Dual Naval Rank

[Cmdr Synapse]

@Beeston

Good points, agree with most of what you said.

Ultimately I would like to see our choices have a real effect on what we can and cannot do in the game, but not make the irreversible, just increasingly more difficult to counter the longer we take down a particular path.

I just see the naval ranks and access to these ships as a glaringly obvious example of the opposite.

 

[EdzUp]

In all honesty I think we should decide our allegiance at the beginning when selecting our commander name, after that we should be placed in one of their systems to play the game. Options could be 'Alliance', 'Federation', 'Empire' or 'Freelancer' the last choice if for those that dont want to faff with powerplay, on the whole dual ranks may cause issues I would have thought with you being accused of a double agent and having assassins sent to deal with the problem

 

[Jaeger]

How does it make sense to have a high rank in two or more factions that are rivals?

Does one faction consult with the other regarding ranking? No they don't.

 

[Colonel North]

The flexible open ended universe and opportunities to role play are what makes this game great. So I don't think it would be good to apply restrictions to that.

Many people seem to enjoy role playing an allegiance to one faction. There are some great banners pledging fealty on this board in members sigs. So the 'pick your side' logic clearly works for them.

Others as above like the option to role play double agent.

...and there are those (like me) that just want to collect the badges!

So current mechanic allows room for all three, changing that would take from some people and not really give anything to those that support restrictions.

 

[micky1984]

Kim Philby = 'some sort of super double agent'

Yeah they could lock solo too, but that has already been discussed to death on other threads. If you really think I'm jealous then take another look at my original post, it's very easy to max out both navy ranks atm. I too am a post commander and could easily obtain count in a few days if I wished. That is not the point of the post. Put forward a good argument why it should work the way it does and you should hold high rank with multiple factions simultaneously.

i have done it myself and it takes more than a couple of days and i dont have to put forward any arguement it works they way it works jealousy is what your suffering from because some people are high up with both and your not

 

[parrdacc]

Apologies if this has been discussed else where but I feel it merits some discussion with regards to the next update and the future of the game.

Currently players can hold ranks in both imperial and federation navy simultaneously, I think this needs to change to lock players into their chosen path. In reality this would not happen (unless you were some sort of super double agent) and I think changing it would be for the better.

This would restrict players to the faction ships of their chosen navy and other perks we may see in the future. Players could for example have the option to leave their navy and give up their rank but be forced to always start from the bottom every time they change. Any ships they have acquired in navy they are no longer a member of or do not have rank to buy but decide to use should not be able to be repurchased upon destruction.

What do you guys think?

Well, as for me I see no real problem holding ranks simultaneously. I think the problem lies in the word rank. Rank for most automatically implies a commitment to a faction due to it implying some sort of enlisted or volunteer solider. This in ED does not seem to be the real case in that ranks only imply a level of trust within a faction and not the expected loyalty one assumes from a dedicated solider. So the holding of simultaneous ranks really only shows trust levels and as such one can have different ranks (trust levels) among factions. However, I do agree that some sort of "trade off" should take place that effects faction standing. This is just a possible idea: say that regardless of rank, that the "trade off" only begins once you buy a ship that is specific to a particular faction. Once that happens standing in the opposing factions suffer.

 

[Daeron]

There's no reason to lock people out from having both naval progression paths... IF later naval missions end up reducing the opposing naval rep then it should just make it very difficult to have both - iirc Frontier Elite allowed it.

Frontier Elite was a single player game. It did not have to make sense, because nobody was really watching. In a multiplayer environment it sure doesn't make any sense whatsoever, and it never will.

 

[DrakeAurum]

How does it make sense to have a high rank in two or more factions that are rivals?

It's because neither side actually respects the other's rank structure enough to take it seriously. To the Imperials, the concept of allowing commoners to wield military power is patently absurd, whilst the Federation find the idea of a mere bloodline granting someone the right and competence to command soldiers equally ridiculous.

 

[Daeron]

It's because neither side actually respects the other's rank structure enough to take it seriously. To the Imperials, the concept of allowing commoners to wield military power is patently absurd, whilst the Federation find the idea of a mere bloodline granting someone the right and competence to command soldiers equally ridiculous.

Organised hostile actions in opposed spheres of interest, tend to make for the real meat after all the academic considerations have been duly written down. No, it does not make sense to forgive treachery based on the different command structures. It does not even go well for Imperials using the very same system, for that matter!

 

[Deathwatch]

The rank is there trust in you to carry out a contract or a mission without ballsing it up, this is how mercenaries exist they have a reputation with everyone so they get paid.

If im not allowed the courier because im neutral i demand to be able to buy it on the black market.

 

[Daeron]

The rank is there trust in you to carry out a contract or a mission without ballsing it up, this is how mercenaries exist they have a reputation with everyone so they get paid.

Doesn't work so well when you in effect is providing hardware that will be returning the favour in less than an exemplary manner. That is when your standing goes down, see.

 

[Dread Lord]

OP is right! Also I always expected Imperial supporters being wanted to Federation Players and vice versa.... very disapointed this is not the case! Currently ist totally meaningless

 

[Daeron]

If im not allowed the courier because im neutral i demand to be able to buy it on the black market.

I agree. But you should also be shot down on sight in the Empire. Fairness for all!

 

[IOStream]

I have been thinking this very thing since I started playing OP. It would make for much more interesting game play if we were forced to pick a side or remain independent. Powerplay confuses the matter even more. I am currently allied with most Fed minor factions but have taken an interest in joining the pirate power due to come out in 1.3. I wish there were someway I could reset my allegiances without wiping my ship/pilot federation rank/credits progress.

 

[psefergr]

Take this into account also. With the current rank we wouldn't be able to admire the beauty of some of the systems that have permits (which require a rank) and be unable to access some rare trades. Vega system for example. As far as federation ships the federal dropship is a slow un-maneuverable hog but we couldn't be able to access it .The clipper also requires a rank but at least it worth's it!. Why not allow a player the freedom to fly all ships? . Let the game force you to do missions against the other sides so to become hostile and loose rank and other privileges or better what side you choose in conflict zones must have a effect in rank with the side you choose to fight for and a negative reputation with the opposing one.

 

[n13L5]

As if dual faction ranks actually were a problem of some sort.

What's it to you? It just irks you, like an itch you can't scratch cause its other people who are doing it?

Your abstaining from it for your personal role-playings sake isn't enough for you? Everybody should have to play by your idea of role playing this?


Not at the cost of my role playing, you aren't! I'm playing a double agent, unaffiliated mercenary for his own cause, who treats both factions fairly in business, but has enough dirt on either to not be crossed.


1) this isn't 21 century reality.

2) Empire and Federation systems coexist right next to each other, a Federation system providing the food for an Empire industrial system.

3) in no recent multiplayer game I've played has grinding up one faction precluded you from grinding up another faction

4) since FD already allowed people to commit the considerable grind time to rank up in more than one faction, they're hardly going to take it away from them. Inciting your customers' displeasure with careless moves is never a good idea. Especially when people committed a lot of time, that could have been spent in various more fun and / or profitable ways instead.


One more reason I'd like an offline version, so I can play the game ED made and not what other players are trying to talk them into, to the detriment of others.

 

[micky1984]

People keep jabbering about dual faction ranks as if actually was a problem of some sort.

1) this isn't 21 century reality.

2) Empire and Federation systems coexist right next to each other, a Federation system providing the food for an Empire industrial system.

3) in no recent multiplayer game I've played has grinding up one faction precluded you from grinding up another faction

4) since FD already allowed people to commit the considerable grind time to rank up in more than one faction, they're hardly going to take it away from them. Inciting your customers' displeasure with careless moves is never a good idea. Especially when people committed a lot of time, that could have been spent in various more fun and / or profitable ways instead.

its clear that only jealous players are wanting this change because they dont have both and they dont want others to have both

 

[Daeron]

People keep jabbering about dual faction ranks as if its a problem of some sort.

1) this isn't 21 century reality

2) Empire and Federation systems coexist right next to each other, a Federation system providing the food for an Empire industrial system.

3) in no game has grinding up one faction ever precluded you from grinding up another faction

4) since FD already allowed people to commit the considerable grind time to rank up in more than one faction, they're hardly going to take it away from them. Inciting your customers' displeasure with careless moves is never a good idea. Especially when people committed a lot of time, that could have been spent in various more fun and / or profitable ways instead.

That sounds logical, in a game with fixed parameters, like not allowing your Asp to end up as a Sidewinder on a not so happy day. A believable universe is more worth than a thousand ways to preserve a bizarro status quo, where you can do silly stuff without any consequences whatsoever.

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its clear that only jealous players are wanting this change because they dont have both and they dont want others to have both

I for one could care less about having both. I've not even been to Earth. Not my kind of place.

 

[n13L5]

That sounds logical, in a game with fixed parameters, like not allowing your Asp to end up as a Sidewinder on a not so happy day. A believable universe is more worth than a thousand ways to preserve a bizarro status quo, where you can do silly stuff without any consequences whatsoever.

There's enough near ridiculous consequences already in the game. Beyond that, the whole game is silly, why should silly stuff not be allowed? This is a silly game and we are silly to play it. Imaginary space ships in space littered with the same space stations everywhere. Navy's, Armies, Banks criminal governments and all that other nasty real world stuff is also silly. Being a double or many sided agent is one of very few things that would make any sense in this landscape.

The only thing of any meaning is all the time we sink into it. And even our time is little more than a mirage, at least to us, as we cannot understand its existence.

 

[Daeron]

There's enough near ridiculous consequences already in the game. Beyond that, the whole game is silly, why should silly stuff not be allowed? This is a silly game and we are silly to play it. Imaginary space ships in space littered with the same space stations everywhere. Navy's, Armies, Banks criminal governments and all that other nasty real world stuff is also silly. Being a double or many sided agent is one of very few things that would make any sense in this landscape.

The only thing of any meaning is all the time we sink into it. And even our time is little more than a mirage, at least to us, as we cannot understand its existence.

Order before chaos, law before anarchy, and system to all the madness. That is what matters. At least to an Imperial.