Imperial Clipper good in combat?
- Thread starter Symbiont
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If done right it is great at combat. I was in the top 5 CMDRs in the empire bounty hunt community goal up until I had to leave in the last few hours for RL problems.
Manoeuvrability is lower than dedicated combat ships obviously but I like the flexibility and not having to mess around power juggling:
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=603,4zh4zh7OX7OX01Q0Wg0_g0__,319Y9Y7_8S9Y7_6k,7lU7UI15O15O13q13q12G12G
Manoeuvrability is lower than dedicated combat ships obviously but I like the flexibility and not having to mess around power juggling:
http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=603,4zh4zh7OX7OX01Q0Wg0_g0__,319Y9Y7_8S9Y7_6k,7lU7UI15O15O13q13q12G12G
Considering buying a Clipper soon but bearing in mind what someone said about the Python being twice as good, can anyone who has flown the Vulture, followed by the Clipper tell me, does the Clipper make you more money than the Vulture bounty hunting? My aim is to ultimately get a ship that is good all-round: good for a bit of rares, perhaps a bit of large haul if I fancy it and can make as much money bounty hunting as my previous ships, but also that I can hold my own in a pvp fight with (not bothered about winning necessarily, but I'd like to be able to put up a fight). My progression so far has been somewhat based on money. I have gone the bounty hunting (RES, assassinations, signal spots) route more than the rares or large haulage route so far, staring with the cobra and viper, which I found about equal for gaining bounties. I upgraded to the Vulture which (even C class) I found killed NPC ships about one and a half times quicker than the cobra/viper and therefore sent my money earning up too: 8-32 million credits went a lot more smoothly than 0-8 (of course, experience and skill are also factors, even with my terrible aim 
) So next I decided to buy the Dropship, partly because I was curious about whether this ship could be make to work with '0' manoeuvrability, and party because I'd seen videos and reviews that defended it as a good combat ship for PVP. Actually, It's not that bad at finding its target (flight assist 'off) and the single large and four medium hardpoints do mean you can mix and match fixed and gimbled weapons (which I've noticed a few experienced players cite as the key to good pvp), as well as stacking up boosters and chaff due to it's large power plant. It's serious downsides were that although it's a great accompanying ship to have for your wingmen (you can equip it like a 'railgun' Python for instance), to get to where your wingmen need you takes absolutely forever - with it's lousy max jump range of 14 lightyears (thereabouts and that's being economical with weight) you wonder how the Federation ever get their troops to the destination (this also writes off rares trading, and you're better off buying a Type 6 or 7 than using it for large haul). The other downside bounty hunting, is that it just doesn't make as much money bounty hunting as the Vulture. I had noted that over an hours play with two wingmen in Vultures (in WAR ZONES), I was consistently getting about 100,000 less credits than them (Vulture kills slower but boy does it get around fast). A few days back I stored the Dropship and bought another Vulture while deciding my next aim, so hence my question, does the Clipper make as much money bounty hunting as the Vulture? I imagine the Clipper is very exciting to fly (I am so bored of the Vulture but it's an earner) and it does have a useful jump range, but I'm a bit wary of buying it and slowing my earning rate. I.e., maybe it's better to stick with the Vulture (even though I'm starting to suspect it's flawed for PVP: seems to be a trade off of heavy guns or shields/boosters/cells, which if you go for shields will leave you vulnerable to any ship with multiple hardpoints, mixed fix and gimbled and chaff - unless you're a champion of fixed pulse lasers ) and save for a Python rather than losing more money on rebuy and re-sell.
Also, do you need gimbled in all four hardpoints? I'm assuming the two large are on the wing, which would be nice if you could power two large beam I suppose, but can you run fixed weapns in the two middle hardpoints?
Forgive the length, confusion and large bracketed sentences
) So next I decided to buy the Dropship, partly because I was curious about whether this ship could be make to work with '0' manoeuvrability, and party because I'd seen videos and reviews that defended it as a good combat ship for PVP. Actually, It's not that bad at finding its target (flight assist 'off) and the single large and four medium hardpoints do mean you can mix and match fixed and gimbled weapons (which I've noticed a few experienced players cite as the key to good pvp), as well as stacking up boosters and chaff due to it's large power plant. It's serious downsides were that although it's a great accompanying ship to have for your wingmen (you can equip it like a 'railgun' Python for instance), to get to where your wingmen need you takes absolutely forever - with it's lousy max jump range of 14 lightyears (thereabouts and that's being economical with weight) you wonder how the Federation ever get their troops to the destination (this also writes off rares trading, and you're better off buying a Type 6 or 7 than using it for large haul). The other downside bounty hunting, is that it just doesn't make as much money bounty hunting as the Vulture. I had noted that over an hours play with two wingmen in Vultures (in WAR ZONES), I was consistently getting about 100,000 less credits than them (Vulture kills slower but boy does it get around fast). A few days back I stored the Dropship and bought another Vulture while deciding my next aim, so hence my question, does the Clipper make as much money bounty hunting as the Vulture? I imagine the Clipper is very exciting to fly (I am so bored of the Vulture but it's an earner) and it does have a useful jump range, but I'm a bit wary of buying it and slowing my earning rate. I.e., maybe it's better to stick with the Vulture (even though I'm starting to suspect it's flawed for PVP: seems to be a trade off of heavy guns or shields/boosters/cells, which if you go for shields will leave you vulnerable to any ship with multiple hardpoints, mixed fix and gimbled and chaff - unless you're a champion of fixed pulse lasers ) and save for a Python rather than losing more money on rebuy and re-sell.Also, do you need gimbled in all four hardpoints? I'm assuming the two large are on the wing, which would be nice if you could power two large beam I suppose, but can you run fixed weapns in the two middle hardpoints?
Forgive the length, confusion and large bracketed sentences
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Considering buying a Clipper soon but bearing in mind what someone said about the Python being twice as good, can anyone who has flown the Vulture, followed by the Clipper tell me, does the Clipper make you more money than the Vulture bounty hunting? My aim is to ultimately get a ship that is good all-round: good for a bit of rares, perhaps a bit of large haul if I fancy it and can make as much money bounty hunting as my previous ships, but also that I can hold my own in a pvp fight with (not bothered about winning necessarily, but I'd like to be able to put up a fight). My progression so far has been somewhat based on money. I have gone the bounty hunting (RES, assassinations, signal spots) route more than the rares or large haulage route so far, staring with the cobra and viper, which I found about equal for gaining bounties. I upgraded to the Vulture which (even C class) I found killed NPC ships about one and a half times quicker than the cobra/viper and therefore sent my money earning up too: 8-32 million credits went a lot more smoothly than 0-8 (of course, experience and skill are also factors, even with my terrible aim
Also, do you need gimbled in all four hardpoints? I'm assuming the two large are on the wing, which would be nice if you could power two large beam I suppose, but can you run fixed weapns in the two middle hardpoints?
Forgive the length, confusion and large bracketed sentences
Hi, Im biased and would say Clipper.
You can deff make as much money in the Clipper as in the vulture. Better powerplant and internal module space means more shield cell banks or hull packages to keep you in the fight area longer without having to run for repairs.
Clipper is cheaper price and cheaper upgrades than Python ~110mil vs +200mil. BUT yes, you will need gimbal on all weapons unless your just facing off against big ships. I use 2X large beams with 2X medium cannons. Great for BH, not so good for PVP.
Its ok for armoured trading (As big as T7) but expensive to repair, would not advise rares trading since ASP or T6 will give much bigger jump ranges.
Overall I'd say its a good step between Vulture and Python but you will miss the manoeuvrability since the Clipper turns slow. Also no outposts but that will make it better when you get them back in Python.
Edit: Maybe keep the Vulture and buy Clipper outright, gives you a ship to fall back on if you need it, especially since you're earning good money now.
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Thank you very much for this! Sounds great and I might not miss manoeuvrability as have been flying the Dropship the past few weeks (please forgive the double nature of my allegiance there, haven't quite decided on how my character feels about galactic politics just yet
) but I will take your advice, earn an extra few million first and keep the Vulture. Regarding PVP, I think I'm just going to have to find out the hard way what works with that. Most of my PVP was when I first got the game, usually in warzones in Vipers or Cobras with players that usually ended up on my friendlist afterwards, however, I do watch a lot of videos and read threads on the latest opinions to try to stay up to date for when I get more involved. One commander suggested that most PVP enthusiasts are favouring booster stacking rather than chaff stacking at the moment which brings gimbled guns more back into contention, but as somebody who is far more in the habit of using gimbled guns (I do fit fixed now and then to practise, occasionally with drastic results) my intuition tells me that chaff is my biggest enemy (even with de-targeting). Mind you, at the risk of bothering you with a further question, is it worth using turrets in the large hardpoints on the clipper, to get around chaff? (I'm picturing the enthusiastic Viper pilot who wants to take on a bigger ship and uses fixed weapons and chaff) Forgive me if I'm lending far too much credence to the power of chaff stacking to escape gimbled fire
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Thank you very much for this! Sounds great and I might not miss manoeuvrability as have been flying the Dropship the past few weeks (please forgive the double nature of my allegiance there, haven't quite decided on how my character feels about galactic politics just yet
Yeah no worries, I was Imperial but got put off by some of the crazy and stupid forum posts, may go Alliance after powerplay. Nothing puts you off like knowing you share allegiance with a bunch of fools
Chaff is a major problem when I'm fighting things like Elite NPC Vipers. I usually just blast them with everything I have as soon as the chaff runs out and use the time to restock capacitors. Most of the time I don't encounter chaff though, maybe keep one ship for NPC hunting and one for PVP if its a problem for you.
Erm, I've never tried turrets properly if i'm honest but NPC clippers seem to get good results. I thought they were still affected by chaff though?
Thinking about it my biggest irritation has been jump range once I put an B7/A7 shield cell bank in there when doing community goals.
Oh and no worries on the questions, ask away
I just moved from the Clipper to the Python the other day. There are many positives for the move, however, I'm giving it one week before I sell the Python and go back to the Clipper. If flying an excel spreadsheet is what you want to do, and look good on paper, then the Python is the ship. If however, you favor other things, then the Clipper is better.
So far, I'm torn. But, I run 272T in the Python and I ran 228T in the Clipper in trading... that is a lot of trades to account for the 22 M vs 47M buy in! ( I only made the switch because of the discount). As for BH'ng, the Python has an addition slot, which makes kills faster...But, it is a slug to move around....
I'm on day 2, and so far I miss my clipper... the landing at outposts is over rated....
The biggest PRO for me on the Python is the 32T fuel tank.... I can go twice as far without refueling.....
So far, I'm torn. But, I run 272T in the Python and I ran 228T in the Clipper in trading... that is a lot of trades to account for the 22 M vs 47M buy in! ( I only made the switch because of the discount). As for BH'ng, the Python has an addition slot, which makes kills faster...But, it is a slug to move around....
I'm on day 2, and so far I miss my clipper... the landing at outposts is over rated....
The biggest PRO for me on the Python is the 32T fuel tank.... I can go twice as far without refueling.....
If we ever get passengers, which ship do you think people would prefer to fly in and which ship would be able to charge a premium?
I'd hope it would scale depending on the type:
High ranking officials: Orca, Clipper, Fer De Lance
Military personnel: Dropship, Anaconda, Python
Wanted people: Cobra, ASP, sidewinder
Poor folk/cheap fares: Transporters
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My two cent to Cmdr Derrida:
In my opinion the Clipper is as good for fighting in PVE as the Vulture, if not better. I have been doing resource extraction sites and warzones excessively in both ships recently, and I feel more comfortable and quicker in the Clipper. It has more firepower, more energy to fire the big guns and tons of power to run good defense (shields are weaker than the Vulture, but with some boosters and cells they are strong enough for PVE). I have not looked at the clock, but it *feels* I can kill things faster in the Clipper. Besides that, I find the Clipper so much more fun to fly than the Vulture, I find the Vulture somewhat boring after a while. But that's personal taste, of course, other Commanders experience may and probably will be different.
I like the Clipper because it can do a lot of things fairly well, so you cannot really compare it to a single-role ship like the Vulture. The Vulture gives you almost the same combat power for much less money, as does the Viper compared to the Cobra.
The comparison Clipper vs Python is a bit wired. Sure the Python is better, but a combat Python is more than double as costly than a combat Clipper (Note: I don't have a Python yet). So stating the Python is better than a Clipper is certainly true, but it's like saying a Cobra is better than an Adder.
For PVP I have no idea, not my cup of tea. I suppose the Clipper has some serious problems in PVP because of its size (easy to hit with fixed weapons), mediocre shields and requirement to use gimballed weapons. So if you plan to do serious PVP, it may be better to stay in the Vulture or look at the Fer-de-lance instead. In my very few player-vs-player encounters I was in a Viper and Vulture. On the other hand, the Clipper can just decide to leave a battle, which is a big plus. However, for PVE combat the Clipper is in my eyes as good as the Vulture if not better.
Anyways, I am in love with the Clipper. I was contemplating to strip it to get the cash for a discounted Python in Zaoance, but I currently just cannot part with the Clipper, it's such a damn fine ship.
In my opinion the Clipper is as good for fighting in PVE as the Vulture, if not better. I have been doing resource extraction sites and warzones excessively in both ships recently, and I feel more comfortable and quicker in the Clipper. It has more firepower, more energy to fire the big guns and tons of power to run good defense (shields are weaker than the Vulture, but with some boosters and cells they are strong enough for PVE). I have not looked at the clock, but it *feels* I can kill things faster in the Clipper. Besides that, I find the Clipper so much more fun to fly than the Vulture, I find the Vulture somewhat boring after a while. But that's personal taste, of course, other Commanders experience may and probably will be different.
I like the Clipper because it can do a lot of things fairly well, so you cannot really compare it to a single-role ship like the Vulture. The Vulture gives you almost the same combat power for much less money, as does the Viper compared to the Cobra.
The comparison Clipper vs Python is a bit wired. Sure the Python is better, but a combat Python is more than double as costly than a combat Clipper (Note: I don't have a Python yet). So stating the Python is better than a Clipper is certainly true, but it's like saying a Cobra is better than an Adder.
For PVP I have no idea, not my cup of tea. I suppose the Clipper has some serious problems in PVP because of its size (easy to hit with fixed weapons), mediocre shields and requirement to use gimballed weapons. So if you plan to do serious PVP, it may be better to stay in the Vulture or look at the Fer-de-lance instead. In my very few player-vs-player encounters I was in a Viper and Vulture. On the other hand, the Clipper can just decide to leave a battle, which is a big plus. However, for PVE combat the Clipper is in my eyes as good as the Vulture if not better.
Anyways, I am in love with the Clipper. I was contemplating to strip it to get the cash for a discounted Python in Zaoance, but I currently just cannot part with the Clipper, it's such a damn fine ship.
Yeah no worries, I was Imperial but got put off by some of the crazy and stupid forum posts, may go Alliance after powerplay. Nothing puts you off like knowing you share allegiance with a bunch of fools
Chaff is a major problem when I'm fighting things like Elite NPC Vipers. I usually just blast them with everything I have as soon as the chaff runs out and use the time to restock capacitors. Most of the time I don't encounter chaff though, maybe keep one ship for NPC hunting and one for PVP if its a problem for you.
Erm, I've never tried turrets properly if i'm honest but NPC clippers seem to get good results. I thought they were still affected by chaff though?
Thinking about it my biggest irritation has been jump range once I put an B7/A7 shield cell bank in there when doing community goals.
Oh and no worries on the questions, ask away
I may be wrong but I'm fairly sure turrets are unaffected by chaff. Personally I've not tried turrets much either as I assumed they might not fire as vigorously as having all my guns in my control but a friend who uses them a fair bit told me they don't hold back. Missile racks are also unaffected, I think, and although pretty useless against shields, I put four of them on my Dropship for a laugh with a fixed beam in the central large hardpoint and they are devastating when shields are down. Expensive though and I wouldn't recommend that setup unless you're after a specific target (who hopefully thinks missiles are awful and doesn't have an ecm).
Cheers for the feedback (and other comments above), definitely going to try the clipper! Hope I didn't put myself across as some sort of PVP obsessed psychopath. I'm interested in all aspects of the game (played it back in the 80's) and my PVP interest is more for self defence and community goals than for the sake of it. For instance, I feel reasonably confident flying around in my vulture, but when I first bought my dropship, I really wasn't sure if it was any good at all and there was always the fear some cheeky Eagle might interdict and shoot up my fat 'dopship' ass
I've had Cobra, Asp, Clipper and now Python (just one day!) I loved the Asp with its huge jump range. Fullly A rated it packed a mean punch too. The Clipper is far and away the prettiest and with C3 beams and multicannons was no slouch. |The only drawback and the reason I changed was the inability to progress ranks easily. Being restricted to large landing pads was a pain but I never lost her in combat (boosted inside a station and lost 1m cargo and 2m ins but that was the result of playing at 12am on a Sat night after drinking Stella!. Don't drink & drink (fly) kids) If I could have landed at outports I would have kept her but hey ho, lets see how good the old Python is.
PVP Psychopath was not my impression. In that case you would have asked for the Clippers ramming capabilities against Sidewinders, no?
For self-defense, you put the throttle to max and hit boost a few times and wave goodbye to anything except another Clipper, Cobra and Fer-De-Lance. In fact, I had a PVP encounter with a Fer-De-Lance in my Clipper (totally forgot about that), where I had to run and just barely escaped. But that's fine, the Lance is a pure combat vessel and should be able to win against a multi-role ship like the Clipper (and it's pilot was just better than me).
Actually, for Open play, I feel pretty secure in my Clipper because of the speed. First ship where I did not feel the urge to switch to Private Group with 200 tons of Gold inside the hold. I'm afraid some day that feeling will be my doom.
Anyone here who could elaborate how the Clipper compares to the Lance in combat? I understand the shield is a main argument. But what about maneuvering, pitch-rate and weapon loadout? How does that somewhat wired Lance weapon setup compare to the Clipper in real experience?
PVP Psychopath was not my impression. In that case you would have asked for the Clippers ramming capabilities against Sidewinders, no?
For self-defense, you put the throttle to max and hit boost a few times and wave goodbye to anything except another Clipper, Cobra and Fer-De-Lance. In fact, I had a PVP encounter with a Fer-De-Lance in my Clipper (totally forgot about that), where I had to run and just barely escaped. But that's fine, the Lance is a pure combat vessel and should be able to win against a multi-role ship like the Clipper (and it's pilot was just better than me).
Actually, for Open play, I feel pretty secure in my Clipper because of the speed. First ship where I did not feel the urge to switch to Private Group with 200 tons of Gold inside the hold. I'm afraid some day that feeling will be my doom.
Anyone here who could elaborate how the Clipper compares to the Lance in combat? I understand the shield is a main argument. But what about maneuvering, pitch-rate and weapon loadout? How does that somewhat wired Lance weapon setup compare to the Clipper in real experience?
Ha ha ha...so what are the Clippers ramming capabilities against a Sidewinder? JOKE! Although having said that, I came up with this hairbrained idea last night. After all the recent publicity about griefers and random killing, my friend and I decided we would interdict a brand new player in a Hauler or Sidewinder and do some reverse piracy (like the Mugger in Red Dwarf who forces his money on people if anyone saw that), by giving him some rares (which I'd carried 200 LY and can contribute substantially towards a new players first decent ship). So we found a Sidewinder and I managed (for once) to interdict him:
Me: "We're being friendly pirates - we want you to take our rares!"
Sidewinder: "WHAT?...what's Rares"
Me: "They're like, these really valuable goods"
The Sidewinder looks confused (as confused as an Elite space ship can look anyway) and kinda like he's gonna kick my Clipper's ass (or give it a damned good go) and at this point, my friend who has also turned up in his vulture and is the nicest guy you'll ever meet (He spent a week doing 'free the slave' missions after he accidently lost his slave cargo in said mission once and then destroyed two of them trying to pick the cargo back up), accidently flies into the poor guy and the sidewinder flies off. Fortunately he was fine and I sent him a friend request to explain but he probably thought he'd run into a bunch of griefers on Holiday from George Lucas station.
On the subject of the Clipper, I was going to hold onto my Vulture (to keep a nice expendable ship for quick strikes against the faction who shot up my friend
Yep, getting a bit carried away by the game ) and have the two ships but I have been completely seduced. Even though I was quick to jump from the Cobra to the Vulture, I knew that the Vulture lacked some of the grace of the Cobra and that's what the Clipper has over all the ships I've tried so far (With a ship and loadout worth about 45 Million), grace and speed and power - I love the way you can do a strafing run past another ship at high speed and then pull a turn (flight assist off) and see the pattern of flight in the afterburn. And not just an adequate jump range but a good one! And as for the cockpit...don't even let me go there - I could easily imagine myself crushing worlds in my quest to find the Underverse (for those Riddick fans out there), but I'm sure the treckies could probably envision this cockpit setup in their world too.I won't go into any more technical difficulties right now - as I'd love to hear more of the rest of your observations and stories of the Clipper, but one small thing that made me quite happy, was that the two gimbled beams seem to work (I only stuck them in last night) together well in the large hardpoints, whereas in the Vulture this had been sadly disappointing for power reasons. The Vulture though, is to me still a ship that is either a big guy with a small weapon, or a little guy with a big weapon! - Up the shields and have pulse, or down the shields and use something bigger, but no effective in between.
PS Regarding PVP, and feeling insecure with 200 tonnes of gold (GOOOOLD!!!
), another Clipper pilot who I was hanging out with in Empire Space (my god it's empty there - no wonder the empire keep losing the community goal wars) warned me (when I was doing the rank prog missions) not to be too hasty to engage in PVP as until you get good shields, a cobra or asp might take you out. What do you Clipper pros think of this? First thing I did was put in a C7 (for combat testing in a quiet warzone) rather than a size 6 as I assumed the larger, even with the lower class, would be stronger, but is this the case?PPS Also, I think even with this medium setup, and although I felt a little fragile at first, I'd kick my own ass if I was playing against myself in a Vulture
- not a criticism of the Vulture, but just saying I feel safer than I was expecting after the warning the other Clipper pilot had given me.
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Very slightly... like 1-2% stronger than a 6A. It is considerably cheaper, though, but a lot heavier.
PPS Also, I think even with this medium setup, and although I felt a little fragile at first, I'd kick my own ass if I was playing against myself in a Vulture
A well kitted out Clipper is expensive, but once it is done, it is wise, not to underestimate it. Since you are mentioning the Vulture... the Clipper IMHO is the ultimate Vulture-Killer. I have destroyed dozens of Vulture Commanders who dared to fight it out, so the best advice I can give you, as long as you are in your Vulture: When you are facing a CMDR in a Clipper: Run!
In a PvP situation with 2 equally skilled pilots i think the vulture would have the upper hand, but the clipper would be able to flee. It could be very close though.
Pro clipper:
Faster, more fire power
Contra clipper:
weaker shields, need gimballed (can be countered in PvP), although the clipper is manouverable, the vulture is better here, much bigger target.
While RES hunting the clipper should be killing even faster than the vulture though.
Pro clipper:
Faster, more fire power
Contra clipper:
weaker shields, need gimballed (can be countered in PvP), although the clipper is manouverable, the vulture is better here, much bigger target.
While RES hunting the clipper should be killing even faster than the vulture though.