Technically my fault...but still unrealistic and dumb

[B33 ENN]

Why? Seriously. Is it toooooooooo muuuuuuuuuch to wait a second for the scan to complete before you pew pew pew? Smart pilots might see the scan completion time as an opportunity to line up their shot and charge their railguns.

I see what you're saying, and it's a tough one to call because I understand the limitation of the mechanic: you need clearance to fire. I'm more or less used to just watching the scan thing now and controlling my itchy trigger finger, although the odd slip still occurs and I have to boost out of there.

Usually, though, it means watching them go at it and miss out if they get him first, or if he manages to escape to supercruise. So there is this sort of cognitive dissonance when a pirate wing is attacking an innocent miner, or a group of security are wearing down a pirate, and you still have to sit idly by until your scanner is happy that the guy is definitely Wanted.

I think the suggestions are really to just tweak that part of the game a bit so it flows more rationally while you're immersed in the world. Perhaps, if an attack is in progress already then the scanner could just skip to the result immediately without the wait, as if it has fast-tracked the approval by recieving the data from the other ships that have already scanned them?

 

[Zplintz]

I was facing the screen of a Python rebuy when I shot an Adder outside of a station a millisecond before the scan finished and got obliterated by the feds right after even though they were all shooting it, I mean come on! that's 3.7 million down the drain (not counting the 300K-ish I had in unclaimed bounties) and I was helping the feds, but apparently, I still have to scan something millions of feds was shooting at...I mean, I know how the game mechanics work, but is it possible to get my ship refunded for this utter break in immersion for something so inconceivably dumb?

Technically? It is entirely your fault. You failed to scan and you attacked a ship outside a station.

 

[Jackie McMackie]

Technically? It is entirely your fault. You failed to scan and you attacked a ship outside a station.

Alright, enough already, have you not read the rest of the thread or something?

 

[andrak]

The fact that a scan is required at all is the bigger question. It makes much more sense that it should only take one scan of a ship by a player or NPC and then all other ships receive that scan data instantly. That is how it seems to work for authority. One of them finds you wanted and all hell breaks loose. As long as no one scans you smuggling would be unaffected.

We have drives that jump light years, scanners that reveal all bodies for thousands of light seconds but no, we can't simply transfer tiny amounts of data between ships a few km from each other... The moment the cops scanned that ship data should have instantly been sent to all other ships in the instance and should have updated everyone with the new status.

 

[smsKONG]

Every single contact must be scanned by facing them before you get any info.
It's so simple and basic that I can't believe there are so many who would have it all automatic.

Considering I've seen authority ships attacking their own (all green on my scanner..) because of a FF incident you can't just say it's obvious who the criminal is.
There'll be cases where what you assume to be happening is very wrong - what happens when you jump to the aid of the little guy fighting off a full wing; only to find out you are wanted because the little guy attacked first before you arrived.

This is not to bag the op who has alreadt hung his head in shame btw!
This is for those calling for change to what is technically a necessity.

Maybe the scan time could be reduced for anyone with ADHD but considering it's only a few seconds already I don't think even this concession is needed.

Remember also that a concentrated burst from close range will do far more damage than a few glancing shots from distance - scan while you get close.

 

[greenlantern]

If police officers are shooting at someone... can you also start shooting at that person?

yea yea...not until I scan them to know they're wanted.

 

[Valethar]

I was facing the screen of a Python rebuy when I shot an Adder outside of a station a millisecond before the scan finished and got obliterated by the feds right after even though they were all shooting it, I mean come on! that's 3.7 million down the drain (not counting the 300K-ish I had in unclaimed bounties) and I was helping the feds, but apparently, I still have to scan something millions of feds was shooting at...I mean, I know how the game mechanics work, but is it possible to get my ship refunded for this utter break in immersion for something so inconceivably dumb?

You may have tagged the station while you were shooting at the Adder, which is really, really bad. Apparently the guys inside don't have much of a sense of humor.

 

[Dbrn47]

THE LAW DOESN'T NEED YOUR HELP

 

[who?]

The thing that gets me is you can have a pirate flying about a RES for ages and will be completely ignored by the authorities until someone opens fire. But even in the middle of a huge dogfight, one shot from you 1 second before the scan completes the entire security forces turn around and attack you instantly. It seems a little....imbalanced.

 

[William Eliot]

If another ship has hit you - then it becomes wanted unless you are in an Anarchy system. Otherwise, the laws are equal for everyone and hostile does not necessarily mean wanted.
And you will be able to engage in combat with enemy ships in 1.3 if the power of your choice is at war with them.

You shouldn't have to wait for each individual member of the hostile wing to open fire on you before you can treat them as hostile. It'd be one thing if reputation was just something that affected mission availability or whatever but it's not. When you are rep hostile with a faction they try to kill you on sight and you should not have to wait until you already have three of them shooting at you before you can even fight back.

 

[Dbrn47]

You shouldn't have to wait for each individual member of the hostile wing to open fire on you before you can treat them as hostile. It'd be one thing if reputation was just something that affected mission availability or whatever but it's not. When you are rep hostile with a faction they try to kill you on sight and you should not have to wait until you already have three of them shooting at you before you can even fight back.

Rules of engagement man. You aren't allowed to assume hostility, it must be confirmed. If not, the world and the news treats you like a criminal.

 

[William Eliot]

Rules of engagement man. You aren't allowed to assume hostility, it must be confirmed. If not, the world and the news treats you like a criminal.

It is confirmed...
It's just dumb how you have to rely on a scanner when the targets in question are already red on the radar and telling how they're going to boil you up. I'm tired of people making excuses for this. It's just tedious and bad having to run back and forth to the station every five minutes because the Feds don't have a clue.

 

[ocflyer]

...And do not fire in the no fire zone - this is totally not worth it. How much would you earn destroying a wanted Adder? I think that it is 15k Cr on average. So you were took the risk of losing ~4M Cr for 15k Cr profit. Totally not worth it.

This is not true. If you fire in a no-fire zone around a station, you get a 100cr fine. Yesterday, on the way out of a station, I noticed the authorities shooting at a clipper right next to the station. I used KWS and found a 16000 cr bounty! So, OF COURSE I shot and killed him only 0.5km from the station! Neither the authority ships nor the station fired on me. After killing the wanted pilot, I went right back into the station and paid my 100 cr fine and claimed the 16000 bounty. Such a good deal for 1 minute of work!

 

[CMDR RAY-ZOR'SHARP]

Alright, alright, you all win, I'm just upset about this. I get the message, I shouldn't have done what I did and I was dumb to do it.

I'm wrong, you don't need to tell me any more.

You were so wrong.

If you have the chance, next time try boosting away and flying to a system you are not wanted, had to do that several times at RES when shooting a friendly by mistake.

 

[DamnTheseVoices]

I'm a noob BUT from reading posts, I understand the mechanics of this game that you have to scan and identify someone as wanted BEFORE opening fire on them or else you become wanted regardless of whether the ship is actually wanted or not.

With that said, WHY? Please can someone explain the actual logic?

I use logical reasoning to figure stuff out and this makes no sense to me. A wanted ship is wanted REGARDLESS of whether you scanned it or not. Just like a tree that falls in the woods makes a noise whether you were there to hear it or not . If you fire on a non scanned wanted ship, you DID NOT attack a CLEAN ship, right? Why do the mechanics lump it in the same boat?

Yes, you should always scan, but sometimes it happens and firing on a wanted ship that you did not complete a scan on SHOULD NOT lump you in the same boat as firing on a completely INNOCENT ship.

Why not have a Fine Category for Illegitimate Scan/Attack or something in that area that penalizes you, BUT does not make you wanted... I don't really understand why there needs to be any penalty in this situation since no legit player out there is going to be firing on ships hoping it is wanted purposefully risking firing on tons of clean ships in the mean time, will they?? And non legit players will just fire on anything they want...

IDK, without understanding the motivation here, it makes no sense for someone to be wanted for firing on a wanted ship... penalized with a fine for improper scan procedure sounds more appropriate without the wanted status IF it is imperative there needs to be a reprimand for this (which I can't understand why either).

Thanks for any enlightenment

 

[Dbrn47]

It is confirmed...
It's just dumb how you have to rely on a scanner when the targets in question are already red on the radar and telling how they're going to boil you up. I'm tired of people making excuses for this. It's just tedious and bad having to run back and forth to the station every five minutes because the Feds don't have a clue.

A crime must be reported and a target must show up as wanted to you in order for it to be confirmed as a target that you can fire upon. I have never been fired on and unable to fire back unless I had turned off crime reporting. There aren't any excuses here, it's a fair system.

 

[Lucifer Hate]

I'm familiar with this, but it was literally wanted right after I shot it, like a split-second before, and I still got obliterated instantly...

Were you inside the no fire zone.. If so the station probably fired fired and explains the instant kill. I don't see anything they are likely to refund for. You did not die to a bug but something completely your fault and seeming to be working as they intended (considering it has been this way so long)

 

[Markoz]

I have only helped the local authorities at a spaceport on two occasions. The first was to see what would happen in the "no fire zone" of the station, in which I was willing to lose the sidewinder to find out. The second was because it was a large ship which I figured would be worth a reasonable bounty. On both occasions I knew to wait for the scan to finish to make sure they were WANTED. Generally, I prefer to stay out of a firefight in the "no fire zone". It's much safer!

 

[CMDR Holycow]

, but is it possible to get my ship refunded for this utter break in immersion for something so inconceivably dumb?

Why would you get your ship back for something you did, that you even admit was inconceivably dumb to do? How do you get all the way to a python in this game and still have this mentality?

 

[Morbad]

I don't find this behavior unreasonable, or a break in immersion...quite the opposite really.

Don't do stupid stuff in the vicinity of overwhelming firepower that is likely to be offended by your presumptions.

If police officers are shooting at someone... can you also start shooting at that person?

Only if you want to be charged with reckless endangerment, unlawful discharge of a firearm, obstruction of justice, and attempted murder or murder...at least in my area. And that assumes the police don't mistake you for a perpetrator/accomplice and gun you down on the spot. There are exceptions if you are the one being shot at unlawfully, or if the police request your aid, but in general, trying to get in on any action is frowned upon.

Try walking in on a group of cops in a gunfight and firing off a few rounds in real life, and see where that gets you.

Inside a plastic bag at the local morgue.

then the station opens fire at you, and as a result your chances to survive are 0.

Well, not if you anticipate the station opening up on you.

[video=youtube;bU8Rar-4yug]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU8Rar-4yug[/video]

With that said, WHY? Please can someone explain the actual logic?

Because you don't know for sure otherwise. You can assume, but you don't know. And even if you know, you don't legally know.

Same reason there is a presumption of innocence and things like due process and trials in most civilized societies, even if the case seems to be obvious.