Alpha package: no perks

[kilvenny]

I have put more money into this game than any other in over 30 years of gaming and I still haven't touched it, but I have got more out of this game in thirteen months than any other game I have ever played. If I hadn't got family responsibilities I would have invested more and be playing Alpha now and naming space stations. Probably some of that comes from being wowed by the original Elite 30 years ago, Elite was like no other game until now and Elite Dangerous and its impossible for someone who didnt experience it to appreciate that.

Much of the angst here to me stems from the fact that the Alpha is like a small version of the game and not a buggy mess. If it had been buggy no one would be lamenting the cost the cost of Alpha they would be laughing at those who had paid for the access.

Personally I think FD have been very savvy, they have got a group of committed people playing Alpha who want the game to be great so they will work positively with FD. Open it up to the mass market and you get all the doom and gloomers gloating over the smallest defects.

 

[Memnoch]

I've spent roughly twice what my entire Steam collection is worth!

Would there really be people gloating over defects? I hope not. That is a level of fanboy I hope never to achieve.

 

[Keeval]

When you see a ship with a gold elite badge on it you will know that the commander is a founding member of elite and has paid for the right to wear that badge, mind you you might feel confident in taking a shot at him as he might not be a very good pilot. however if you see a ship with a sliver elite badge you will know that the commander piloting that ship has earned that badge through combat. are you going to take a shot at him ?

OT: But just to clarify as I understand it from what I've read - if you see a pilot with a Founders decal showing, they are a Founder, irregardless of rank. If you see a pilot with an Elite Badge, then they are Elite rank, the only difference is that if a Founder reaches Elite - they get a gold badge, a non-founder pilot gets a Silver one.

 

[OillyRag]

OT: But just to clarify as I understand it from what I've read - if you see a pilot with a Founders decal showing, they are a Founder, irregardless of rank. If you see a pilot with an Elite Badge, then they are Elite rank, the only difference is that if a Founder reaches Elite - they get a gold badge, a non-founder pilot gets a Silver one.

Ok thanks, i stand corrected

 

[GuruNot]

I have to agree.

Exactly! I remember during the kickstarter when some people used to slag of the very early footage saying it looked rubbish and they were not going to back it. Well, things have changed haven't they? Those people have now seen the alpha footage and want a piece of the action because it looks amazing.

However, all is not lost. You can always buy the game when it goes retail.

Meanwhile, the rest of us who backed the game during the kickstarter can enjoy the early game play opportunities and marvel at the wonderful graphics because we deserve it.

Indeed the game is getting made because of us who pledged in the KickStarter Campaign and as a result we got some extra benefits.

The Alpha and Premium Beta packages currently available in the Shop get you all future expansions. What you dont get are some of the extras that could be deemed kickstarter benefits.

 

[vintager]

Reading between the lines in the alpha forum, the dev team seem to have underestimated the volume of useful feedback they would receive. Perhaps a more logical conclusion is that their website communicated a message that turned out to be wrong, and will need to update the site when they get back after Christmas

That's a very logical response, but we'll have to wait and see if they indeed will update anything.

2popuptoaster
2Pecisk
You bring up some interesting points, I hope I've touched on them below.

Indeed the game is getting made because of us who pledged in the KickStarter Campaign and as a result we got some extra benefits.

Just for the record: I've pledged 350+€ to Dreamfall: Chapters, when they had no screenshots whatsoever, just an overall description of what they were intending to accomplish. I simply wanted to give that game & the people making it a chance to survive, this was my additional incentive in that particular case. ED is funded now, so this incentive is lacking.

Frontier have said they have enough funding to develop the game for retail release.

Why on blue earth would you say that? For your information, there's a huge signboard at the top of the main page, It says "Help support Elite". If you have enough funding, why ask for support?

Ultimately if you don't value the alpha then it is your choice not to take Frontier up on it you have previously indicated that the kind of sums involved weren't a problem.

However just because you don't value the alpha I'm not sure that Frontiers attitude can be classed as appalling.

You bring up some valid points, but unfortunately you're wrong, at least in my case.

Let me talk about it from another angle. I'm a guitarist, although not a professional one. I certainly value a good guitar (for reference, we're talking 2000+€ here). Technically I have access to the necessary amount of money; however, since the ratio of this sum to my monthly income is close to 1, I cannot justify spending it (although it would definitely have a positive effect on my technique). Why? Simply because I have this family thing going.

If, however, I could somehow justify buying such a guitar, if I could quell my conscience a bit, I may be able to pull it off.

Likewise, I value ED alpha. I technically have access to the amount of money I need to donate in order to join it. However, I lack an additional incentive (please see above).

You're proving to FD that you have the necessary desire and dedication to help them make sure that what they are building will work as they intend it to and that it will be an enjoyable experience to play.

Why would I want to prove anything to them? From where I sit, it's them who should be trying to prove something to me.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Why would I want to prove anything to them? From where I sit, it's them who should be trying to prove something to me.

Fact that you debate alpha price is a fact that they have proved everything to you

Anyway, it is going in circles. Early backing and extended early backing/upgrading has ended. There was tons of time to choose take part in alpha with lot of tasty perks. Not this chance is gone, line is drawn.

Let's just wait for beta as rest of us do

 

[SAB380]

Just for the record: I've pledged 350+€ to Dreamfall: Chapters, when they had no screenshots whatsoever, just an overall description of what they were intending to accomplish. I simply wanted to give that game & the people making it a chance to survive, this was my additional incentive in that particular case. ED is funded now, so this incentive is lacking.

Likewise, I value ED alpha. I technically have access to the amount of money I need to donate in order to join it. However, I lack an additional incentive (please see above).

Why would I want to prove anything to them? From where I sit, it's them who should be trying to prove something to me.

So because everyone else has already ensured Elite will happen, you need extra perks in order to justify participating.

Gotcha.

 

[vintager]

So because everyone else has already ensured Elite will happen, you need extra perks in order to justify participating.

Yes, exactly, with one minor correction: Frontier Developments also wants me to participate, hence the "Help support Elite" & "JOIN THE ALPHA" signboards. I get the vibe that people here are trying to make it look like they've already funded ED and the developers don't need any additional money whatsoever, but this just isn't the case.

ED will need additional money now and on all the subsequent stages of development, that's just how it works. In fact, they've already run into a few problems (regular ones, mind you, so there's nothing to worry about): e.g., planetary landings were postponed because of the sheer complexity of the task, the fact that also cost the franchise the support of Ian Bell.

It's no small feat that you got the game off the ground, and the pew-pew alpha utilizing an already stable engine looks good, but make no mistake: the main challenges for FD lie ahead. They're still hiring, and they will need more money.

 

[MortVader]

Stop the whining already.

We get it, that you don't want to spend your ££ on Alpha, unless you get your perks.

You are not getting your perks.

So either pay up and shut up.

or -please- just shut up.

Merry Christmas!

 

[OillyRag]

Frontier have said they have enough funding to develop the game for retail release.

Why on blue earth would you say that? For your information, there's a huge signboard at the top of the main page, It says "Help support Elite". If you have enough funding, why ask for support?

I'm simply repeating what Frontier has said

 

[vintager]

Stop the whining already.
-please- just shut up.

Merry Christmas!

Wow, quite a community you have here

For your reference:
- i'm just responding to other people's posts, it's not my fault the topic continues to be discussed;
- if you write crap and then add "merry Xmas" at the end, it's not going to make you or your post look more more intelligent.

Thankfully, some people here are actually quite well-spoken and rational.

 

[vintager]

I'm simply repeating what Frontier has said

Maybe you're right, only time will tell. I certainly hope you're right.

 

[Steve O B Have]

Keep it polite please - everyone is entitled to an opinion, as you're all entitled to rebuttal however telling someone to 'shut up' doesn't really count as constructive response does it?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Yes, exactly, with one minor correction: Frontier Developments also wants me to participate, hence the "Help support Elite" & "JOIN THE ALPHA" signboards. I get the vibe that people here are trying to make it look like they've already funded ED and the developers don't need any additional money whatsoever, but this just isn't the case.

No, it is really the case. For initial version ED is financed fully and more. As I have understand from FD announcements they have secured money from doing work on expansions at least part of them. You mistranslate "Help support Elite" as they really need money right now. No, they don't, but if you are willing, you can buy alpha/betas/copy of the game and expansion pass.

ED will need additional money now and on all the subsequent stages of development, that's just how it works. In fact, they've already run into a few problems (regular ones, mind you, so there's nothing to worry about): e.g., planetary landings were postponed because of the sheer complexity of the task, the fact that also cost the franchise the support of Ian Bell.

Ok, now you are talking nonsense imho First, I will repeat, FD doesn't need money *right* now. It has financing secured for finishing first portion of the game, trough crowdfunding, selling shares and contracting an investor. Sure, we are not financial advisers, it's FD own business how their money things are, but at no one point during post Kickstarter they have said they need additional money pronto. It was quite clear that all this post KS period they just were giving a change for people to join, which was used by 15k people.

Also FD running into problems? David himself has planned to do landing and walking as expansion *from* the start. First, it's manageable. Second, they get money for first partion for the game, they will get money from *retail* for expansions.

Also in what dream did you get Ian Bell doesn't support ED? They did have some conflict regarding Ian offering Elite for free on his web page (he didn't consult David on this, as it is their joint copyright) more than 10 years ago, but that was solved rather quickly. That has *nothing* to do with ED having no landings on release.

Chill out man. ED is coming and money is really not a problem right now. If you want to help, spread the word that such game exists. It helps much more than money right now.

 

[Andrew Sayers]

- i'm just responding to other people's posts, it's not my fault the topic continues to be discussed;

Nitpick: that only follows if you create less than one reply for every message you receive. It's essentially the same problem as the basic reproduction number in epidemiology. Might I suggest letting every second post slide, so as to let the thread gradually die out?

(incidentally, you'd be surprised how much kudos you get from bystanders just by not being the last one talking)

 

[vintager]

Nitpick: that only follows if you create less than one reply for every message you receive.

I welcome you to compare the number of my posts to the number of posts i've been replying to (all the previous pages included)

To make this job easier, here's a typical example of my post:
http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showpost.php?p=230969&postcount=86

This is a single post replying to 7 other posts, including one of yours. I would say the rule "less than one reply for every message" is fulfilled, if not exactly, than at least in spirit (read there's a couple of cases where I indeed responded to individual messages).

Or did I get you wrong and you actually meant leaving some of the messages unacknowledged?

Also in what dream did you get Ian Bell doesn't support ED?

Read it in a German article somewhere, will try to find it and post the link.

Here we go, that's not the original article, but still:
http://www.golem.de/news/elite-dangerous-raumstationen-schiffe-und-planeten-besuchen-1212-96386.html

"insbesondere David Brabens ehemaliger Kollege und Elite-Koentwickler Ian Bell kritisierte auf Kickstarter die späte Ankündigung kostenpflichtiger, aber spielverändernder Inhalte als unprofessionell"

For those of you who cannot read German, translation is as follows:

"in particular, David Braben's former colleague and Elite's co-developer Ian Bell critisized [in Kickstarter comments] the delayed announcement of non-free, yet game-changing content, citing this move as 'unprofessional'".

The comment the article links to has since been deleted; looks like the gentlemen are trying to quell it, probably on both sides. Still, the fact remains.

 

[Andrew_C]

I imagine Frontier don't want too many people in the Alpha because Alpha is a time when you really want good quality feedback about the game. By good quality I don't mean praise I mean people not just saying saying the game is broken but where it's broken and why it's broken. IMHO When you are selling Alpha access, the more people you have playing, the less likely it is you will get the good quality feedback you need.

As to extras, yes there could be more but others have said they have just opened the present store, and will probably add more stuff to it, and they also probably don't want to dilute the value of the deals they gave to early and Kickstarter backers.

Maybe they could sell virtual poster of David Braben in awesome sweaters to adorn your Cobra Ooh! and a whole range of bobbleheads for your cockpit!

EDIT

Also in what dream did you get Ian Bell doesn't support ED?

IIRC he made some comments in the Kickstarter comments about being disappointed by the moving of the landing on planets to DLC and the IPO (I also thought the IPO was a bad idea, myself). But AFAIK he's hasn't said anything else on the subject.

 

[Andrew Sayers]

Or did I get you wrong and you actually meant leaving some of the messages unacknowledged?

Yes, exactly that - people still posting in this thread have clearly made up their mind, so acknowledging them only forces observers to re-read arguments they've already seen.

And on a different point...

"in particular, David Braben's former colleague and Elite's co-developer Ian Bell critisized [in Kickstarter comments] the delayed announcement of non-free, yet game-changing content, citing this move as 'unprofessional'".

I seem to remember that turned out to be someone else that happened to be called Ian Bell (it's not a particularly unusual name). I've never heard a confirmed comment from the real Ian Bell about ED.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Still, the fact remains.

The kick starter allowed you to call yourself anything you liked - I referenced myself there as Liqua, same as here, however as I am sure you can guess that isn't my real name.

It should also be pointed out, as Andrew did, that "Ian Bell" is a fairly common name in the UK. (Not as common as say John Jones but hey ho!)

Magazines like to make drama out of nothing ...

Bottom line - to attract people to pledging £200 in advance, on good faith to enter the Alpha, FD (via the KS) offered some promotional perks. Now that the KS is over, they are funded, there is no longer any need to offer up any perks to join. If you really want to you can, FD will be thankful, but there is no incentive to do so other than your own desire. That isn't a slight against any new member, simply a fact.