Please automate Supercruise - its the most pointless gameplay element.

[babelfisch]

Launching the ship only requires you to press "launch". And currently you can log off, and log back on and appear outside the station - which can all be done with keystrokes.

So the same problem with crew interaction applies with the example given above - if there is some way to select between crew members via keystroke, it's by default automateable.

The only way to make something impossible (or at least very difficult) to automate is if there's a stage in the process that cannot be done without manual maneuvering with the joystick/mouse/gamepad.

So basically my only reservation in automatic supercruise revolves around that point - will it create a chain that can be automated. If not, then it's something that can at least be discussed and pursued. But if it is... best not to go there at all.




Well, not everything. Just one load of cargo and an insurance rebuy. Once the bot makes X runs it's all profit.

The problem is partly ethical, partly exploitable. Ethical because you should have to work to make your money regardless of what career you're in. It's morally repugnant to think of someone letting a bot run in a closed loop run in an out of the way system for a week (ah, forgot to add "refuel" to above list), and come back with a billion dollars.

And the exploitable element is how this would be sold to players either indirectly as cash-for-creds is currently done (so the bot makes those selling cash for creds that much easier) or even more unethically, by distributing or selling the bot program to others for them to to tweak and modify as needed.

It's also not just the intended consequences, but the unforeseeable unintended consequences that might come up later.

----

Personally I still think what might help many people who don't like Supercruise is to have their ETA and distance readout show up everywhere - make sure it's visible not just when looking straight ahead, but when looking at the left and right UI panels, when using the Galaxy and System maps, and eventually when using GalNet and the Powers menus (in whatever form they take).

That way you can simply set your course, set your cruise speed, and kill time as you see fit until you get close.

It would help, at the very least, I think.

There already is an align with ship trajectory function. If you are unable to enter SC without aligning it would be very difficult to use a bot.

 

[777Driver]

Launching the ship only requires you to press "launch". And currently you can log off, and log back on and appear outside the station - which can all be done with keystrokes.

So the same problem with crew interaction applies with the example given above - if there is some way to select between crew members via keystroke, it's by default automateable.

The only way to make something impossible (or at least very difficult) to automate is if there's a stage in the process that cannot be done without manual maneuvering with the joystick/mouse/gamepad.

So basically my only reservation in automatic supercruise revolves around that point - will it create a chain that can be automated. If not, then it's something that can at least be discussed and pursued. But if it is... best not to go there at all.

I guess the most simple solution would be another real world device used 'Pilot response warning' If the autopilot is in control, a random msg will pop up, the crew have to make an input to clear the warning. In the case of ED, if no responce is detected after a certain amount of time the A/P disconnects.

Still, I think the bot thing is a minor issue, in open a cmdr will eventually get you, in solo you will be interdicted if you left the game running overnight. Besides, cheaters already have much better ways to make cash.

Just for the record, I don't agree with the OP in the slightest, autopilot should not be for people who 'hate' supercruise.

 

[Schrefu]

I think the concerns of botting are taken totally out of proportion. Also they're not relevant to the idea and the game since they might even happen if FD never actually implements it. If supercruise auto-pilot (or similar mechanisms) make the game more consistent, believable or enjoyable, they must be good ideas, right? So there's this worry about how this might make botting possible, and the existance of such botting might ruin ones personal experience of the game... Yet, isn't that already what's going on? There are many against the auto-pilot based on the assumption that it will inevitably lead to out-of-game-world changes that makes the in-game-experience worse and they're willing to give up on the positive value such a thing might have on their own in-game-experience. Maybe such a change would add a lot of game play value, but because we were not willing to take a risk, we'll never find out. That sounds pretty unenjoyable to me...

And if we're talking about game mechanisms, and arguing that if they're automatable they're not enjoyable, harmful or simply not good, would that not make chess, checkers, poker, blackjack and many other "old world games" pretty un-fun horrible games?

 

[GimpstersGhost]

I have stayed of this argument for some time. However after thinking this over I do not see the downside of allowing players to fit an autopilot or navigation computer to allow for point to point super cruising. The caveat being that it is a direct point to point system and maintains the speed in the blue range (75% throttle). It should not have the capability to navigate around celestial bodies and should autodrop from SC when interdicted, upon reaching the destination, encountering a celestial body or object in transit or at the operators request. It have the same fitting requirements of a Docking Computer.

It would not interfere with others enjoyment of the game and I see no downsides for either those who would want to use it for those choosing not to. It really would be no different then how warping around a system works in EVE. I enjoy SC myself but can understand those who don't.

 

[Rasilon]

The arguments about bot use not to implement a game feature are moot, there are bots and money hacks in the game now. I hate bots, hacks and exploits, but they are used all over the game industry to farm. Then they sell game money or items to people that want quick cash. Developers strangling their game to avoid this behavior is futile, because the hackers and script kiddies are relentless. They don't need auto cruise to farm money. Hopefully some one, some where, some day will have a light bulb moment and find a way to stop the curse of these game farmers forever.

 

[Schrefu]

I have stayed of this argument for some time. However after thinking this over I do not see the downside of allowing players to fit an autopilot or navigation computer to allow for point to point super cruising. The caveat being that it is a direct point to point system and maintains the speed in the blue range (75% throttle). It should not have the capability to navigate around celestial bodies and should autodrop from SC when interdicted, upon reaching the destination, encountering a celestial body or object in transit or at the operators request. It have the same fitting requirements of a Docking Computer.

It would not interfere with others enjoyment of the game and I see no downsides for either those who would want to use it for those choosing not to. It really would be no different then how warping around a system works in EVE. I enjoy SC myself but can understand those who don't.

So, you're actually against auto-pilot? Either I didn't understand what you meant, or it's a really clever troll. NOT navigating around celestial bodies, DIRECT point-to-point travel mode, FIXED speed... So how is that any different from when you center the destination manually, set the throttle to 75% manually and then not touch the input again until it's time for pressing "'J"? I'm hoping you'll clarify what you meant (for me at least)

 

[GimpstersGhost]

So long as their are people willing to pay real money for ingame advantages, there will be people who find a way to make it happen. Its a consumer driven cycle.

 

[Armour]

I think the concerns of botting are taken totally out of proportion

I don't.

The arguments about bot use not to implement a game feature are moot, there are bots and money hacks in the game now.

Please provide a credible reference (or preferably a working download link) to a bot for Elite: Dangerous that automates interstellar and interplanetary travel. Back up your claim, and prove that arguments against botting are "moot".

 

[babelfisch]

I think it would already help to speed up deacceleration. For me this is the only boring part of SC, you spend more time in the blue zone than you spend on actually travelling.

 

[mossfoot]

The arguments about bot use not to implement a game feature are moot, there are bots and money hacks in the game now.

Wow... it did NOT take me long to search and confirm all that's true.

What's more disturbing, they put those programs on a subscription basis... you pay by the month.

Good grief...

 

[Schrefu]

The arguments about bot use not to implement a game feature are moot, there are bots and money hacks in the game now. I hate bots, hacks and exploits, but they are used all over the game industry to farm. Then they sell game money or items to people that want quick cash. Developers strangling their game to avoid this behavior is futile, because the hackers and script kiddies are relentless. They don't need auto cruise to farm money. Hopefully some one, some where, some day will have a light bulb moment and find a way to stop the curse of these game farmers forever.

I agree, seems like cheating and botting is very much like media piracy. Pirates aren't lost sales, because they were never customers to begin with. And most mechanisms to thwart piracy end up only hurting legitimate consumers.

Well, not offering premium currency/items/services based on micro-transactions would be a start... and as far as I can tell, ED doesn't have this and doesn't plan for it (paints don't count here, since they're not tradeable and cannot be bought with in-game). Of course we still share a world, so trade-bots could ruin trade routes for everyone. But then again, the background simulation might react and it'll create opportunities elsewhere? Also, in a way, could player trade-botting really be much worse than the thousands of NPC traders currently being simulated around-the-clock?

Then there are the community goals... I don't have any idea on these, other than: don't participate, and you're not being cheated.

 

[Rasilon]

I don't.


Please provide a credible reference (or preferably a working download link) to a bot for Elite: Dangerous that automates interstellar and interplanetary travel. Back up your claim, and prove that arguments against botting are "moot".

Yehhh umm No.

 

[babelfisch]

As said above if you need to align your ship with trajectory before entering SC bots are no issue.

 

[Armour]

Yehhh umm No.

As I thought - full of it.

 

[Schrefu]

As I thought - full of it.

You know fully well (or at least should, since there was that thing you should've read and checked when registering) that it's not allowed to link to these sites here. So aside from very vague hints for obvious search terms you might use, none of us is actually allowed to do this.

And I'd like to point out, you're not backing your opinion much either, so... We're just sharing experiences and opinions, there's actually no requirement for anyone to back their opinions to be participating and valid.

 

[GimpstersGhost]

Schrefu,

What I meant, but did not fully explain, is that yes I think that a module should be available to automate the movement of a ship through SC from one point to another. Just like in EVE it should align the ship, engage the Frameshift drive and disengage the drive at the arrival at the destination or if the flight is interrupted. It would still be the pilots job to ensure they have an clear path between the point of origin and destination. Unless I am mistaken the OP was annoyed with having to manually keep their nose on the target, (issues with controler drift), and manually disengage at the destination.

However if that is still not enough automation for you, then perhaps it can have a little more intelligence and plot a route as a series of legs to avoid known obstacles, (those for which you have data in your ship computers). Some people however will feel that is too much automation.

So at a minimum I feel it should be able to orient the ship to the known destination, accelerate and engage enter SC, cruse at 75% (Safe) throttle and disengage at the destination. All other rules of SC remain in effect.

At a maximum I feel it could also allow for multi-leg navigation to avoid known objects. Meaning you have to already have the systems objects in your ships navigation database. So this extended functionality would not be available in Unknown systems.

It should be less hassle but not the fastest way to get from point A to point B.

Does that make my opinion more clear?

 

[Armour]

And I'd like to point out, you're not backing your opinion much either, so... We're just sharing experiences and opinions, there's actually no requirement for anyone to back their opinions to be participating and valid.

I don't have to back mine up, because it's common sense. If end-to-end autopilot is in the game, bots become easier to create, credit farming gets even easier, and community goals with a trade focus will be decided to a greater extent by which side is running more trade bots. You can run multiple instances of the game with one account as it is, so you wouldn't be limited to a single bot either.

 

[babelfisch]

IF we get an autopilot and the orrey view it would be possible to set a route to avoid stellar objects before enabling autopilot.

 

[Schrefu]

Schrefu,

What I meant, but did not fully explain, is that yes I think that a module should be available to automate the movement of a ship through SC from one point to another. Just like in EVE it should align the ship, engage the Frameshift drive and disengage the drive at the arrival at the destination or if the flight is interrupted. It would still be the pilots job to ensure they have an clear path between the point of origin and destination. Unless I am mistaken the OP was annoyed with having to manually keep their nose on the target, (issues with controler drift), and manually disengage at the destination.

However if that is still not enough automation for you, then perhaps it can have a little more intelligence and plot a route as a series of legs to avoid known obstacles, (those for which you have data in your ship computers). Some people however will feel that is too much automation.

So at a minimum I feel it should be able to orient the ship to the known destination, accelerate and engage enter SC, cruse at 75% (Safe) throttle and disengage at the destination. All other rules of SC remain in effect.

At a maximum I feel it could also allow for multi-leg navigation to avoid known objects. Meaning you have to already have the systems objects in your ships navigation database. So this extended functionality would not be available in Unknown systems.

It should be less hassle but not the fastest way to get from point A to point B.

Does that make my opinion more clear?

Ah, now I get it, thank you That would make it work much like the hyperjumps, except right now there's nothing in the hyperspace that could happen or get in the way You know, I like your ideas, would love to see that as several tiers of auto-pilot. First one is just direct point-to-point at slow speed, next auto-pilot would add some basic circumnavigation of known celestial objects, third one would be much better at circumnavigation and maybe also add some more speed... something like that.

 

[GimpstersGhost]

Independance War 2 had a SC like mode and an autopilot that would drop you out of cruise and reorient to navigate around gravity well generating orbital bodies like planets and moons.