Too dangerous

[Inaksa]

The solution I think may work is that once a clean ship is attacked, a countdown starts if the ship is not destroyed within X number of seconds, a lot of security forces should show up and attack the agressor.
If it is a wing attacking, then all members of said wing should be chased by security.
A couple of weeks with this system and griefers will start to think twice bothering other players.

Most traders have gone solo or private, why would they want to expose their ships and cargo to others, the trader hass all risk and the pirates nothing. What's the point? Where's the fun in that?

 

[ste]

The solution I think may work is that once a clean ship is attacked, a countdown starts if the ship is not destroyed within X number of seconds, a lot of security forces should show up and attack the agressor.
If it is a wing attacking, then all members of said wing should be chased by security.
A couple of weeks with this system and griefers will start to think twice bothering other players.

Most traders have gone solo or private, why would they want to expose their ships and cargo to others, the trader hass all risk and the pirates nothing. What's the point? Where's the fun in that?

The fun is the threat the danger the risk, wheres the fun in sitting in solo grinding to your hearts content safe in the knowledge you are always going to get where you want to go and nothing is going to stop you.

This is the equivalent of playing Fifa football and removing the opposition so you can score everytime. Some people might find it fun to score 110 nil, a real gamer would find it dull. The harder the losses the sweeter the victory.

Thats lost today with PC owners brought up on fail proof games, its Win, Win or in the Bin.



Going solo just to grind in peace? I certainly wouldnt want to admit it if I did. Then what after? youve gone solo to grind in peace to get that fully kitted out ship youve wanted so much, and I wonder how many return to open to test it out on some real life players safe in the knowledge you got loads of grind in the bank to cover any losses and you can quickly hop to solo to grind some more if need be.

Its sad state of affairs gaming in 2015.

 

[Surly_Badger]

The point of the military is that it doesn't operate on home soil. That's what the police is for.

That only applies in relatively civilized societies, where the government maintains an effective monopoly on violence. In the future of ED, there is no monopoly on violence at all; the government would have to maintain its monopoly only on hyper-violence. You'll notice that governments (except those that we'd call "failed states") survive only by having a capability for violence above and beyond what the population has; usually that equates to restricted military-only or police-only weapons. Realistically, I'd expect sector police to have small capital ships that could one-shot an Anaconda.

It's a game, though. Economies would not survive in a future where there was so much unpredictable loss and governments would not survive being unable to establish authority -- that's OK in a game. File it under "unrealistic because game-play"

 

[Jukelo]

I like how you summarized it

I guess it will be my plan for the time being... But I hope Frontier will eventually find ways to bring me (and maybe some others) back online

Unfortunately they wont do that. Giving incentives for traders to play in open would make the poor solo traders feel like they're worth less (for good reasons, solo traders are worth less). I'd love for open trade to be buffed or solo/group trade to be nerfed, but the carebears would throw a hissy fit.

 

[Loskene]

That only applies in relatively civilized societies, where the government maintains an effective monopoly on violence. In the future of ED, there is no monopoly on violence at all; the government would have to maintain its monopoly only on hyper-violence. You'll notice that governments (except those that we'd call "failed states") survive only by having a capability for violence above and beyond what the population has; usually that equates to restricted military-only or police-only weapons. Realistically, I'd expect sector police to have small capital ships that could one-shot an Anaconda.

It's a game, though. Economies would not survive in a future where there was so much unpredictable loss and governments would not survive being unable to establish authority -- that's OK in a game. File it under "unrealistic because game-play"

Well the only distinction between military and police in ED is purely name only, they all have exactly the same equipment and resources (read: whatever everyone else has plus infinite respawns), so I guess you could achieve the same effect as martial law just by adding more cops. The distinction only seems to be useful for drawing the line at how much force the government can exercise on its people at once, as police generally operate in smaller numbers than military.

 

[hanks01]

Anyway, I run around the Wolf 406 CG. Man those instances were packed with angry FDLs and Vultures. You must be certified crazy to fly there in a trader tincan in open.

I don't tend to trade but use a Type 7 for CGs. Got pirated by Code, they were really polite then a group of bounty hunters jumped in and even the Code guys said I'd be best off running. Had a great chat and left. I winged up with a friendly Viper at the station and we went back and forth, got interdicted a couple of times, first by a Fed Drop ship, again polite, second time by a Cobra by my wingman came in and attacked him.

Was tons of fun. OP is free to make his choice and one Commander's pleasure is another's poision but I'm having a great time.

Still not sure how a Clipper can get killed when it's running unless it's unshielded or has extremely weak shields.

 

[Gutfright]

I agree with OP. I have twice met another CMDR whilst playing open and was killed twice. Why bother?

 

[Riktar]

The fun is the threat the danger the risk, wheres the fun in sitting in solo grinding to your hearts content safe in the knowledge you are always going to get where you want to go and nothing is going to stop you.

So you would be all for security forces that show up to lay a whoopin' on an attacking ship, right? I mean where is the fun in interdicting a lower class ship that has no chance to defend itself or run?

This is the equivalent of playing Fifa football and removing the opposition so you can score everytime. Some people might find it fun to score 110 nil, a real gamer would find it dull. The harder the losses the sweeter the victory.

Agreed. Sorta like having the risk of getting your Asp's handed to you if your not quick (or competent) enough to complete your crime. Because, as you said, where is the fun or challenge of a task if their is no risk, right?

Thats lost today with PC owners brought up on fail proof games, its Win, Win or in the Bin.

That statement can go both ways in regards to the player being attacked as well as the attacker.

Going solo just to grind in peace? I certainly wouldnt want to admit it if I did. Then what after? youve gone solo to grind in peace to get that fully kitted out ship youve wanted so much, and I wonder how many return to open to test it out on some real life players safe in the knowledge you got loads of grind in the bank to cover any losses and you can quickly hop to solo to grind some more if need be.

Its sad state of affairs gaming in 2015.

What's equally sad is the inability for some to see the reflection of themselves in their statements/arguments,,,,,,,,

 

[Globusdiablo]

...I'll just hit "Solo" the next time I play...

Or try a group?

Here's a riddle for you: Which excellent PvE group with more than eighty five hundred commanders starts with M and ends with obius?

Check the groups sub forum.

Fly safe

 

[Pendra]

Yesterday in 406 I witnessed something awesome.
I attacked a T9 and he got away at ~10%. I ran out of rails . Anyway on the next round he came back with a CMDR Cobra escort!!! For real! I had to give up the killing arund 60% because my shield was going down rapidly. Then a Vulture arrived and continued the killing. The Cobra started to attack the Vulture and he managed to distract him long enough so T9 jumped out.

The Vulture then turned on the Cobra and promptly killed him. Heroism doesn't pay well I guess. But it was still fun to watch from the first row.

 

[GJ51]

This is one of the reasons I think bounties need to be added onto the insurance costs of people who murder others.

Exactly right! Even Bernie Madoff had all his assets seized once he was caught. Crime isn't supposed to pay once you've been caught. If accumulated bounties were added to the rebuy, and the bounty was based on the loss incurred by the victim, there might be some sensible balance.

So far FD has had a deaf ear on the subject.

If I risk losing 12 Mil on a trade run, the risk to the perp who tries to kill me should at least be as much.

 

[ste]

I'm not sure if you had a point, agreeing with me, or disagreeing.

So you would be all for security forces that show up to lay a whoopin' on an attacking ship, right? I mean where is the fun in interdicting a lower class ship that has no chance to defend itself or run?

Yes.

Agreed. Sorta like having the risk of getting your Asp's handed to you if your not quick (or competent) enough to complete your crime. Because, as you said, where is the fun or challenge of a task if their is no risk, right?

?? So you do agree?

That statement can go both ways in regards to the player being attacked as well as the attacker.

I agree. Nowhere did I suggest it couldnt.

What's equally sad is the inability for some to see the reflection of themselves in their statements/arguments,,,,,,,,

This makes no sense. I'm not crying about being killed, or are you like almost everyone else that I try to argue that safe isnt more fun assuming I must be a pirate because it far too shocking this day and age to expect a trader to want trading not win, win.

 

[Pendra]

People keep bringing this "increase bounty for PK" thing up, like it was a magic bullet.

Just from the top of my head
1. Bounty exploit.
2. Money transfer through bounty.
3. Money sink (for you)
4. Life is dangerously cheap in ED.

Finally, if you don't die because you are good, then receiving infinite bounty for a frag will not make even the slight difference. You would still go out and frag players.

 

[FuelX]

One word from me ''FuelX''.......MOBIUS Just go the the private groups, click on Mobius...

Thanks Rich and Globusdiablo. I didn't know there are large private communities. I should give it a try

 

[Darrett]

People keep bringing this "increase bounty for PK" thing up, like it was a magic bullet.

Just from the top of my head
1. Bounty exploit.
2. Money transfer through bounty.
3. Money sink (for you)
4. Life is dangerously cheap in ED.

Finally, if you don't die because you are good, then receiving infinite bounty for a frag will not make even the slight difference. You would still go out and frag players.

And that's when you implement things like permanent KoS in systems. Sure, you can be "good enough" (more likely, hacking) to avoid being killed by people wanting to cash in on a $50,000,000 bounty, but at some point local systems would send odds that you can't overcome to take care of the problem.

It's all about ramping up punishment to the point you either get swarmed by System Authority, stay in Anarchy systems only, or get killed by a player and end up back in a sidewinder.

 

[Defector]

Theres not much risk at being a trader either. How many times you all been killed by a pirate, less than 5? People just dont like anything that may interrupt the grind per hour.

Oh, I certainly don't mind pirates or even murderers. In fact, I enjoy them. But not everyone shares my view. And, at a certain point, all you'll have is people flying around looking for traders to kill, and there will be no traders.

You have to keep the population in check. If you have too many wolves running around, there will be no sheep. And that will make for a very boring universe. And if i wanted to play a game where every person I meet wants to shoot me, I may as well go play Counterstrike. I want to play in a universe where there are all sorts. Traders, bounty hunters, pirates, murderers, etc. To create a vibrant community, you need to appeal to everyone.

And when I say risk, I mean this: As it is now, you can blow a player up costing him millions of credits in loss, and all you have to do is frameshift drive away and pay your pitiful bounty. If you want to be a pirate or a murderer, that's cool, but there should be real, tangible consequences that you have to deal with. Otherwise, we'll just have Mortal Online or Darkfall.

 

[ste]

Oh, I certainly don't mind pirates or even murderers. In fact, I enjoy them. But not everyone shares my view. And, at a certain point, all you'll have is people flying around looking for traders to kill, and there will be no traders.

You have to keep the population in check. If you have too many wolves running around, there will be no sheep. And that will make for a very boring universe. And if i wanted to play a game where every person I meet wants to shoot me, I may as well go play Counterstrike. I want to play in a universe where there are all sorts. Traders, bounty hunters, pirates, murderers, etc. To create a vibrant community, you need to appeal to everyone.

And when I say risk, I mean this: As it is now, you can blow a player up costing him millions of credits in loss, and all you have to do is frameshift drive away and pay your pitiful bounty. If you want to be a pirate or a murderer, that's cool, but there should be real, tangible consequences that you have to deal with. Otherwise, we'll just have Mortal Online or Darkfall.

I agree, but you also risk losing players if they make it too safe and easy and dull.

The game needs some kind of risk otherwise its just plain boring. I already think they toned it down too much already for people wanting the odds pushing further and further in their favour.

The game will not be better if they remove all the danger and add safety net after safety net.

I'm hoping when the thargoids come we will all be crying on the forums

They need to increase the value of your life, making death not a consequence means more people are more likely to not care what they do, ramming and crime will be even higher if dying means nothing.

 

[Defector]

I agree, but you also risk losing players if they make it too safe and easy and dull.

The game needs some kind of risk otherwise its just plain boring. I already think they toned it down too much already for people wanting the odds pushing further and further in their favour.

The game will not be better if they remove all the danger and add safety net after safety net.

I'm hoping when the thargoids come we will all be crying on the forums

They need to increase the value of your life, making death not a consequence means more people are more likely to not care what they do, ramming and crime will be even higher if dying means nothing.

It's a difficult balancing act. Most games do a terrible job. They swing too far on either direction.

I think having a player keep his bounty for a week is a great start. That makes it risky for the pirate at last. He can't just keep slipping back into clean after every interdiction. He's gotta keep looking over his shoulder, playing smart to keep ahead of the bounty hunters. At the same time, he is looking for marks. The pirate may not be able to hang out in more "civilized" space all the time. He has to stay on the fringes. It makes the pirate's gameplay much more interesting and "dangerous" as it does the trader. The trader is always paranoid.

 

[hanks01]

I agree with OP. I have twice met another CMDR whilst playing open and was killed twice. Why bother?

Because the number of good Commanders from my experience VASTLY outweigh the number of bad? If you want to go solo or group, that's fine, no shame in that game but there are many reasons to bother with open. The choice is yours but there are good reasons to be in Open.

 

[Pendra]

And when I say risk, I mean this: As it is now, you can blow a player up costing him millions of credits in loss, and all you have to do is frameshift drive away and pay your pitiful bounty. If you want to be a pirate or a murderer, that's cool, but there should be real, tangible consequences that you have to deal with.

I dare you to go to 406 or other trader CG and start to casually murder traders. Tell me how it went.
Paying bounty off is lame.