Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
You might want to read this thread and continue discussions on Guilds there - or run the risk that this thread is merged with that one.
Capital Ships ...
- Thread starter Kernyx
- Start date
You might want to read this thread and continue discussions on Guilds there - or run the risk that this thread is merged with that one.
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Somehow the size of the Condor seems wrong to me... The Sidewinder was estimated to be between 18 and 21 meters wide, the Condor isn't that big ?
Oh it correlates. Thanks. Now if we could have the same kind of document for every ship...
2.5 meters high though ? I suppose it is with the landing gear deployed...
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Some of us have already paid for it.
Capships the size of the majestic under player control? Thanks but no thanks.
Even if you could afford the buying cost, and even if any of the Imperial or Federation Military shipyards would actually sell you one.. where do you get the manpower to control it? What do you pay those people with? Or do you suppose one man can fly a capship? Even the Asp should optimally have at least a crew of two, but since there's no crew yet, we can somehow suspend our disbelief. But for a ship that's a few kms long and probably houses the population of an outpost? Heck no.
You could argue that multiplayer shps would be the answer, so then what. You try to recruit 50-100 players to run a single capship and all its fighters? Who owns the ship then, who decides when it can be taken out for a spin?
The sheer cost of the ship itself, maintenance, the cost of the crew, and the fact that you'd probably be kindly asked to off from any system controlled by the great powers (seriously, which country would allow you to chill out in their national waters with an armed and combat ready aircraft carrier as an individual?), there's just problems I see with this. Not to mention the grounds up redesign of perspective and playstyle that would be needed to efficiently control a ship.
Even if you could afford the buying cost, and even if any of the Imperial or Federation Military shipyards would actually sell you one.. where do you get the manpower to control it? What do you pay those people with? Or do you suppose one man can fly a capship? Even the Asp should optimally have at least a crew of two, but since there's no crew yet, we can somehow suspend our disbelief. But for a ship that's a few kms long and probably houses the population of an outpost? Heck no.
You could argue that multiplayer shps would be the answer, so then what. You try to recruit 50-100 players to run a single capship and all its fighters? Who owns the ship then, who decides when it can be taken out for a spin?
The sheer cost of the ship itself, maintenance, the cost of the crew, and the fact that you'd probably be kindly asked to off from any system controlled by the great powers (seriously, which country would allow you to chill out in their national waters with an armed and combat ready aircraft carrier as an individual?), there's just problems I see with this. Not to mention the grounds up redesign of perspective and playstyle that would be needed to efficiently control a ship.
Funny that you ask, I'm writing a novel about an AI ship the size of a city that runs without a single human being ...
We're talking about the future, think futuristic!
We already have drone carriers today what else will we have once we colonize the galaxy?
I believe remote controlled turrets and fighters are a piece of cake in the future, as well as fully autonomous machines such as capital ships.
Everything else is a bonus.
Also I have very specific ideas about how the fighters of a carrier should work.
There needs to be a reason why they are there, they can't just be there for decoration purposes, they need to effect the outcome of a battle to justify this huge waste of material and technology.
I believe they should be divided in 2 classes:
Interceptors and Bombers.
The Interceptors attack enemy bombers and interceptors, to protect their own bombers.
The bombers aren't as slow as you might think at first.
Their purpose is an economic one:
You can arm a missile with all the technology you want to make it dodge and deflect all incoming counter measures, but once it hits its target, it will be destroyed forever.
A bomber may survive and participate in the next battle and the one after that.
The actual weapon that is dropped on the enemy carrier therefore doesn't need to have any advanced technology in it, in fact the only thing it has to do is to blow up, everything else can be done by the bomber that is (just) fast enough to get away from the explosion in time.
Player controlled? No. But the missions and targets of capitol ships will be able to be influenced by players. This is what FD have indicated. How they are going to implement this is up for debate.
So you're saying remove ALL crew and just watch the AI controlling it.
... so watching an almost immovable AI driven object doing nothing but giving you the same 3 orders over and over again is more fun than flying it yourself?
I'm pretty sure it's a no to player controlled dreadnoughts and the like; with FD clearly putting the emphasis on the game being about a lone pilot in their craft.
Big ships like that would require crew and I can't envisage FD implementing either player or NPC crew roles like navigation, gunner, etc...
By the same token, neither are players ever intended to become corporations or large institutions, which really would be required to warrant having such an important vessel commissioned.
Big ships like that would require crew and I can't envisage FD implementing either player or NPC crew roles like navigation, gunner, etc...
By the same token, neither are players ever intended to become corporations or large institutions, which really would be required to warrant having such an important vessel commissioned.
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I agree player controlled capital ships are unlikely but I hope you are wrong on the NPC crew. (they were a "thing" in the earlier Frontier and FFE). They could fit in quite easily into the existing structure.
Not sure if ships would be grounded without the required crew (like in other games - though if they are I am fine with it as well), but I like the idea of the ships computer taking (very) basic control of un"manned" stations, but if you actually have crew at stations you get slight perks (and different crew could have different skills which we can train/level up/replace when we find better staff).
indeed (little segue now) but for me this fixes the problem with "away missions" when we eventually get to land and get out of our ships.
right now, I can see no way in elite lore to be able to survive being eaten by a wild animal on a planet BUT if our CMDR never leaves his ship, but we actually order a crew member to go on away missions, (but then we control our crew member) then this all of a sudden is fixed, as they can die, without affecting our CMDR
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The bigger playable ships in the game is already built to support crew (NPCs or players). In regards to the roles you specified, well...you better take a peek at this design proposal --> Ship Crews
So they have envisioned it already...you might have noticed those empty seats in the ships...
This is IMO also the reason why we haven't seen or will get a "autopilot" in the ships. If an autopilot existed then what is the hired pilot/navigator suppose to do?
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What "executive control" means can be debated though.
I didn't recall that, thank you for highlighting my mistake.
Hopefully, in light of Powerplay it will simply mean something along the lines of one of the votes for a Power being where to send their cap ship (if they have one).
I didn't recall that, thank you for highlighting my mistake.
Hopefully, in light of Powerplay it will simply mean something along the lines of one of the votes for a Power being where to send their cap ship (if they have one).
*Touches nose and points at jabokai.* We have a winner.
Depends, if u could, for example, order it to attack a space station then watch the fireworks in 3rd party while also contributing to taking out the viper defense fleet, then later dock with the capital ship for mobile repairs and then jump with the capital ship to a star system far far away.
If we're already talking about NPCs and walkable ships, why don't we talk about RPG-elements aswell?
Firstly I'd like to mention that capital ships would make awesome high-end content and I believe things SHOULD scale upwards and things SHOULD be hard and take a long time to achieve (not tedius though!).
That opens up pathways for players to work together.
Therefore player/guild owned systems, stations and capital ships would allow the playerbase to create their own missions and their own goals (think about what still keeps a whole bunch of players at EVE)
A capital ship should have AI turrets and ships.
However it is up to the developers to decide wether those are actual lore friendly AI driven devices, or NPC and optionally player controlled devices.
The fact that a capital ship would be ludicrously expensive is NOT a bad thing, it is the fundament of a high-end game element!
It is something to work for and spend a lot of additional time with, once you've seen about everything the game has to offer.
So ...
IF the developers would choose NPCs to man capital ships, and since they are already planning to implement walkable ships and NPC crews for smaller ships,
why not go a step further and make those NPCs actual virtual people you may care about?
Why not implement RPG-elements (such as multiple-choice dialogues, skill system, equipment, etc.) that allow you to interact with those NPCs and make them get better at what they are doing?
Talk to your gunman and make friends with them, gain their loyality so they work harder, train them so they learn how to hit targets that are hard to hit and teach them to defend themselves once your own ship gets boarded.
This game is begging for awesome new game elements to turn it from a docking simulator into an incredibly enjoyable space sim.
So about payment and logistics when it comes to NPC crews:
It depends on how you put things.
Are you just the captain of the ship or are you its owner?
How does the ship make money in general? What is its purpose?
How about factions offer capital ships special missions such as participating in large scale battles.
Those missions would be lucrative for the player(s) that own(s) the capital ship - a CAPITAL ship's services aren't cheap to lease!
The crew would simply receive a good share of the rewards!
Firstly I'd like to mention that capital ships would make awesome high-end content and I believe things SHOULD scale upwards and things SHOULD be hard and take a long time to achieve (not tedius though!).
That opens up pathways for players to work together.
Therefore player/guild owned systems, stations and capital ships would allow the playerbase to create their own missions and their own goals (think about what still keeps a whole bunch of players at EVE)
A capital ship should have AI turrets and ships.
However it is up to the developers to decide wether those are actual lore friendly AI driven devices, or NPC and optionally player controlled devices.
The fact that a capital ship would be ludicrously expensive is NOT a bad thing, it is the fundament of a high-end game element!
It is something to work for and spend a lot of additional time with, once you've seen about everything the game has to offer.
So ...
IF the developers would choose NPCs to man capital ships, and since they are already planning to implement walkable ships and NPC crews for smaller ships,
why not go a step further and make those NPCs actual virtual people you may care about?
Why not implement RPG-elements (such as multiple-choice dialogues, skill system, equipment, etc.) that allow you to interact with those NPCs and make them get better at what they are doing?
Talk to your gunman and make friends with them, gain their loyality so they work harder, train them so they learn how to hit targets that are hard to hit and teach them to defend themselves once your own ship gets boarded.
This game is begging for awesome new game elements to turn it from a docking simulator into an incredibly enjoyable space sim.
So about payment and logistics when it comes to NPC crews:
It depends on how you put things.
Are you just the captain of the ship or are you its owner?
How does the ship make money in general? What is its purpose?
How about factions offer capital ships special missions such as participating in large scale battles.
Those missions would be lucrative for the player(s) that own(s) the capital ship - a CAPITAL ship's services aren't cheap to lease!
The crew would simply receive a good share of the rewards!
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The bigger playable ships in the game is already built to support crew (NPCs or players). In regards to the roles you specified, well...you better take a peek at this design proposal --> Ship Crews
So they have envisioned it already...you might have noticed those empty seats in the ships...
This is IMO also the reason why we haven't seen or will get a "autopilot" in the ships. If an autopilot existed then what is the hired pilot/navigator suppose to do?
Well that's me corrected
I always kinda assumed the seats were for passengers. As for NPC crew, I just can't see it even if FD did announce their possible intentions. We're four months into the game and still have yet to see static avatars for the cockpit.
Fully stated NPCs with animation, duties, creepy habits...? I dunno? And it sorta contradicts the hands-on, individual pilot tone we've seen so far.
I've been wrong plenty times before however.
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I didn't recall that, thank you for highlighting my mistake.
Hopefully, in light of Powerplay it will simply mean something along the lines of one of the votes for a Power being where to send their cap ship (if they have one).
Yeah that makes plenty more sense to me.