Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].
- Thread starter Robert Maynard
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Candy Crush Saga!
Rocket Jockey?
The "best" one that managed to climb to the top is League of Legends.
Its nothing new or groundbreaking. But developed and published by Riot Games, a small company that nobody actually knew before LoL, the game became a huge success. Its easy enough for casuals, but still have enough room for hardcore gamers and competetive gaming. This game followed some simple rules: regional servers, pure server=client connection. easy gameplay but deep mechanics and math behind it, nonstop pvp action (and pve aka stupid bots to test things and get your first levels ingame). And the cheap price or a nice f2p mechanic supports the "easy" entry. And to keep the crowd pleased, they release content pretty fast, in small pieces and then do a big patch, changing the "season". They tweak the balance every couple of weeks, pump out hotfixed instantly. If something is buggy, it will be disabled withhin hours.
But it has some drawbacks. The community is toxic as hell, the pvp progress is a bit random and the most popular game mode with always throw 3 random guys at you, its called solo/duo and you can take only one of your friends with you into a 5v5 match.
And this is just one game. Many other games and mods, pretty small and simple, became legendary in the competetive gaming world. Counterstrike anyone?
But to stay on topic:
More people, way more, would make PvP interesting. A huge player base is needed.
So how can we get more people into open without forcing them into and without insulting any solo player?
Higher rewards for higher risk? More content revolving around fighting each other, not slaughtering NPCs, higher rewards for player kills in warzones etc? So people who play in open, will get more money, but the risk is higher to actually lose money.
We had some attempts at small tournaments before. Sidewinder only and whatever. But this was community based, with a price being paid in cargo etc. Not what a healthy pvp community is expecting in 2015...
So any ideas how to bring it to life without crippling the existing game modes and keep the balance between them?
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Robert Maynard
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Angry Birds / Bad Piggies....
and both have same simularities to Elite like an apple to a banana....
Nice post, totally agreed.
War Thunder is a good one (100,000+ people online at once, each day). Hearthstone, LoL, DOTA are all simple to start but have super challenging gameplay later on - that keep people playing because it's FUN to master and a real challenge, winning is SUPER rewarding.
For War Thunder as an example, very easy to get in and play, you've got arcade/realistic/simulator
But to master? It takes forever - it's a fun challenge, learning, getting better etc.
When i started playing War Thunder simulator battles, i think i got like 5-50 kill/death ratio in online. After months of practice, using the exact same planes, equipment - just my skill improved. I turned that k/d right around.
Now that's fun.
In Elite? There is no skill involved, no competition - nothing
To win CG/powerplay/make most money?
Click solo, trade spam until my eyes bleed, or kill NPCs. Anyone who wants to win a CG, will do it in solo because it's so much faster.
Open play is dead because of this - there is a handful of people who just gank every one else because PVP is so unbalanced - but everyone else is grinding in solo because it's just simply so much faster. (less risk, more npcs). It's a two sided attack, PVP is unbalanced and Solo is super easy.
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You know, become legendary in the competitive gaming world probably is just not what they wanna do. And why should they? Nothing about this Games caters to competive Gaming, its not designed for that and why do you even compare it to a Moba? Makes not a lot of sense.
I really don't understand you, its like looking at the Witcher 3 and moning that its not like CoD (a silly example, i know, but thats a silly situation here so it works). Witcher 3 never wanted to be like CoD, and Elite never wanted to be like LoL or any other Game like that.
open play is 'dead' cause of them ..we can agree on that...so glad to see u finally had the clear mind and find the REAL problem of open
open play is 'dead' cause of them ..we can agree on that...so glad to see u finally had the clear mind and find the REAL problem of open
Yes i know pvp is unbalanced because Frontier have no idea how to balance pvp
but also, solo is very lucrative even for open players.
I am an open-only player at one point, but i HAVE to play in solo to be able to compete.
My favorite part about solo, is the fact i can kill 20 new players and than drop to solo as soon as i am being "hunted". What amazing game design.
(From last page, your post)
My War Thunder example is a bit more on point than his LoL one - Because both are flying "simulators". You can almost call Elite's instanced combat in pvp the same as a WT battle/dogfight
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isnt the balance the problem...pvp never will be balanced anyway in every game lol ;p
im sure if some how the bad apples that kill every one on sight got baned or transfered to their personal mode open prolly will have more people ...
w/t is same only to fly sim part though ...still better example from lol or cod though ;p
How did I not know about this !!!
PvP balance is hard to achieve, specially if the game changes and more content comes in. But other developers try it at least and work around the balance problem. To be balanced we will need only one ship with the same modules for anyone. And even then some people will have an advantage like a better connection (lower ping, no packet loss etc), better hardware whatever.
And i`m sure if this game had a nice pvp part, many people would actually play it.
The problem is, there are not many flight games with competetive gameplay behind it. MOBAs are just a good example how a simple game with no special idea behind it can entertain so many people. What is a moba? You jump into an symmetric arena with a couple of other guys and fight for objectives. No storyline needed, just a nice balanced combat and good mechanics.
The game landscape has changed and people want something different. Mobas are popular, but become boring after a while. Other games offer the same competetive expirience, but so far only shooter, mobas, RTS (not so many) and fighting games managed to become legendary and popular, so popular that e-sports managed to pull millions of people into it.
isnt only unbalanced cause dev changes ...is other issues too
for example i play with mouse+keyboard and isnt good against hotas ...is too many parametrs on that u should consider too
Yes, it has changed a lot but not in a way that everybody wants the same, its quite the opposite.
What happend when Kickstarter took off and Early Access and all that stuff is that the variety in Games got bigger, not smaler. Yes, there is a market for competitive Gaming but its by far not the only one and its not the one Elite Dangerous wants to go in. ED would probably be focuesed around competition if it would have been financed by big publishers, what they didn't wanted so did they go to kickstarter because they wanted to do what you see now.
And as the Kickstarter campain proofed already: There is a market for this Game, otherwise it would not even exist now.
So again, I don't understand you. Your argumentation does not make a lot of sense, there are plenty other markeds ED could have been designed for that would have a bigger potential in Sales (A F2P Mobile Game for example) but that has nothing to do with ED. There is nothing wrong with making a niche Game, would be horrible world if we wouldn't get niche Games like ED.
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it seems to me that a dedicated pvp arena would actually solve a lot of issues.
it could be within..., but seperate to the rest of the galaxy,
so if you want it, you can have it, and it wont affect anyone elses game.
it would satisfy those who want hardcore action, and i think to an extent it will make open
a safer place for people to fly in. i have said before that imo the main reason
why there is needless killing in open, is because there is no outlet for pvp.
i do appreciate arguments on both sides,
but to be fair,
the game is listed as an MMO.
it is called Elite Dangerous
and the trailers would seem to suggest a bit of action going on.
so where is it?
as i say, a dedicated PVP area would solve the issue.
i am hoping that when the game is released on xbox one,
that open mode will be much more populated.
not only that xbox one has a function to record gameplay
so evidence gathering will be much easier!
i do have a concern that even though the game has multiple modes
it currently isnt catering for everyone.
solo players are happy enough..., so are private groups
PVP is lacking.
i hope it gets sorted out because it people will eventually switch to other games to get their fix.
and whatever our opinions are, surely we all want the game to do well?
it could be within..., but seperate to the rest of the galaxy,
so if you want it, you can have it, and it wont affect anyone elses game.
it would satisfy those who want hardcore action, and i think to an extent it will make open
a safer place for people to fly in. i have said before that imo the main reason
why there is needless killing in open, is because there is no outlet for pvp.
i do appreciate arguments on both sides,
but to be fair,
the game is listed as an MMO.
it is called Elite Dangerous
and the trailers would seem to suggest a bit of action going on.
so where is it?
as i say, a dedicated PVP area would solve the issue.
i am hoping that when the game is released on xbox one,
that open mode will be much more populated.
not only that xbox one has a function to record gameplay
so evidence gathering will be much easier!
i do have a concern that even though the game has multiple modes
it currently isnt catering for everyone.
solo players are happy enough..., so are private groups
PVP is lacking.
i hope it gets sorted out because it people will eventually switch to other games to get their fix.
and whatever our opinions are, surely we all want the game to do well?
noone said that pvp arena was bad idea ;p
Well the "arena" design is going against the open world idea of the game.
What about open pvp AND dedicated combat zones where killing a commander is actually "worth it", worth the risk that you take compared to the NPC flying the same ship?
Believe me, a game with huge battles in space, a true MASSIVE multiplayer space sim would work and the core audience, the young one, would love it. Movies are pretty popular and just think about all the film fans enjoying huge battles in space.
Elite can be all that with some minor changed (minor but expensive and hard to implement!).
I expected the p2p solution and the 32 player limit to be the first step on the way to a full server=client connection with regional servers, supporting the open play where we can meet ANYONE in the system, interact with them without "loading screens" (the transition between supercruise and normal space is just that!) and allow more ways to interact with more people at the same time.
I miss the MASSIVE feeling in the multiplayer part here. And its not possible with the current system...
dont mix that with the open...that can be used for tournaments and etc...
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