Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[TheSpaceTexan]

u said that solo can have more control....and now going to other issues jumping around

No, you're putting words in my posts.

 

[fademist]

For now, it is for Open Play. They can't tell who is helping them because they didn't have a tag there. It's kinda why people wanted groups to also give some sort of tag to indicate they're a member.

Edit: You can control what you do in Solo. You can get a generally control roughly what your groups will do in Private Groups. But it isn't the same for Players in Open Play and it goes back to that fact that we don't have tags to distinguish ourselves.

so where exacly i put words in ur posts?

 

[TheSpaceTexan]

so where exacly i put words in ur posts?

For clarity purposes.


YOU and ONLY you have direct control of your actions in SOLO mode. This is not even talking about Private or Open Play.

In Private Group, if there's a general consensus, your group is going to flock to it. Sometimes people don't agree with the general consensus, sometimes they do. Majority of the time, they work for the group. In Open Play, you are up against anyone who stands in you or your group's way, but unlike the previous two modes, you can SEE THEM. In the previous two, you can't do that. You can't even see whose against you in Solo and you can't see who is against you in Private Groups (unless in the rare case its your member and even then you don't know). Which is why its best to know who is working against you.


Which is why the three modes are so different, because you can't see your opponents, only in Open if they even go into Open.

 

[fademist]

For clarity purposes.


YOU and ONLY you have direct control of your actions in SOLO mode. This is not even talking about Private or Open Play.

In Private Group, if there's a general consensus, your group is going to flock to it. Sometimes people don't agree with the general consensus, sometimes they do. Majority of the time, they work for the group. In Open Play, you are up against anyone who stands in you or your group's way, but unlike the previous two modes, you can SEE THEM. In the previous two, you can't do that. You can't even see whose against you in Solo and you can't see who is against you in Private Groups (unless in the rare case its your member and even then you don't know). Which is why its best to know who is working against you.

now u made it better so isnt my fault

 

[SteveLaw]

YOU and ONLY you have direct control of your actions in SOLO mode.

Because that's what Solo mode is for. You choose Open if you want interaction with any and all (random) players (who want to interact with you), Group if you want to interact with a specific sub-set of players and Solo if you don't want to interact with any. Working as intended.

 

[TheSpaceTexan]

Well if you're going to be so blunt about it and use that silly logic, Make it Open play only and then it is working as intended.

Or better yet, just tell us who is working against who! That'll make us know who is truly against a cause and stop us from guessing. This'll also help bug testing in general.

I think the second is better.

 

[SteveLaw]

Well if you're going to be so blunt about it and use that silly logic, Make it Open play only and then it is working as intended.

Are you talking to me? I'm explaining what the modes are, how is that blunt or "silly logic"? That's what they are, you not liking it doesn't make them something different.

 

[W0OCQCK]

Urgh, just no-thanks to guilds. If they ever do get implemented, it should be in a new mode, so we'd have Solo-Group-Open-Guild.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[fademist]

Well if you're going to be so blunt about it and use that silly logic, Make it Open play only and then it is working as intended.

Or better yet, just tell us who is working against who! That'll make us know who is truly against a cause and stop us from guessing. This'll also help bug testing in general.

I think the second is better.

or remove open

 

[TheSpaceTexan]

Are you talking to me? I'm explaining what the modes are, how is that blunt or "silly logic"? That's what they are, you not liking it doesn't make them something different.

Yes, I am. The way you kinda described I have to say fairly Lackluster, insufficient and doesn't really factor in the background simulator to all the modes as I have.

You only put down what the modes and not any of the other game mechanisms that also go into all of them.

 

[SteveLaw]

I'm going to repost this I wrote yesterday because essentially this is what you're talking about again now Tex.

THAT is what the Background Simulator should be about.

Do you really understand what the Background Simulation is actually supposed to be simulating?

It is supposed to be simulating a dynamic, evolving galaxy. Think about it. A dynamic, evolving galaxy. Think of the billions upon billions of people inhabiting the galaxy in the game. All of those people should have an influence on the galaxy. All of them. Office workers, farmers, starport janitors, managers, politicians, spaceship pilots. They should all affect the politics of the station, planet, system where they are, even if their individual effect is infinitesimal in the grand scheme of things.

You are essentially complaining that the actions of relatively tiny number of pilots should have 100% effectiveness on this dynamic galaxy without any external influence, influence that you can't see or effect. Do you really believe that? Don't you find that idea just a little bit stale and artificial?

The thing about politics is that it's unpredictable. You can have strategies to maximise your potential, but you can never guarantee success.

And you never know all the people working against you. Even if everyone was in Open you would never see everyone working against you. Or with you. Who's to say that more Solo players aren't working for the same factions as you?

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, I am. The way you kinda described I have to say fairly Lackluster, insufficient and doesn't really factor in the background simulator to all the modes as I have.

You only put down what the modes and not any of the other game mechanisms that also go into all of them.

All of the modes have the same mechanisms. You keep mentioning mechanisms but they do not change between the modes. Nor does the background simulator. The only thing that changes is who you can see.

 

[TheSpaceTexan]

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6305

You may want to read that if you haven't.

Nope, Office workers, farmers, starport janitors, managers, politicians, spaceship pilots do not have a say in the background simulator. Only the players.

What you 'think' is NPCs doing the same thing trading is just the market being depleted faster to balance things for the player. All comes back to us.

We are and always will be, mercenaries no matter what anyone tells you. That is literally what we are. That is why we can rank up to allied for all the major Factions. Which is why we don't have power to make or name ships or stations alone.


WHAT THE SIMULATION IS NOT

• It does not provide faction command; this will be done by designers by injecting events.
  • Although the system should provide aggregated data to help guide these events.
• It does not provide a fine detailed simulation of human space in the galaxy.
  • Note that it does provide the framework for a living galaxy as required in the goals.

 

[W0OCQCK]

I'm going to repost this I wrote yesterday because essentially this is what you're talking about again now Tex.



And you never know all the people working against you. Even if everyone was in Open you would never see everyone working against you.

- - - Updated - - -



All of the modes have the same mechanisms. You keep mentioning mechanisms but they do not change between the modes. The only thing that changes is who you can see.

Yea, I'm wondering what the heck he's talking about too? Sounding weirder and weirder too me. lol

 

[fademist]

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6305

You may want to read that if you haven't.

Nope, Office workers, farmers, starport janitors, managers, politicians, spaceship pilots do not have a say in the background simulator. Only the players.

What you 'think' is NPCs doing the same thing trading is just the market being depleted faster to balance things for the player. All comes back to us.


WHAT THE SIMULATION IS NOT

• It does not provide faction command; this will be done by designers by injecting events.
  • Although the system should provide aggregated data to help guide these events.
• It does not provide a fine detailed simulation of human space in the galaxy.
  • Note that it does provide the framework for a living galaxy as required in the goals.

is flight simulator not economy/control sim in the end

 

[W0OCQCK]

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6305

You may want to read that if you haven't.

Nope, Office workers, farmers, starport janitors, managers, politicians, spaceship pilots do not have a say in the background simulator. Only the players.

What you 'think' is NPCs doing the same thing trading is just the market being depleted faster to balance things for the player. All comes back to us.

We are mercenaries no matter what anyone tells you. That is literally what we are. That is why we can rank up to allied for all the major Factions. Which is why we don't have power to make or name ships or stations alone.


WHAT THE SIMULATION IS NOT

• It does not provide faction command; this will be done by designers by injecting events.
  • Although the system should provide aggregated data to help guide these events.
• It does not provide a fine detailed simulation of human space in the galaxy.
  • Note that it does provide the framework for a living galaxy as required in the goals.

OK explain to me what this has to do with modes and mode switching or CG's again. Must have missed something here.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Yea, I'm wondering what the heck he's talking about too? Sounding weirder and weirder too me. lol

It's all part of the metagame

Certain groups need to have real opponents to fight, and they need to show their opponents that in-game terms they are utterly beaten. They need to show other players their strength, and that if you are not with them, their combined might will be against you.

You can pay real protection money against this of course, which is what is encouraged. The whole thing stinks something awful.

 

[TheSpaceTexan]

OK explain to me what this has to do with modes and mode switching or CG's again. Must have missed something here.

Certainly give me a moment.

Do you really understand what the Background Simulation is actually supposed to be simulating?

It is supposed to be simulating a dynamic, evolving galaxy. Think about it. A dynamic, evolvinggalaxy. Think of the billions upon billions of people inhabiting the galaxy in the game. All of those people should have an influence on the galaxy. All of them. Office workers, farmers, starport janitors, managers, politicians, spaceship pilots. They should all affect the politics of the station, planet, system where they are, even if their individual effect is infinitesimal in the grand scheme of things.

You are essentially complaining that the actions of relatively tiny number of pilots should have 100% effectiveness on this dynamic galaxy without any external influence, influence that you can't see or effect. Do you really believe that? Don't you find that idea just a little bit stale and artificial?

The thing about politics is that it's unpredictable. You can have strategies to maximise your potential, but you can never guarantee success.

Are SteveLaw's exact words. What he doesn't see is that we actually DO have the 100% effectiveness ability, on any of the three modes of this dynamic galaxy. We are literally the external influence. It is artificial. It is politics, but its player backed politics where you can't necessarily see or hear about what your potential opponents are doing in the other Modes. UNLESS, they're in open and even then, there is no method to determine if they are hindering or helping the progress.

We are the force that stops the stagnation of a system, Right now, I haven't seen any indicator that the influence rises or decreases on its own. So its entirely dependent on the player's ability to do missions or harm the influence. Which goes back to why can't we see who is influencing the system across the board? Why are we left in the dark?

 

[SteveLaw]

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6305

You may want to read that if you haven't.

Nope, Office workers, farmers, starport janitors, managers, politicians, spaceship pilots do not have a say in the background simulator. Only the players.

What you 'think' is NPCs doing the same thing trading is just the market being depleted faster to balance things for the player. All comes back to us.


WHAT THE SIMULATION IS NOT

• It does not provide faction command; this will be done by designers by injecting events.
  • Although the system should provide aggregated data to help guide these events.
• It does not provide a fine detailed simulation of human space in the galaxy.
  • Note that it does provide the framework for a living galaxy as required in the goals.

I know what that says, I'm saying that it is simulating all those people via the actions of players, not that it actually takes them into account. I'm saying that you should view the actions of players that you can't see or control in that same context. Other people within the galaxy, whoever they are. You can't possible control or even see everyone.

That post also says "Player activities should have greater impact". Player activities should have a greater impact? Greater than what if player activities are the only thing impacting it? That's an odd statement don't you think? They stated it twice.

But I'll repeat this because I don't know if you saw it.

Even if Group and Solo were removed and there was only Open, you would never be able to see or control all the other players. You can only ever see a maximum of 31 other players at any time and some you may never see because of matchmaking rules (they may live too far away or have too slow Internet). You can never have the 100% control that you want, the game can not support it.

 

[fademist]

Certainly give me a moment.

Do you really understand what the Background Simulation is actually supposed to be simulating?

It is supposed to be simulating a dynamic, evolving galaxy. Think about it. A dynamic, evolvinggalaxy. Think of the billions upon billions of people inhabiting the galaxy in the game. All of those people should have an influence on the galaxy. All of them. Office workers, farmers, starport janitors, managers, politicians, spaceship pilots. They should all affect the politics of the station, planet, system where they are, even if their individual effect is infinitesimal in the grand scheme of things.

You are essentially complaining that the actions of relatively tiny number of pilots should have 100% effectiveness on this dynamic galaxy without any external influence, influence that you can't see or effect. Do you really believe that? Don't you find that idea just a little bit stale and artificial?

The thing about politics is that it's unpredictable. You can have strategies to maximise your potential, but you can never guarantee success.

Are SteveLaw's exact words. What he doesn't see is that we actually DO have the 100% effectiveness ability, on any of the three modes of this dynamic galaxy. We are literally the external influence. It is artificial. It is politics, but its player backed politics where you can't necessarily see or hear about what your potential opponents are doing in the other Modes. UNLESS, they're in open and even then, there is no method to determine if they are hindering or helping the progress.

so ur issues isnt cause players have 100% power to change things but cause that power isnt exclusive for ur mode aka ur play style ......

 

[TheSpaceTexan]

I know what that says, I'm saying that it is simulating all those people via the actions of players, not that it actually takes them into account. I'm saying that you should view the actions of players that you can't see or control in that same context. Other people within the galaxy, whoever they are. You can't possible control or even see everyone.

That post also says "Player activities should have greater impact". Player activities should have a greater impact? Greater than what if player activities are the only thing impacting it? That's an odd statement don't you think? They stated it twice.

But I'll repeat this because I don't know if you saw it.

Even if Group and Solo were removed and there was only Open, you would never be able to see or control all the other players. You can only ever see a maximum of 31 other players at any time and some you may never see because of matchmaking rules (they may live too far away or have too slow Internet). You can never have the 100% control that you want, the game can not support it.

No one is asking for any of those two to be removed. You just said it, which is why 31 isn't sufficient to determine how that system is doing. Which is why letting us know who is actively influencing the system is nice! Like a top 100 contributors sort of thing.

It'll help to end a topic that is brought up here a lot.