1984 Elite vs 2014 Elite

I think the greatest leap forward is actually when Elite goes from Elite 84 to Elite 2: Frontier and Frontier: First Encounters - it was such a big technical and design leap back in 1993 that for a game from that period the concept was absolutely advanced for that period and the technical challenges was quite significant (hence both Elite Frontiers and FFE was quite buggy).

Elite: Dangerous is actually just a technical evolution off Elite Frontier and FFE. Concept wise not much was in fact changed from those 2 games.

For Elite lovers who have not played Elite Frontier and FFE I do feel they are missing out, massively.
 
I meant ETS (Eurotruck simulator) :)
Well im sorry anyway.
I think the whole "old gameplay" argument is completely bogus (i supported that myself for a couple of years). And i just get tired to hear it repeated all the time. Old gameplay is here to stay and always have been, the only kind of "new" thing, gameplay wise, on the horizon is VR, but even that has been done before.

I just sigh when journalists say that "Oh it's good but the gameplay is old!" (for example wasteland 2, Pillars of Eternity etc) on one page and on the other says "Oh this is so good!" (for example CoD games, Gears of war, witcher etc). ;)

I'm following a few people on Flickr that plays ETS and while I cannot picture myself sitting there driving a virtual truck through countries that I've visited, I do understand the laidback gamestyle of the franchise. I kinda envy the people who's driving (or flying in FSX) for hours upon hours. I would never have the patience, or free time for that matter, to engage myself into a true simulator.

You have no idea how right you are there. VR is a luxury most people won't afford with, and it will eventually die out only to give room to something else. What's left is the single monitor gaming, that's been around for ages. The only thing that is certain to evolve is the monitor's native resolution and its sizes.
I'm on 3 monitors and won't budge an inch there. Occasionally I must disable Nvidia surround due to compatability with many games (it often requires third party hacks to actually use Surround) and the fact that my rig can't handle most newer games at an aspect ratio of 21:9.

I do love the style of games like Pillars of Autumn, and many years ago I bought a bunch of those 2D fantasy games but I rarely plays them. I think I just like the style, and there's some nostalgic values in there too. But I often find those games unintuitive and clumsy, not matter how hard I try.

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BTW you're all talking GTA in 1920's style. You know GTA has a little affiliate called Red Dead Redemption? ;) Love that game! That was 1899 though and not 1920.

I would absolutely LOVE GTA in the future! Think Blade Runner vs GTA! :D
 
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The best feature of the remake is the ability to go out bounty hunting with my dad (who's 70 years old and Dangerous!), something I longed to do as a child.
 
I bought my C64 at the early 90's from my cousin for 5 bucks (lol) with a ton of casettes, floppy drive with a few games on floppy as well. Never found Elite though... Today after reading through a lot of posts (in my thread on the topic as well) I wish I had discovered it.
I did love Tie Fighter though. I remember having to boot up my 486 with a special boot floppy to free XMS(?) memory lol.
 
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Started with a ZX81 and then when everyone had a Spectrum I went for the C64. And then when everyone went for the Amiga I picked the Atari ST. That, perhaps, wasn't such a cool a move. Mercenary, wow, thank you for bringing that back to mind. Where's the Mercenary 4 Kickstarter! (No, not the April Fools Day one. ;))
 
I bought my C64 at the early 90's from my cousin for 5 bucks (lol) with a ton of casettes, floppy drive with a few games on floppy as well. Never found Elite though... Today after reading through a lot of posts I wish I had discovered it.
I did love Tie Fighter though. I remember having to boot up my 486 with a special boot floppy to free XMS(?) memory lol.

Tie Fighter, Wing Commander and Freelancer imo are all important games that bought the space sims genre to the next stage of evolution (just as important as Elite was in founding the genre).

I wish I can find the chart again but PC Powerplay back about 5-6 years ago had an article and a chart about the evolution of the space sim genre (from Elite all the way to X Series and EVE). It was a very good chronology of all space sims.
 
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dayrth

Volunteer Moderator
If you must, then watch the gameplay here...


No don't. Whoever that is playing really isn't very good at it. (If that is you Red Dirt Nurse, Sorry).

Elite II FRONTIER was what many of us played and was much better than the 1st game ;)

Can't agree with you there ;). Tried the second game, didn't try the third. Had a go at oolite. They failed to give me the same sense of awe that the first Elite did. As has any other game since. ED has managed to bring that back for me and for that I am very grateful :)
 
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You're correct, modern computers are more powerful. And it's because of this that it's much harder to develop games, these days. Elite was written by two lads. Elite dangerous has needed dozens of people.

100% of Elite was written. Sounds, graphics and content. It was all coded. And it all fit into a few kilobytes.

ED has needed teams to focus on the sound. Teams to focus on special effects. Teams to focus on models. Teams to focus on coding. Specialists like Sarah have one job (write ai). And you need leads to direct everything.

Just to get the game into the state it is now has taken dozens of people years to achieve. And not with the huge budget most games these days demand. Yet it does more than Elite did. Despite the assertion that it hasn't evolved enough.

It's no surprise it's a work in progress. Technology these days demands enormous levels of work to create something as visually, aurally and technically advanced as ED. And it will keep evolving.

Humans are only capable of so much. Humans haven't particularly changed since 1984. We haven't increased our ability to work by the same magnitudes as computers have. The developers can only churn out so much over time.

They could have focused the last two years on making ED evolutionary, compared to Elite, by only developing the story, the ai, the galaxy, missions, emergent game play and whatever else it is that you think should have been better. But they'd have needed to do it at a cost. Wireframe graphics anyone?

I'll repeat what I said in that thread about ED compared to Elite.

ED is unlike any game I've played. No other game allows you to explore a 1:1 scale representation of our galaxy. No other game makes me feel I'm actually in a space ship, actually flying it. All other games I've played make me the hero, the most important character, the protagonist in a drama that all comes down to me. ED doesn't do that. It makes me feel tiny. As it should. Yet I can make a difference. I can impact events. And I can do it in the way I want to.

This is the space game I've wanted to play since I first saw Elite. I wanted to play this game when Eve came out and I was disappointed to discover it was just a point and click strategy game in space. This is the game I wanted to play when I saw No Man's Sky for the first time, yet found out it wasn't going to let me play with friends, wasn't going to be released as a pc game initially and wouldn't let me finally play Elite online.

It's the space game I've always wanted. And the best thing is, it's going to keep getting better. Even Frontier bored me after a short time because the whole thing was static. And it never got better.

Combat in ED is far and beyond the best space combat I've experienced in any game. The audio is the best I've heard. The graphics are excellent and the lore is superb, rich and interesting.

I couldn't disagree more with the idea that ED has only evolved in visuals and audio, over Elite. It's gigantic, compared. It's online. And it's way more fun.

I can't disagree that it needs more development. It does. But that's no surprise. FD's ambitions are huge. It's going to take time to fulfil them.

But for those who enjoy ED, that's only a positive. Not a negative.

So if I agree that ED hasn't evolved enough over Elite, then the undeniable truth is that Elite cannot ever evolve any further. ED will. So it's only a matter of time until what you want comes true.

For me, it already did. I can't imagine how anyone who loved Elite can look at ED and not feel this is what they've always wanted. It has its flaws. But it's like no other game out there. And that's because no one else would dare attempt it.

And that's it, isn't it? No one else has dared attempt it. Which is why we've waited 30 years for it. And that's why we are going to have to wait for it to reach its full potential.

Thankfully, while we wait, those of us who enjoy it get to play the game we've wanted for 30 years.
 
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Eve is the daddy atm.
ED has a long way to go to catch up.

EvE and ED are totally different games and has little to do with each other except the general space-based theme.

I can say this from experience, played eve from 2003 approximately for 10 years while waiting something more like Elite to show up (yes there were various [insert prefix here]-lancer games, there were decent space combat simulators such as Freespace and its sequels, there were X-series, Evochron etc etc.)

...but no other like Elite: I don't care if its an inch deep miles wide sea, for I had always and good imagination and was really anticipating kinda 1st person space-sim, where you could explore an huge areas of empty space - not those boxed-styled "star- or jump-gate" style restricted area games where you could not feel the vastness of space!

You know, I was so desperate to catch the spirit of original Elite, Frontier and its sequel, that I actually played pretty much community created Oolite and OpenGL version of Frontier (can't remember the name). I know this is an individual opinion - or sense of nostalgia, as someone here has put it - but no other game has struck me so hard than ED in recent years. I only wish I had a PC powerful enough to run ED on virtual equipment (VR OR). Or at least in 3 screens. I have a pretty crappy setup only having 1 24" screen and x-52 pro HOTAS setup, and still it is an marvelous experience.

-v
 
This is why I started this thread.
I was hoping that ED wasn't a remake of a 30 year old space game.
And while I do appreciate FDEVs remarkable tech work on the galaxy, I can't really play a game and care too much about the technology behind it. It has to be a game in the all that tech too...

Although Oolite has been mentioned in passing earlier in this thread, I suggest that you try it out to see what a (faithful, passionate) direct remake of a 30 year old space game does feel like, and compare it to ED. I think you will appreciate that a lot of work has gone into ED to make it a relevant contemporary game.

Elite: Dangerous, whatever its flaws, is the game I've been wanting to play since 1999 or 2000, when I felt a sequel to FFE was due. And it's far far better than that 2000 game would have been.

Actually a 2000-era demake of ED would be hilarious, but more time-intensive than I can resource right now - got to complete the 71-stop rare commodity route!
 

That is a very well written post young man. And it just so happens pretty much in tune with my own feelings as well.

One thing ED doesn't do is pander to the lowest common denominator like so many publishers/devs aim for these days. Its a bit of a niche game - which is both a strength and a weakness. But its right in my particular niche, which makes me very happy.
 
I too was a child of Elite. As I grew up it came with me: Elite on a BBC B+ with 128kb RAM (super posh!), Frontier on an Amiga A1200 and First Encounters on my Pentium 60.

FE was my favourite by far but the most time spent was with Frontier. This game shows so much promise and its stayed true to its roots. I just hope FD don't cave to those that want to turn this game into something it's not.

Now if only FD will get the ability to have our fleet of ships moved to us, I would have no reason to moan!
 
I too was a child of Elite. As I grew up it came with me: Elite on a BBC B+ with 128kb RAM (super posh!), Frontier on an Amiga A1200 and First Encounters on my Pentium 60.

FE was my favourite by far but the most time spent was with Frontier. This game shows so much promise and its stayed true to its roots. I just hope FD don't cave to those that want to turn this game into something it's not.

Now if only FD will get the ability to have our fleet of ships moved to us, I would have no reason to moan!

I have a great deal of trouble reading any of your posts because I crack up every time I see your avatar.
Very cool.
 
Great thread OP, rep given :)

Jet Set Willy! Manic Miner!

Now thinking of making my sig:
"Old enough and posh enough to have played the original on a Beeb!"
 
I only wish I had a PC powerful enough to run ED on virtual equipment (VR OR). Or at least in 3 screens. I have a pretty crappy setup only having 1 24" screen and x-52 pro HOTAS setup, and still it is an marvelous experience.

I agree. If I'm going to use a Rift with ED in the near future I need a gpu that could render this game, with my ReShade+ME profile, at 70+ FPS. But I do have slight astigmatism and need glasses. Not bad though, but I hope it won't cause issues.
My rig can't handle 3 monitors at ultra, but at medium it's just perfect. And to tell the truth, I'd rather play Elite Dangerous at medium on 3 screens, than play it on ultra on a single monitor.
I also have a X-55 HOTAS. The thing with Elite is that the fun and the immersion scales with the amount of hardware you can use.

I just found out about Oolite and I'm quite curious about it. Perhaps I'll try that. ;)
 
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Mafia and Mafia II are as close to a mobster-like GTA. Both absolutely wonderful games, although if you're expecting GTA, the Mafia games are not that. Mafia I is very hard to find now that the licensing for the music has expired, so expect to drop $200-300 for that title.

As for laid back sim games, Farming Simulator has to be right up there. I can't play that game anymore because it sucks me in for days and weeks at a time. It's a beautiful, engrossing, nonviolent, very very slow sim. Makes Truck Simulator look like iRacing and FSX like Top Gun.
 
I agree. If I'm going to use a Rift with ED in the near future I need a gpu that could render this game, with my ReShade+ME profile, at 70+ FPS. But I do have slight astigmatism and need glasses. Not bad though, but I hope it won't cause issues.
My rig can't handle 3 monitors at ultra, but at medium it's just perfect. And to tell the truth, I'd rather play Elite Dangerous at medium on 3 screens, than play it on ultra on a single monitor.
I also have a X-55 HOTAS. The thing with Elite is that the fun and the immersion scales with the amount of hardware you can use.

I just found out about Oolite and I'm quite curious about it. Perhaps I'll try that. ;)

Well, I see no point playing Oolite anymore as the ED is here - still I'd guess it would make an nice curiosity for you since you haven't tried it yet.

I am planning to go VR with Oculus as well, but my current PC setup is insufficient. I am looking for ways to get there eventually, but at the moment I don't have enough loose "credits" to buy a completely new monster power PC, so I am wondering if upgrading my current setup would be enough. However I fear its not, since I have couple years old mediocre setup.

-v
 
I know you felt it was important you had your say and it's much the same as the other thread, saying similar things (ED looks great but it isn't much better than Elite, but it's been 30 years so it should be). And I'll repeat what I said in that thread.

I couldn't disagree more with the idea that ED has only evolved in visuals and audio, over Elite. It's gigantic, compared. It's online. And it's way more fun.

I can't disagree that it needs more development. It does. But that's no surprise. FD's ambitions are huge. It's going to take time to fulfil them.

All great points, but again, I think you missed the whole point. What I am most definitely not saying is : ED looks great but it isn't much better than Elite, but it's been 30 years so it should be .

What I am saying is after 30 years gaming has evolved where we no longer need to use imagination, where people always want more.
I am saying ED is still true to its roots, yet is has managed to evolve to the point of what we have today, was what we could only imagine in 84. I'm not saying it should be better, why should we fix something that isn't broken?. It is better in every way, it is a masterpiece of a game, and yet it still manages to capture the spirit of Elite, and stays true to the original. definitely no complaints from me. I love it, just as it is, and it is just as I had imagined :)
 
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