Technically my fault...but still unrealistic and dumb

[Grumpy181155]

A crime must be reported and a target must show up as wanted to you in order for it to be confirmed as a target that you can fire upon. I have never been fired on and unable to fire back unless I had turned off crime reporting. There aren't any excuses here, it's a fair system.

I was once working an RES and had been for a couple of days. I managed to get one of the local factions so angry with me they started to KOS. I was in a dog fight with a couple of them and then selected the next enemy, I opened fire and I was hit with WANTED status. Now I honestly don't know if I hit another ship but I had targeted someone who was lit up as red and who was shooting at me. As soon as I was WANTED everyone started in on me. The Security Service forgot all about those 200K Anacondas they were duking it out with and chased little ol' me out of the RES. It seemed like everyone was trying to get that 200 bounty I had.
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Don't read this as a complaint because it is what the game is and imo makes the game interesting and you do learn 'fire discipline'.

 

[Morbad]

Security forces don't care about your bounty, but they should care about the potential threat you pose.

They'd be right to prioritize any ship I happen to be piloting over any NPC, if I take actions that could be interpreted as hostile.

 

[emacinnes]

If police officers are shooting at someone... can you also start shooting at that person?

If I'm allied with the police, then I'd expect so. Like in Texas, u don't need to be a police officer, just allied with them as some community engagement programme.

It's not a general blanket change, but when allied with the system security forces, and the guy is clearly Hostile, my ship has identified him as Hostile on the radar, marked in red, firing at a cargo ship, it's a bit too mercenary to then have to force the player to stop and say "well what's it worth to me to save you. Give me 15 seconds to find out, and you may be dead by then, but I have to find out what you're worth to me first, or I get blown up", before helping the clearly-in-trouble cargo ship out?

Normally, if I'm neutral to them, fine, require a scan, I'm a rookie, or an unknown player, but there's seemingly no use whatsoever for Neutral vs Allied status, even though I've cleaned up millions of creds worth of baddies already. "Greetings, respected ally" right? Where's the respect?

 

[gooddoc]

You pewpew guys just can't wait to blow things away.....serves you right, you got what you deserved

 

[Taimaru]

If I go into a shopping mall and notice a notorious criminal wanted by the police, I can't just pull out a gun and shoot him. The right course of action is to ring the cops and let them know where to find the wanted criminal.

If I walk into a shopping mall and notice a firefight between police and a wanted notorious criminal I can't just shoot the criminal without the police opening fire on me as well. I don't have the right to kill or if I do (as a cop) the police don't know that and they will see me as a threat.

If I walk into a shopping mall and notice a firefight between police and a wanted notorious criminal and I am a well known 4 star General I still can't just shoot the criminal, I need to ask the police first if they need any help if I don't want to be shot by them. My status doesn't put me above the law.

If I walk into a shopping mall and notice a firefight between police and a wanted notorious criminal and I am a policemen from a different area, not wearing a uniform, I still can't just shoot the criminal, I need to first tell the police who I am (show them my badge) and ask them if they need any help. They have no idea who I am and until they see my badge I am just another threat to them if I pull out a gun.

It doesn't matter who you are it is always good practice to let the local cops know your intentions and to make sure they know you aren't a threat to them, that you have the right to kill and you're not just some psycho out for a fight (yes, some psycho falsely wear a police uniform).

Elite: Dangerous is no different and if you really think about it the rules in the game do make sense.

 

[William Eliot]

I was once working an RES and had been for a couple of days. I managed to get one of the local factions so angry with me they started to KOS. I was in a dog fight with a couple of them and then selected the next enemy, I opened fire and I was hit with WANTED status. Now I honestly don't know if I hit another ship but I had targeted someone who was lit up as red and who was shooting at me. As soon as I was WANTED everyone started in on me. The Security Service forgot all about those 200K Anacondas they were duking it out with and chased little ol' me out of the RES. It seemed like everyone was trying to get that 200 bounty I had.
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Don't read this as a complaint because it is what the game is and imo makes the game interesting and you do learn 'fire discipline'.

This is exactly the sort of thing I am talking about. I completely disagree as to it making the game interesting though. You can only run back to the station so many dozens of times because the Feds don't know what self defence or friendly fire is before it gets tedious. Targets that are red, should be clear to engage, no scan necessary, provided that you aren't wanted yourself. You should never be penalized for defending yourself.

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In fact I don't think there should be a need to wait for the scan to complete at all. Wanted is wanted. But I know that's not going to change, so at least make it a little less painful when it comes to rep-hostile ships...

 

[micky1984]

my suggestion to FD is a combat HUD module that diplays all the information needed on the HUD not the panels speed status hull strength weapons carried and using imagine how easy it would be when the wanted status flashes above the target on your HUD

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If I go into a shopping mall and notice a notorious criminal wanted by the police, I can't just pull out a gun and shoot him. The right course of action is to ring the cops and let them know where to find the wanted criminal.

If I walk into a shopping mall and notice a firefight between police and a wanted notorious criminal I can't just shoot the criminal without the police opening fire on me as well. I don't have the right to kill or if I do (as a cop) the police don't know that and they will see me as a threat.

If I walk into a shopping mall and notice a firefight between police and a wanted notorious criminal and I am a well known 4 star General I still can't just shoot the criminal, I need to ask the police first if they need any help if I don't want to be shot by them. My status doesn't put me above the law.

If I walk into a shopping mall and notice a firefight between police and a wanted notorious criminal and I am a policemen from a different area, not wearing a uniform, I still can't just shoot the criminal, I need to first tell the police who I am (show them my badge) and ask them if they need any help. They have no idea who I am and until they see my badge I am just another threat to them if I pull out a gun.

It doesn't matter who you are it is always good practice to let the local cops know your intentions and to make sure they know you aren't a threat to them, that you have the right to kill and you're not just some psycho out for a fight (yes, some psycho falsely wear a police uniform).

Elite: Dangerous is no different and if you really think about it the rules in the game do make sense.

lol in america all you need to do is have a car backfire and they fire 160 shots at you then a cop jumps on your bonnet and kills youeven though u dont have a weapon

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This is exactly the sort of thing I am talking about. I completely disagree as to it making the game interesting though. You can only run back to the station so many dozens of times because the Feds don't know what self defence or friendly fire is before it gets tedious. Targets that are red, should be clear to engage, no scan necessary, provided that you aren't wanted yourself. You should never be penalized for defending yourself.

- - - Updated - - -

In fact I don't think there should be a need to wait for the scan to complete at all. Wanted is wanted. But I know that's not going to change, so at least make it a little less painful when it comes to rep-hostile ships...

wanted is not wanted untill you know they are wanted that requires a scan to complete the rule is simple hoiwever people are simple aswell

 

[Quineloe]

Unrealistic? In a game where you're a space bounty hunter, hunting interstellar pirates?

because space doesn't really exist, right?

 

[deathTouch]

If police officers are shooting at someone... can you also start shooting at that person?

Here in Murica, the NRA would give you a medal for patriotism if you did.

You'd get bonus points too if you did it with an assault rifle.

 

[emacinnes]

If I go into a shopping mall and notice a notorious criminal wanted by the police, I can't just pull out a gun and shoot him. The right course of action is to ring the cops and let them know where to find the wanted criminal.

In real life, the cops would see the $500 reward, then see you requested it, shoot you first, and then shoot the bad guy to get the $500.



Will the police, in the Mall analogy, say, "well, ok, shoot that one, but ask me individually about the other 2 robbers", or would they just give me a report to say "this one, this one and that one".

It's the group thing that bugs me the most right now. Not an individual criminal, although the game does kinda "train" towards Red = always going to shoot me whether I scan or not, but a gang of 5 wanted criminals just warped in, do I need to submit individual requests, or will just 1 per-wing do?.

Plus, turrets currently don't follow any "need to scan", and will just shoot anything red (even Fire at Target), and that just upsets everybody.

 

[Colonel North]

Alright, alright, you all win, I'm just upset about this. I get the message, I shouldn't have done what I did and I was dumb to do it.

I'm wrong, you don't need to tell me any more.

Fair play mate. Whatever the technical/ lore/ immersion arguments it still sucks when you get blown up and faced with a big bill. Whether it's your fault or not doesn't make you feel any better!

ED seems to reward prudence and punish recklessness. I'm risk adverse by nature so it suits me to play the game that way.

 

[#43734]

I can see the OP´s point! What´s the main sence to become allied with a faction? To get system permissions, little discounts when buying upgrades and the green colour on the scanner? Are these the only reasons why we completing all the missions? I would like to have more advantages. For example getting warned when firing on an allied by mistake (friendly fire) the first time. A cooldown time could solve the problem: hitting an allied vessel will result in a warning massage and start the cooldown timer, when firing again within this time you will become wanted.

 

[Zplintz]

Maybe you will get what you want in 1.3?

 

[Sugarat]

So many people call for changes to the "Wanted" system because they were attacked when they made a mistake, and so many complain that the in game security is inadequate when dealing with player criminals.. really don't know what FD should do about it. Alternatively we could all try play with the mechanic as it is rather than make demand after demand because "it's not right" or "it's not fair".

 

[Mikey2305]

i have a sure way of avoiding this. i dont have any weapons...

 

[#43734]

I´m looking forward...and I´m quite relaxed, the Dev´s have proven that they develop the galaxy and game mechanics further while listen to the community.

 

[babelfisch]

Just play CoD if you need to shoot everything that moves but don't try to change a game that you fail to understand.

You are not the savior of the universe and you are not free to do whatever you want without facing the consequences. It's that simple, play by the rules or prepare to get punished.

Shooting someone without knowing his identity is not allowed.
Red doesn't equal wanted.

Not talking about OP here, he already admitted that he was wrong.

 

[Iskariot]

Yesterday I had a "wanted"-Tag (200 cr fine) for friendly-fire in a RES. When I tried to cash in my bounties I got scanned upon entering the station and everyone fired at me. I turned and boosted away, entering supercruise with 1 shield-ring left. In supercruise I U-turned and returned to station. This time no scan - i could enter and wipe my fine.
This method worked for many times and saved me a lot of rebuys. Maybe try this next time.
Eisen

Yes it works, but it is very unrealistic and gamey.
I think it would be better to have some fundamental changes, like no wanted tags for a measly 200 credits.

As the op described it is ridiculous that when you assist the police in destroying a criminal you get attacked yourself unless you take the time to scan the criminal first. You might have saved the lives of numerous cops, but they do not care if you do not scan. Even if it is abundantly clear that you shot a wanted criminal.

This is weird and unrealistic behavior. I think it would be better if the game only punished you if you attacked an innocent ship instead of punishing you for attacking an unscanned ship.

The current system neuters instinctive game play and does not allow for judging npc ships on the fly. It puts a brake on the flow of combat. This is unnecessary.
If you judge a ship to be a pirate for example, because of the way it behaves in a RES, or because of the content of its comms, or because it is attacking miners or police you should be free to attack it without initial scan. If it turns out you made a mistake and the ship is innocent then you should be in trouble because you attacked an innocent ship, not because you attacked an unscanned ship.

I think this will improve the combat experience and remove unnecessary frustrations like becoming wanted for saving a cops life because you did not take the time to scan the criminal that was about to murder him..

 

[babelfisch]

Yes it works, but it is very unrealistic and gamey.
I think it would be better to have some fundamental changes, like no wanted tags for a measly 200 credits.

As the op described it is ridiculous that when you assist the police in destroying a criminal you get attacked yourself unless you take the time to scan the criminal first. You might have saved the lives of numerous cops, but they do not care if you do not scan. Even if it is abundantly clear that you shot a wanted criminal.

This is weird and unrealistic behavior. I think it would be better if the game only punished you if you attacked an innocent ship instead of punishing you for attacking an unscanned ship.

The current system neuters instinctive game play and does not allow for judging npc ships on the fly. It puts a break on the flow of combat. This is unnecessary.
If you judge a ship to be a pirate for example, because of the way it behaves in a RES, or because of the content of its comms, or because it is attacking miners or police you should be free to attack it without initial scan. If it turns out you made a mistake and the ship is innocent then you should be in trouble because you attacked an innocent ship, not because you attacked an unscanned ship.

I think this will improve the combat experience and remove unnecessary frustrations like becoming wanted for saving a cops life because you did not take the time to scan the criminal that was about to murder him..

OR you just wait 5 seconds before you fire.

BTW criminals don't kill cops, they run away. As said above you are no savior. They can perfectly defend themselves.

 

[Farmboy]

There are a number of things you have to learn not to do in this game without lethal consequences - loiter over the wrong pad, or in the slot for too long - boost while inside the station - shoot ships before you see they are wanted in the range of station guns.

Even that wanted tag in a RES or shooting the wrong ship enough in a CZ can be very very hairy even in a large ship, and lingering for 'one more kill' before bugging out to clear it in that scenario can also be fatal. Some of these learning experiences are painful alas. My most recent was an accidental boost into the back of the station in my python - first death in weeks :/.

I'm hoping the 1.3 tweaks will make accidental friendly fire less common. I fear the 'shoot before scan completes' problem will be more severe though, if it generates bounties, forcing a change of system.