just the other day when it was beaten by GTA 5 (another sandbox game). That's not niche, that is absolutely mass market appeal. And unlike the shooters that particular market isn't yet crowded with products.

It makes no sense for FD to market Elite as yet another vehicle based arena shooter into a market which already has Warthunder, World of Tanks/World of Warplanes, Mech Warrior, Tribes, etc. The only space sandboxes out there right now are the X-series of games. And X-Rebirth is terrible.

Competition does drive sales. I didn't say it increases the market. The market is a pie that anyone can take a share of. It's how much of that pie can you take, that is the competition.
How come 2 space sims (Elite and Star Citizen) with same appeal, appear at same time. It's not a coincendance. They know something we don't and they got in there 1st.
Now other smaller companies are doing it and will prolly tailor their games to your liking because thats all that is left to do.

I am saying I don't think Elite would sell more copies if it was less or no pew pew. I think it is selling more cos it has pew pew.
That's only my opinion. Like everyone else.
If it had your version of Elite it would still sell but I don't think it would be as much as the path they took.


ESO and Old Republic were both doomed before release. ESO for certain. There is plenty of fail games out there. That happens.
I'm sure Skyrim sales got a boost from announcing ESO. This happens too. I won't read into that to much but it does have a good strong fan base even if they are not playing.

Look at Space Engineers. No one is talking about it yet it's meant to be an excellent game. My friend is testing it for the last year. He says it's brilliant but it won't sell to the masses. It got no pew pew at all. Not even with npc's.

 

[FuzzySpider]

Competition does drive sales. I didn't say it increases the market. The market is a pie that anyone can take a share of. It's how much of that pie can you take, that is the competition.

Then I don't know what you mean by "driving sales". "Driving sales" would be taken to mean pushing sales up. Competition does the opposite of that, it reduces your sales and thus forces you to act to stop your sales from falling.

Now other smaller companies are doing it and will prolly tailor their games to your liking because thats all that is left to do.

I am saying I don't think Elite would sell more copies if it was less or no pew pew. I think it is selling more cos it has pew pew.
That's only my opinion. Like everyone else.
If it had your version of Elite it would still sell but I don't think it would be as much as the path they took.

Look at Space Engineers. No one is talking about it yet it's meant to be an excellent game. My friend is testing it for the last year. He says it's brilliant but it won't sell to the masses. It got no pew pew at all. Not even with npc's.

Look at the list of top selling games of all time. Tell me how far down the list you have to go before you find pew pew and pew. Incidentally Skyrim is on that list, Halo isn't. And if you look at the overall pattern you'll find that there aren't as many multiplayer PvP type games as there are other games. Puzzlers do well, but except for those sandbox games invariably do better than shoot 'em ups. Minecraft and GTA are the two most popular PC titles, and except for a smattering of Calls of Duty and one Battlefield I can't see hardcore action games on the list at all.

I've posted a lot of actual stats and figures to make my case here that the game doesn't have to be marketed in such an action-oriented way in order to be successful. Do you have anything a little more substantive to refute them?

 

[Gilmour]

Yesterday, en route to a community goal in the BV Pheonicis system, I got interdicted and then attacked. Not by a pirate, not by a bounty hunter, not by someone trying to prevent the goal from being met or someone looking to inquire about teaming up in a wing. This was someone who just wanted some PvP arena type combat.

This was, frankly, extremely irritating.

I've noticed around here a very large number of threads which basically ask for enhancements for PVP type combat. Many more threads demand that starter ships such as the Eagle are buffed to be able to compete with FDLs and Vultures. The common response to these threads are that this is Elite, duh, not EVE or some other arena shooter (I have said as much myself).

But why so many people who believe otherwise? A very large number of people appear to be here not to play Elite, but some other blast-a-thon game.

Those of you who have Steam installed, head on over to the Elite: Dangerous store page. They have 4 videos there to promote the game and all but one of them imply the game is basically glorious space battles of glory.

Look at this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwvjElmFCfE

Glorious eye candy of glory, but is that really Elite?

I got the game I expected and I got the game I wanted. But then I was never subjected to the marketing, I got the game on the strength of the old Elite games.

What about you lot?

NOTE: This isn't about the quality of the game or even whether you like the game. It's about whether the expectation of what the game is matches what is portrayed by FDs marketing department.

NOTE 2: This is not about the rights and wrongs of Solo and Open or about PvP or what someone should or shouldn't do. There are already loads of threads on that. This is about how the game is being sold to consumers.

lol if they sold the game no one would buy, they sell the idea of space flight. There is an old advertising adage: sell the sizzle, not the steak. I wish the game was even close to the hype, I bought the hype and sales pitches, and now I am stuck with a crappy game I hate to play for so many reasons and shortcomings. If they ever offer a free trial version, sales will stop completely.

 

[EdzUp]

Marketing wise I would describe E: D as a "space exploration and trading simulation" not a "pew pew space UT game"

I also bought on the strength of Elite, Frontier and FFE (the latter i still play even now) yes i wanted the Krait in there but the game is moving forwards nicely but its not just a pvp game.