That " imagination" argument is getting really old right now.
Elite boring?
- Thread starter Zed 666
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Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
I can imagine.....
Now this is just deteriorating into silly semantics now!
Edit; just realised a flaw in my thinking, the view from the top is the changing perspective of the sky box! is that what people explore to see?
That is actually a very nice sight. I do like the sky changes.
cpy
Banned
OH man salvage and capture ships (NPC) would be awesome, PC could be salvagable only but, i bet this will come when we'll get landing and walking around. ED will be <snip> awesome, i tell you, we just need to wait and not try to play too much until this game is really something.
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54 pages of people talking about a game being boring. Hmmm...
I thought I was bored after I figured out the game's mechanics too, but then I realized the nuances and subtleties matter in this game. Despite the simple facade of trade/explore/fight, there are some very complex mechanics at work under the hood. What we have then is not a finished game but a very wide and solid foundation for a staggeringly deep game. I think that is what people sense and it leaves them with a feeling that something is missing. To fill a space this vast, you would need a PG algorithm complex enough to boggle the human mind's attempts to easily classify, but not so complex that it defied all attempts at logic or resulted in ridiculous juxtapositions. That kind of algorithm can't be created or implemented overnight. It has to be built one brick at a time.
I thought I was bored after I figured out the game's mechanics too, but then I realized the nuances and subtleties matter in this game. Despite the simple facade of trade/explore/fight, there are some very complex mechanics at work under the hood. What we have then is not a finished game but a very wide and solid foundation for a staggeringly deep game. I think that is what people sense and it leaves them with a feeling that something is missing. To fill a space this vast, you would need a PG algorithm complex enough to boggle the human mind's attempts to easily classify, but not so complex that it defied all attempts at logic or resulted in ridiculous juxtapositions. That kind of algorithm can't be created or implemented overnight. It has to be built one brick at a time.
Well, then dont sell this game like a full price finished game...
Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
He isn't
I get really surprised by the number of souls who say this game is boring and that progression is just more credits to buy bigger things to earn more credits etc. Now my experience of gaming is limited but where is this any different from (for example) GTA IV or Half Life? Sure you get missions in the former but both end up following a set path towards the games ending - The beauty of ED is that there is no real ending (perhaps that's what people mean by boring and the journey is what you make it. I have no great desire at this stage to grind out credits and am just enjoying all the facets of the game (less mining). I have not yet progressed beyond an Asp but have also purchased a pimped up Viper to experience BH. TBH I think the Asp is better suited for me.
I hope you're right. My fear is people will simply end up doing exactly what they are now, simply with an added Powerplay graph showing how much their fellow CMDRs are grinding too! eg: A Bounty Hunter "working" a RES location killing the never ending procession of mindless NPCs turning up their simply to commit suicide, will continue doing just that (if the Power requires it). And there will be no bigger/broader/more engaging gameplay in itself actually added.
I've been advocating this issue form before release. See my sig for example ("Exploration Enhancements").
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I would say that the one thing that possibly annoys me the most is that the game doesn't let me run multiple saves. I like switching between careers, and in particular I really enjoy exploring. For me exploring makes the most use of what ED is really good at - a well modelled galaxy that is really really pretty to look at. The problem with exploring is that it takes a day or two to get anywhere interesting and then it takes another day or two to get back. I'd like to be able to switch saves, go and blasts some pirates with my clipper, help out some CG, then switch back and go and look at the marvellous things they put in the galaxy again 
Without having to spend a week travelling back and forth.
Without having to spend a week travelling back and forth.
I'm a player from the old days too. Well, I had some time in on the BBC version, but played most on the Archimedes Elite remake. I've been playing this new reboot version since the Steam launch a few weeks ago. Currently have about 500 hours in.
My major problems with the game are not with the content so far. I find most of it pretty much what I expected or better, and I find confidence in Frontier Developments that more will keep being added as time goes on.
My issues with the game are mostly around it's gameplay mechanics and the balancing:
- The crime system is too simplistic and the laws/rules too contrived, being black and white in most cases with this Wanted/Clean system and no grey areas. It has a jarring effect on immersion and makes involved sessions an exercise in frustration.
- The galaxy map is a crucial tool in planning and analysing your gameplay, yet seems unfinished and neglected. It lacks critical functionality to allow you to track and record your progress and create flight plans.
- Supercruise, or Supersnooze, as myself and some friends now call it, is great for local exploration of minor points of interest, but a serious timewaster for ferry trips to large system bodies, such as for trading. It could be easily fixed by a mini-hyperjump facility between massive bodies like planets, moons and asteroids.
- The ship upgrade system lacks character with just its Class and Grade definitions, rather than manufacturers, are ridiculously priced artificially for grinding purposes rather than realistic reflection of capability. Ship slots are illogical in places, such as internal compartments being used for onboard system and utility items.
- Various systems don't reflect culture by having space stations of a particular design fitting a particular faction, but instead are all generic to everyone. For example, I might have expected that Coriolis type might belong to the Feds, the Orbis to the Empire... etc. More noticeable is that once inside, they are literally all the same barring the odd one having some minor decorative difference in theme. There needed to be more unique stations, each with their own artstyle and aesthetic to fill out culture and identities of the different parties. This would have made different regions immediately identifiable to the player flying into them.
- Similar problem exists with the ships in the game: everybody uses all the various types in the game, including some specific cultural designs like the Imperial ones. It would have been better if, like the stations, there was separation between the ship 'artstyles' you come across to be reflective of who's space you're in; and if necessary, many which were not yet player flyable (saving Frontier a lot of work in creating them). So when you're in Empire space, you see Clippers, the forthcoming Courier, but also many other smaller ones, like fighters that are used by the local authorities and inhabitants. Similarly, when you are in Fed space, you see it dominated by the classic polygonal designs of Vipers and Cobras, etc. This would have given the varous places of this universe instant recognition, colour and character, where right not, it all just looks the same barring the names on the stations and a few variations in voice overs.
I could continue, but hopefully you're seeing a pattern here; that the devil is in the details with this game. The sandbox must have the power to reflect my impressions and imagination in order for the illusion to be feel real. Powerplay sounds like a wonderful idea, but it won't be something I can see, feel and touch, if the universes characters all share the same set of tools.
I see where you're coming from, but I'd start with the bigger aspects as I listed above (regional stations and ships) and then move to the smaller things like animated people in the structures. Those things for me are easier to fill out myself with imagination if the environment supports the over all feel of a specific culture.
There was this one station I visited some time ago while on a long trade exploration. I was shocked to see it as it was the first time I'd seen one with a different interior than the usual ones. Here's a screenshot I took: it had a desert oasis theme, and even though structurally it was identical to the rest, it made a refreshing difference to just have a new palette and details, so much so that I was sad to leave it!
And that's the key. Emotions. Other sandbox games I played and loved, have had variations in the environment and details to the point where, when you discover them, some you like, some you don't; others you love, there are those you hate. It attaches you to the world.
Elite: Dangerous is currently lacking this.
When I started my journy with my Sidewinder, learning the game, salvage was my first career to build myself up. I found a niche in wondering around WSS points and grabbing abandoned flotsam, canisters of anything and everything, some near worthless, others valuable beyond my wildest ideas of profit. I loved that short but eventful and satisfying career. However, one aspect of it spoiled it, but was something I had to learn to ignore with a roll of the eyes: "illicit cargo"/"illegal salvage"
As I alluded to in my above list, the game is full of dumb design ideas for the infraction and penalty system that seriously detracts from immersion. The good news is, that a lot of these are easily fixed, but the sad part is, I'm not seeing any progress here in these latest updates.
The takeaway message here is not that the game is boring, at least not for me. It is that add all the content you want, but if you are adding it to an irritating and frustrating set of base mechaincs, it won't be as rewarding as it should be.
This isn't 1984. What was effective and acceptable back then, due to limitations of hardware and innovation, won't be enough now. There needs to be more sophistication and nuance in the design for modern times if this product is to fulfill its promise.
Definitely. The 2nd runner up would be wizard wars.
You wouldn't be posting here if you didn't care about ED. So quite frankly, I don't believe you.
I don't think it's boring- it does definitely not match its scale with complexity which is a shortfall for many people (myself included). from what ive seen tho, they are committed to actively developing it further.
I agree with you. Salvaging wasn't in the 1984 Elite, or Elite Plus or FE2 or FFE, so where am I getting salvaging from? Two places really, Egosofts X series, namely X3 Terran Conflict and Frontier's own DDF proposal.
And salvaging was just one thing ... there are more.
EDIT: Oh and this is worth the £200 I backed it for, even if I think it could do better.
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Don't you have a Python to paint pink somewhere else?
Do you think these semi-covered personal offences will turn people back saying "Hell, thank you, now I know how to enjoy what I couldn't a moment ago".
Believe me, there's a reason why lots of people are missing something from the GAME.
I know it's the happy people's reflex to fix those PEOPLE who are not happy through several judgemental techniques about the PEOPLE who expressed their observations about the GAME.
It's very kind and I do appreciate it but actually it doesn't help.
What the unsatisfied people want from the game would make it richer and those already happy about it could also benefit from it. Optionally of course. BUt what's most important: more people would join the happy crowd.
I would say that the reason the game feels lifeless would be because they made inhabited space too big, you can trade for days without seeing a single player, which just doesn't seem right. Player interaction makes the game feel alive.
Does Anyone have a number for the systems with stations? I bet there are enough for us all to have our own personal station if not system (not that I'm suggesting that of course)
Don't get me wrong, I have put more hours that I would dare to try to count into this game, so I far from consider it to be a waste of money. Though I didn't stick around for any significant content, but more the experience. I would even say that I would have stopped playing far earlier if I had not bought an EDTracker to enhance the experience.
I haven't played in around a month now and I really hope they will add the tools we need to make our own emergent content. Refueling is a step in the right direction, but we still lack the tools to make it into a proper career in game and so it won't make me start playing again for power play.
Does Anyone have a number for the systems with stations? I bet there are enough for us all to have our own personal station if not system (not that I'm suggesting that of course)
Don't get me wrong, I have put more hours that I would dare to try to count into this game, so I far from consider it to be a waste of money. Though I didn't stick around for any significant content, but more the experience. I would even say that I would have stopped playing far earlier if I had not bought an EDTracker to enhance the experience.
I haven't played in around a month now and I really hope they will add the tools we need to make our own emergent content. Refueling is a step in the right direction, but we still lack the tools to make it into a proper career in game and so it won't make me start playing again for power play.
For me its not the best or the worst money spent on my life, its money and Im kinda happy with the game overall. My problem is that this game have a HUGE potential, but right now its far from complete, its a beta, a pretty beta.
I will never forget my frustration last night with the traders assassination mission, or also, exploring last week just to find a insane amount of brown dwarfs filled with boring icy planets with the exact terrain texture, one after the another, all that after wasting my time watching countdowns aka "supercruise".
I can watch countdowns, I can grind, but the reward should be equal to the effort. And Im not talking about a credit kind of reward, Im talking about content and interesting game mechanics, npc AI and lore.
I will never forget my frustration last night with the traders assassination mission, or also, exploring last week just to find a insane amount of brown dwarfs filled with boring icy planets with the exact terrain texture, one after the another, all that after wasting my time watching countdowns aka "supercruise".
I can watch countdowns, I can grind, but the reward should be equal to the effort. And Im not talking about a credit kind of reward, Im talking about content and interesting game mechanics, npc AI and lore.
I'm still reserving judgement.
The only thing i already know for sure is, it's neither of the two for me.
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