Practically chasing people away from the game

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Well the title says it all.

I purchased the game for about $100 AUD, before it was released, so I could support the game and gain early access for what I have been anticipating since I stopped playing with my c64.

I also recommended the game to a number of friends, (people in my 'clan'), as we were looking for something new to play as a group, co-operatively and occasionally as adversaries, as we have done over the last 15 or so years.

As most of my friends could not gain access until the main release, I played with just one or two others with Early Access. I put up with the many resets that can be expected from a game in development, no problem with that. The move to online-only DRM was expected, but was a pity to see so many people being 'hood-winked'. I also put up with deteriorating quality of the community, the griefers, the forum heroes, the haters, and of course the care-bears as they are so affectionately called by this community.

Then I crashed my ship and lost lots of money. Yep, just like many others, all that hard work lost in an instant. I had read the many other threads from so many others, and always agreed that you need the insurance to pay for what you fly.. And I had the insurance, but after the crash it left me almost penniless in the scheme of things, and I lost many weeks of farming/grinding.

So it was time to put it down for a while, and I did, and played something else. My friends were a little baffled that I had stopped playing a game that I was raving about for ages. I had to admit that a terrible crash (which was my fault) had wiped weeks or months of farming, and I was essentially back to square one. Big deal huh?

So I thought I would have another look at it. But upon return I noticed a lot of changes. Firstly, the Mobious group had become infected by griefers that had a work-around from getting banned by conducting non-consensual pvp. (pvp goons you can stop reading here and blurt out the usual rubbish, and go read another thread). Secondly I noticed that an upcoming idea is about to be implemented; 'reputation' or 'alliance' will now decay, and all the work I had done will also be lost, putting me back to square one in that regard.

So here's the rub :
- Your 'punitive' game design regarding money/insurance/crashing (or being griefed) has wiped months of playing.
- Your 'punitive' game design regarding reputation decay will also wiped months of playing.
- Your gaps or omissions in coding and have allowed griefers to run rampant, in everywhere but solo play.
- Your control of the haters in the forums has made it a 'not very nice place' to read of an evening, full of vitriol and scorn, trolling and sarcasm.

But I get it, you are trying to exclude all players except for the 'Elite' who have hours to burn on this one game (and possibly not much real life 'work') and plenty of hatred to spread in forums and in-game.

Its ok I get the point, you want to make it "hard" for people to play this game. But not in the traditional sense of writing a game that is enjoyable but challenging, but more in a sense of making it difficult to get anywhere unless you have many hours to spend grinding away with most of the 'storyline' just being a figure of your imagination, and thick skin to deal with the monotonous loop of hater fanboys.

Stuff that. I have taken my experiences, your game mechanics, and some shining examples of the trolls that this community holds high, and explained them in great detail to my friends, clanmates, facebooks friends, steam reviews, and other usergroups I attend regularly. The result isnt very spectacular, but it is effective :

I definately stopped 9 people in my clan buying the game, based on my experiences. ( $900 AUD )
I only have 74 FB friends, only half of them are gamers, and only half of them would be into a space game, so lets say only 15 people heeded the message ( $1500 )
My steam review isnt trending, there are many other negative reviews so mine ust got lost in the roar, so not sure how effective this was, but just added a little more weight to the 'dont buy this game' argument.
I have also put you in the 'EA Games Category of unscrupulous or bad game companies' from which I will never buy another game from ever, and will sully your name and reputation for the rest of my life. No big deal, EA still has plenty of cash despite being universally hated, and FD does too.

So basically I have only 'cost' you $2400 in lost revenue, and possibly a little more, but that is hard to identify.

Big deal, who cares, you've got plenty of fanboys who love you and will troll me in your defence. Its ok, I already knew that. (see their troll comments below)

So I'm done, yes, this is another 'stuff this game im out' thread.


To the 10-15 people on this forum who were civil, nice, welcoming, had integrity and some self respect; thanks, but the game just isnt good enough, and the community is full of really bad people.


(Its ok I wont let the door hit my butt on the way out, its been torn off its hinges with the exiting traffic anyway)

My prediction is the game will be dead within 2 years, could be 3, not sure, but there are so many other well made games, full of content and challenges that your already struggling to compete with.

TLDR : Game is bad, community is worse, catchya later.


Thanks, but no thanks.
 
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OP - I don't share your point of view, I'm afraid. While the tone of the forum has deteriorated a bit since the early beta days (as was expected the happen when the masses flocked to the game), the forum is is still leaps and bounds more constructive than most other gaming forums - at least in my experience.

As for gameplay - I'm a distinctly casual gamer but have progressed slowly steadily, always flying with insurance, and focusing on fun over credits and ships. It's taken me over a year to get into a Clipper (only a Clipper!) and I'm having a grand old time. I also haven't come across the potty-mouthed PVPers you reference, but then I stay away from active griefer/murder zones. Perhaps you'd enjoy the game if you played it "differently"?
 
OP, I'm glad you listed your reasons for not continuing to fly. It certainly beats a generic "I quit, bye" post.


However, I'm not following your descent into listing the minutiae of how much money your dissatisfaction has "cost" the developer. Every individual is free to make their own choice, based on their expectations, impressions of the game, and their assessment of whether they think they will enjoy it.

I'm also not sure it's good forum etiquette to tar and entire community as "bad/worse", then infer that any comments to your (open forum discussion) post are from "trolls".


What you seem to have done here is start with a good bit of constructive criticism, but end up writing something rather negative and inflammatory yourself...

...which actually seems to be contributing to the very thing you seem to dislike, in terms of "community".



I'm sorry you crashed your expensive ship without insurance. That sucks.

I'm sorry you read that two or three pilots joined a PvE group, engaged in PvP and were immediately excluded. That sucks, but I think you might be blowing that somewhat out of proportion... in a private group consisting of seven to eight thousand players.


But I'm also sorry to read your thread's undercurrent of anger and vitriol, because the original post almost always sets the tone of the subsequent discussion:

The easiest way to promote reasoned, level-headed interaction online is to start with a reasoned, level-headed OP.


Fly safe, should you ever fly again!
 
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OP cares about the grind, and farming. Lost lots of money. Has a vague idea of changes coming and has a tantrum. Clearly is goal centric and wants end game and best uber ship ASAP.

There are so many people here who love the game, even with all the annoying features. If you don't like it, move on. No need to spread your insidious opinion to all your followers. Let them judge for themselves if they wish to. But if they are farmers and grinders like you, maybe they won't 'get' Elite either.

Your revenue stream will be sorely missed I'm sure, compared to the floods coming in via Steam and the majority of popular comments there.

Hope you find your happy place somewhere soon.
 
Thanks Kremmen, I will accept that reply 'as is'.

Perhaps I will clarify some things tho, since you were kind enough to respond 'normally'

-Yes it did start out well, but it did also descend because basically I feel ripped off. It 'was' a good game, despite the bugs, it 'was' exciting and all that, it just 'has become' dull and bland. Maybe thats the novelty wearing off, maybe I just got bogged down by the haters.

-Yes my tone does not help, and does add to the overall 'hater' attitude I find common in this community. Although somewhat subtle and hidden, its a surprise you managed to spot it amongst the usual rhetoric I find here. Well played Sir.

-You are correct, in order to promote reason and level headedness, I should too conduct myself in the same fashion. However, when addressing an audience of Klingons, you dont speak Romulan ;)

I will however disagree on the one or two pilots doing the wrong thing in the mobious group, since removed. I know of one who continues to grief unabated, and so far his 'work-around' makes him hard to catch. Its a great group, full of good players, good people, and there has been some good times with many random meets. Kudos to Sir Mobious as always.

My apologies if you feel your reputation is tarred by my 'troll' accusations. I do not mean to suggest that your disagreement with me means you are a troll. I am only responding to how I have seen so many countless posts of trolling those who say something bad about the game. The first person to respond, Katcon, disagreed also, and I repped him, as I have you, for a mature level headed response.

The choice to identify the $$ involved is not some veiled attempt at revenge, it is in fact a straighforward method of showing how some of FD's decisions will cost real money. The team, shareholders, bosses and others involved need to see what it means in real terms. Money is the only language that FD and its supporters will understand, and I just tried to quantify that. (its very little money to them in reality, but if 100 people also 'cost' them $2400, the FD might take a different direction. (might)

I now drive safe, playing GTA5, a game that is imminently more favorable to co-op play, despite having a few bugs. 'We' can actually play together, easily, which is not something I ever found with ED.

Marcus Kross you can have my stuff, but I cant be stuffed even logging in and flying to meet you, since I have uninstalled the game and have no intention of returning. Send me a pic of you giving $2 to a charity and I'll send you the login/pwd, at least some good should come out of this.

- - - Updated - - -

OP cares about the grind, and farming. Lost lots of money. Has a vague idea of changes coming and has a tantrum. Clearly is goal centric and wants end game and best uber ship ASAP.

And there you go Kremmen, case in point. Didnt take long. :)
 
Then I crashed my ship and lost lots of money. Yep, just like many others, all that hard work lost in an instant. I had read the many other threads from so many others, and always agreed that you need the insurance to pay for what you fly.. And I had the insurance, but after the crash it left me almost penniless in the scheme of things, and I lost many weeks of farming/grinding.

It would definitely be refreshing, if on your way out the door, you accepted the slightest bit of responsibility for your own actions. As an early adopter, you went into this eyes wide open, and still you only kept enough insurance to cover one buy back and that left you penniless? You didn't uncheck some of the equipment in your buy-back so you could have some money to re-establish yourself? Yet, you knew all of this going in. And somehow, Frontier Development is supposed to protect you from yourself, or else they are enshrined in the 'EA Games Category of unscrupulous or bad game companies' And when this community doesn't decide to participate in your pity party, we are the terrible people. And of course, FD is responsible for the actions of your 'group' as well.

There certainly is enough blame to spread around for your circumstances, but watch out when you spread it, you wouldn't want to get some splashed on you.
 
I also tend to agree somewhat with the sentiments of the OP. I belong to a large clan and followed many of my clan members to this game. Unfortunately I am only one of a few in the clan left playing. Most left disillusioned with the "grind/upgrade/grind/upgrade cycle and poor team dynamic. I have also lost a heap of cr with a loss of a ship through my own stupid fault. Aside from that currently I am finding the sim is becoming slightly pointless, community goals are a teaser for more grind grind grind. Trying to upgrade to some weaponry is like looking for a needle in a haystack. And the OP is right about griefers who dont care about anyone else but themselves, no its not BF4 where you just re-spawn with the same kit 30 seconds later..I am hanging out waiting to see if PP makes any difference.
 
Well eeps I'm sorry to see you cry so much , I thought you Aussies were made of sterner stuff. What a downer reading all your whingeing! I don't understand how on earth you thought Elite was going to be some kind of MMORPG, it was always crystal clear ED was going to take patience and guts to play, I'm sorry you lacked both I really am. I've played open 100% of the time for 7 months now and only ever saw 1 griefer, it's a big Galaxy out there! The Devs have and continue to bust their balls improving and adding to this game-yes it's just a game that thousands of people are happy with so why actively kill it to all your friends? "...and will sully your name and reputation for the rest of my life......" That has to be one of the most ridiculous statements ever made on these forums! Let people with with open minds decide for themselves. After playing hundreds of computer games for a third of a century since the C64, I can confirm ED is one of the greatest ever made-in my humble opinion. Enjoy your "farming", GTA and running around like a headless chicken-you deserve it.
 
Then I crashed my ship and lost lots of money. Yep, just like many others, all that hard work lost in an instant. I had read the many other threads from so many others, and always agreed that you need the insurance to pay for what you fly.. And I had the insurance, but after the crash it left me almost penniless in the scheme of things, and I lost many weeks of farming/grinding.

It would definitely be refreshing, if on your way out the door, you accepted the slightest bit of responsibility for your own actions. As an early adopter, you went into this eyes wide open, and still you only kept enough insurance to cover one buy back and that left you penniless? You didn't uncheck some of the equipment in your buy-back so you could have some money to re-establish yourself? Yet, you knew all of this going in. And somehow, Frontier Development is supposed to protect you from yourself, or else they are enshrined in the 'EA Games Category of unscrupulous or bad game companies' And when this community doesn't decide to participate in your pity party, we are the terrible people. And of course, FD is responsible for the actions of your 'group' as well.

There certainly is enough blame to spread around for your circumstances, but watch out when you spread it, you wouldn't want to get some splashed on you.

This. Just this.
 
What I would like to point out is that when you in your opening post already say that people on the Forum are trolls and people responding to your post are trolls it will probably provoke people to troll you. You get what you ask for.
 
Well the title says it all.
[snip]

Hi eeps

I'm going to agree with Captain Kremmen, you started off well. ;)

If I were you, I'd keep your login, just in case, it cost you a lot of money, and after a bit of a break you may just find you want to try again. Part of the problem that people can have with this game is just how addictive it can be, just how much time we find we have sunk in it, and then when something bad happens, it certainly isn't a pleasant feeling, it's tough to get over it.

Personally I agree with a few of your points. You used the term 'punitive', and at the moment, I also feel that some of the decisions that FD are making do just that, punish their players, essentially in terms of losing stuff that they have spent a lot of time to build up. I can't say that I think this is constructive, after all, I'm playing this game for fun. But I also think that in time they will figure out better ways to do things, it's a living game, changing while we play it. And unfortunately, right now they are trying to figure out how to 'punish' players using exploits to ruin the game for others, and probably just using too big a brush.

As to the forums, yes, there really are some very opinionated posters, but people are people, and Internet anonymity emboldens some. It annoys me when I see posts accusing players of cowardice, and not being 'man enough' for PvP, and all the rest of that trash, and then I realize that those posters are saying way more about their own inadequacies than anything else. They can't help it, they can only say that stuff online.

You're angry and feel let down, that much is quite obvious, but to have that strong a reaction, the game must actually mean a bit to you, so like I said, keep your log in, go and do something else for a while, then when the urge takes you, come back and head for the stars.
 
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Well since I just joined Mobius I certainly hope this isn't the case.

x_x

Reading the forum is like watching a News Channel. It distils and amplifies all the nasty things in the world. I've been playing in Mobius Group for quite some time now, and I have yet to meet one of these PVP gatecrashers.
 

Ian Phillips

Volunteer Moderator
Well, the OP has certainly had some of their points confirmed.

Closed for moderation actions.
 
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Sir.Tj

The Moderator who shall not be Blamed....
Volunteer Moderator
The thread was cleaned up and re-opened. Please be constructive, otherwise do not reply to the thread
 
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The first part of OP is quite constructive and understandable.
Unfortunately, it is your own fault that your losses were so significant to you due to the crash, which was your fault as well. You said that you read many threads about this, however, you did nothing to prevent it. Why?
Definitely, you should have insurance, but it is obvious that if you are a trader you should have much more than a single insurance to be able not only to re-buy your ship but the commodities to continue trading as well.
If your cargo costs 4M Cr, insurance 3M Cr and you have 3.1M Cr, why did not you think of how you are going to continue trading in case of the disaster?

Then you post about the griefers. So what? These were not the griefers that caused your problems. It was you. Why have you even posted about them as they are not related to your crash. It is also obvious that with a large number of players some of them are the griefers. But is that different from the real life? Do you want to say that everyone in the real life abides the law and do not commit the crimes? Unfortunately, this is not the case. And in case you encounter a griefer - use the report player option. This way FD are going to deal with this situation.

How is Mobius group different in this aspect? It is not different at all because it becomes very difficult to control everything when the group becomes larger and larger. This should have been expected. It was unavoidable.
How to deal with it? Griefers are usually active in the systems with the highest player population. So you either need to learn how to evade or avoid them. One of the solutions might be to avoid such systems completely if you cannot handle yourself. And this is not different from the real life - you avoid the dangerous regions.

Reputation decay... is it really a problem? Have you even know what does it mean and how was it realised? Your post clearly shows that you did not even try to understand anything of it. It looks like you have only read the patch notes and started thinking that you know everything. You even did not understand what the patch note said. Reputation decays from the extreme to less extreme, i.e. if you are allied and do nothing to support the faction you will become friendly with this faction, and at this point your reputation will stop to decay. Is it bad that you are friendly? Moreover, it should work both ways, i.e. if you are hostile you should become unfriendly in some time.


And then the second part of your post begins. Here you complain about the game and community, and about your efforts to bash the game. You posted that the community became worse, and at the same time you say that the whole community is bad and full of trolls. How are you different from that part of the community now? There are a lot of Forum members that are helpful, constructive etc. You have called them bad as well. How are you different from that now? You have insulted the large part of the community. So you yourself have descended to the worst part of the community you were talking about.

And aren't you trolling the others yourself:
Big deal, who cares, you've got plenty of fanboys who love you and will troll me in your defence. Its ok, I already knew that. (see their troll comments below)

There is no game that would please everyone as everyone has different tastes. You did not like the game - it is Ok. But there are plenty of people who enjoy it as it is. We understood your opinion. But again you showed yourself from the worst side, which is "if I did not like the game - no one should like it, no one should buy/play it".
 
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I don't agree in your assumption that the game will be dead in two years. With several updates to come a majority will still be playing. Sorry for your loss, but that is the game mechanics, and always has been with elite. Try to be less angry, after all its only a game, and anger is not good for the physiology.
 
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