Speed limit is way to low and unfair

[Zplintz]

The new ramming trick is using a sidewinder and suiciding into anybody moving faster than continental drift. The station lasers then blow the victim up.

This wouldn't be an issue of the speeding threshold were raised to a more reasonable 200

If you aren't speeding when near other ships it isn't an issue. It is yours (and my risk to take).

200 is too high because at that speed ships start blowing up.

Played all night. Going through slot at sub 100 and boosting towards the slot or away at over 100. No issuea.

So simple a mechanic, virtually no downside and introduced for clear and understandable reasons. Starting to think this can only be the people that previously spent their game time ramming other ships (either intentionally or accidentally) that are complaining?

 

[Zplintz]

What is do special about the arbitrary 100 value? It was pulled out of thin air. Many who bother to comply with it find it agonizingly slow.

It also does nothing to stop ramming. You can spend a short time trading or bounty hunting to finance an afternoon of ramming.

Because you are unlikely to blow up ships at under 100. It wasn't pulled out of thin air at all.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I don't ram people purposly but the fact that if I go a SANE speed and accidently hit someone I'm then blackslisted from that system for a full WEEK is insanity. When you can be blacklisted from a system for a week due to ONE accident then its a speed limit.

You are not. Only when you kill someone by ramming you get bounty. You get fine when you are getting hull damage.

 

[Spider95]

Is not to low or unfair.

Minor gameplay adjustment for the greater good IMO!

(\(\;;/)/)

 

[Zelos1983]

If you aren't speeding when near other ships it isn't an issue. It is yours (and my risk to take).
200 is too high because at that speed ships start blowing up.

It isn't. 200 is a reasonable speed for going inside the station. Most people don't want to sightsee.
If you ram another ship and get blown up, then it should be your fault. Which it was before the update.

So simple a mechanic, virtually no downside and introduced for clear and understandable reasons. Starting to think this can only be the people that previously spent their game time ramming other ships (either intentionally or accidentally) that are complaining?

It's the opposite. The new mechanic has no upside, but two downsides: it adds grind and tedium due to the speed limit and removes the fun of ramming ships. Which isn't a problem, since you are usually not affected by that if everyone stays in solo mode. And for PvP mode - the people consent to being subjected to other people's actions.
Clearly that shouldn't be an excuse to add tedium to the solo part of the game.

So again: It has to go.

ummm, there's no disadvantage either... It was implemented to help reduce people ramming inside of stations purposely.

The speed limit literally changes absolutely nothing when it comes to docking into a station, unless you happen to hit another ship. How hard is that to grasp?

Keep you eyes open, don't be a clueless pilot, and you'll be just fine.

See above - it only has disadvantages. People ramming other people inside of stations is not and never has been an issue. If people don't want PvP, then don't enable PvP inside the stations. Leave the rest out of it. Period.
And due to the bad NPC AI, they ram other ships quite often - which was only a problem if you didn't have shields or were in a small ship. At a certain ship size, it doesn't matter anymore when NPCs get stuck on your windshield. They often come down in the middle of the slot without looking or evading other craft.

So we had a perfectly good mechanic and now have a mechanic that again increases the danger inside of spacedock.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

What if I'm in combat with someone and I ram them, on purpose or not, do I get fined/bounty?

Very relevant question!

There is another change in v1.3, closely related to the "station No-Fire-Zone" speeding liability mechanism.


Outside station NFZ areas, FD has applied the speed-check/liability-decision code to do something else. If you destroy a ship in a collision, while going over 100 m/s, you now take responsibility for that kill.

Before, you never did. Before, you could ram someone to death anywhere, any time, and the legal system would ignore it.


Note that this does a lot more than the speeding-in-station liability thing...

1. You can now get a verified KILL of a WANTED ship just by ramming, and claim a bounty, if you hit it going over 100 m/s.

2. You can now get a murder rap if you kill a CLEAN ship just by ramming, and become WANTED, if you hit it going over 100 m/s.


So, with #1, you can now fly your Lakon Type 6 straight through that pesky WANTED NPC (or inattentive WANTED player) in the Sidewinder, kill him, and get paid for it by the bounty fairy.


tl;dr

Ram-killing someone when going over 100 m/s = assumed intent to harm = responsibility for the consequences.

- - - Updated - - -

It isn't. 200 is a reasonable speed for going inside the station. Most people don't want to sightsee.
If you ram another ship and get blown up, then it should be your fault. Which it was before the update.

No, it wasn't.

 

[Armchair]

It isn't. 200 is a reasonable speed for going inside the station. Most people don't want to sightsee.
If you ram another ship and get blown up, then it should be your fault. Which it was before the update.






It's the opposite. The new mechanic has no upside, but two downsides: it adds grind and tedium due to the speed limit and removes the fun of ramming ships. Which isn't a problem, since you are usually not affected by that if everyone stays in solo mode. And for PvP mode - the people consent to being subjected to other people's actions.
Clearly that shouldn't be an excuse to add tedium to the solo part of the game.

So again: It has to go.



See above - it only has disadvantages. People ramming other people inside of stations is not and never has been an issue. If people don't want PvP, then don't enable PvP inside the stations. Leave the rest out of it. Period.
And due to the bad NPC AI, they ram other ships quite often - which was only a problem if you didn't have shields or were in a small ship. At a certain ship size, it doesn't matter anymore when NPCs get stuck on your windshield. They often come down in the middle of the slot without looking or evading other craft.

So we had a perfectly good mechanic and now have a mechanic that again increases the danger inside of spacedock.

Well said.

The new system doesn't add anything to the game and failed at its goal to stop griefing. In fact, it spawned a new breed of griefing by making the kamikaze sidewinder a thing.

 

[Petersen]

People ramming other people inside of stations is not and never has been an issue. If people don't want PvP, then don't enable PvP inside the stations. Leave the rest out of it. Period.
And due to the bad NPC AI, they ram other ships quite often - which was only a problem if you didn't have shields or were in a small ship. At a certain ship size, it doesn't matter anymore when NPCs get stuck on your windshield. They often come down in the middle of the slot without looking or evading other craft.

So we had a perfectly good mechanic and now have a mechanic that again increases the danger inside of spacedock.

And global warming's a myth, right? Just because you say something isn't/wasn't an issue doesn't mean it wasn't (spoilers: it was).

It only increases danger if you're a bad pilot and/or you speed. So I suggest you Lrn2Play and QuitCherBreaching.

And it's been shown how dangerous higher speed collisions are in this very thread (but feel free to keep your head stuffed firmly in the sand). 100 m/s is the appropriate speed limit. If you're a good pilot and aware of your surroundings, you can travel whatever velocity you like. I do. If you're bad, then don't speed. It really is that simple.

 

[bossbrigand]

Well said.

The new system doesn't add anything to the game and failed at its goal to stop griefing. In fact, it spawned a new breed of griefing by making the kamikaze sidewinder a thing.

You can't get griefed if you're flying slower than the speed limit...

 

[Armchair]

You can't get griefed if you're flying slower than the speed limit...

They just ram you the old fashioned way. These are griefers we're talking about. They have nothing better to spend their credits on. They don't care if station security blows them up. They pay their insurance fees and laugh about how much more their victim lost.

The system does absolutely nothing whatsoever to stop a griefing rammer that is able and willing to pay his insurance fees.

 

[Zplintz]

It isn't. 200 is a reasonable speed for going inside the station. Most people don't want to sightsee.
If you ram another ship and get blown up, then it should be your fault. Which it was before the update.






It's the opposite. The new mechanic has no upside, but two downsides: it adds grind and tedium due to the speed limit and removes the fun of ramming ships. Which isn't a problem, since you are usually not affected by that if everyone stays in solo mode. And for PvP mode - the people consent to being subjected to other people's actions.
Clearly that shouldn't be an excuse to add tedium to the solo part of the game.

So again: It has to go.



See above - it only has disadvantages. People ramming other people inside of stations is not and never has been an issue. If people don't want PvP, then don't enable PvP inside the stations. Leave the rest out of it. Period.
And due to the bad NPC AI, they ram other ships quite often - which was only a problem if you didn't have shields or were in a small ship. At a certain ship size, it doesn't matter anymore when NPCs get stuck on your windshield. They often come down in the middle of the slot without looking or evading other craft.

So we had a perfectly good mechanic and now have a mechanic that again increases the danger inside of spacedock.

Sorry to be so blunt but that is such a load of tosh that I don't think even you believe a word of it.

For a start if you rammed a ship and you blow them up, there never was any blame.

It has nothing to do with AI or PvP. It was put in place to reduce the effect of accudental and deliberate ramming by players without having to magically turn off any kind of damage in and around a station.

 

[Sandmann]

Seriously when going at the speed limit you move at a crawl

It's not a speed limit, it's a responsibility limit. You're not responsible for collisions you're involved with if you're travelling below a certain speed. As long as you don't hit anyone you're can go as fast as you like. In fact even if you DO hit someone you don't actually get fined for speeding, you get fined for hitting them.

 

[Zelos1983]

And global warming's a myth, right? Just because you say something isn't/wasn't an issue doesn't mean it wasn't (spoilers: it was).

Nope, it wasn't, as stated above. You failed to provide any counterargument.

It only increases danger if you're a bad pilot and/or you speed. So I suggest you Lrn2Play and QuitCherBreaching.

You are obviously not a person who docks/undocks frequently. Please at least have a look at the game before you make such comments.

Sorry to be so blunt but that is such a load of tosh that I don't think even you believe a word of it.

Ok, I understand you are running out of arguments and therefore switching tactic.

For a start if you rammed a ship and you blow them up, there never was any blame.

That's wrong. You had to pay your insurance bill and the loss of cargo.

It has nothing to do with AI or PvP. It was put in place to reduce the effect of accudental and deliberate ramming by players without having to magically turn off any kind of damage in and around a station.

And what they did is now the opposite: They increased the effect of accidental ramming and removed deliberate ramming as a game mechanic, thus impacting player experience. As you could have read in the posts before, this was not an issue. Only NPC ramming is, and it remains an issue now because you don't get your insurance/cargo back when an NPC rams you to death. Player ramming has always been on a consent basis.

 

[excalibus]

keep in mind that unlike the real world, the consequences of hull damage from a collision at speeds as low as 200 m/s in elite can be wiped away as easily as filling up your gas tank.

if you destroy the other ship, which is what happens with a T9, Python or Anaconda doing 200 m/s into a stock sidewinder then you get a bounty which lasts 7 days at the system due to the bounty value for murder...

This has been tested voraciously by a couple of commanders...

 

[lolanon]

What speed limit?

 

[Zelos1983]

What speed limit?

100m/s within the zone. So either fly slow or be prepared to pile on fines and bounties for NPCs crashing into you.

 

[excalibus]

It isn't. 200 is a reasonable speed for going inside the station. Most people don't want to sightsee.
If you ram another ship and get blown up, then it should be your fault. Which it was before the update.

No 200 m/s is quite unreasonable if you hit someone as you will destroy a stock sidewinder at that speed (tested and proven)

If you ram another ship and you get blown up it is indeed your fault, if the other ship is doing over 100m/s at the time then they are also at fault, if ramming the other ship and THEY blow up its now your fault . No it was not this way before the update... Prior to this update, you could ram another ship and blow it up without any consequences... Now you have to face them.

It's the opposite. The new mechanic has no upside, but two downsides: it adds grind and tedium due to the speed limit and removes the fun of ramming ships. Which isn't a problem, since you are usually not affected by that if everyone stays in solo mode. And for PvP mode - the people consent to being subjected to other people's actions.
Clearly that shouldn't be an excuse to add tedium to the solo part of the game.

It actually does not add tedium to the game that I can tell, I never once slowed down from boosting into a station or OUT of a station in the beta, I got fines for shield and hull damage to other ships and the occasional bounty when I killed some ship that flew in front of my boosted anaconda... pfft... NPC's are actually much better at avoidance with their improved AI and I think I only killed a couple of small ships while boosting yet I managed to boost out through the slot with orca's, t7's and so forth coming in with only fines for damage...

See above - it only has disadvantages. People ramming other people inside of stations is not and never has been an issue. If people don't want PvP, then don't enable PvP inside the stations. Leave the rest out of it. Period.
And due to the bad NPC AI, they ram other ships quite often - which was only a problem if you didn't have shields or were in a small ship. At a certain ship size, it doesn't matter anymore when NPCs get stuck on your windshield. They often come down in the middle of the slot without looking or evading other craft.

So we had a perfectly good mechanic and now have a mechanic that again increases the danger inside of spacedock.

Its good advantage is now serial station rammers suffer the consequences and the suicidal sidewinder is really a low threat, keep and eye on your radar, if you see a commander ship coming towards you, slow down to 99 m/s and you will be golden... Again this has been tested quite a lot....

 

[CaptainKremmen]

Someone please call me when this thread needs more actual facts and hard evidence.

Until then, I'll assume that the current and referenced facts and evidence are sufficient for reasonable readers to digest, in order to make up their own minds.


Please note that sentences like, "People ramming other people inside of stations is not and never has been an issue" don't qualify as needing more facts and evidence. That's just obvious trolling, and will be ignored.

 

[lolanon]

100m/s within the zone. So either fly slow or be prepared to pile on fines and bounties for NPCs crashing into you.

What zone? I've been out exploring for the past month or two so don't know what's been happening in civilised space. Is it at star ports?

 

[excalibus]

100m/s within the zone. So either fly slow or be prepared to pile on fines and bounties for NPCs crashing into you.

please show real test results to back up your claim of NPC's crashing into you? The NPC AI is actually a lot better at avoidance (not 100% perfect sure but they are definitely noticably better at trying to dodge you... I have seen it first hand where ships have began to veer away when an impact is imminent and if it was not for my own actions (boosting) they would have missed if I had not boosted into them...

- - - Updated - - -

What zone? I've been out exploring for the past month or two so don't know what's been happening in civilised space. Is it at star ports?

within the no flre zone of space stations