Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Robert Maynard]

"Rare and meaningful" is a completely subjective term, some find pvp "common, but meaningful", others find it "extremely rare/non existent and meaningless", who is correct there?

My idea while making pvp more common will also give it meaning. It can easily be argued that merits can provide extra meaning.

It is indeed subjective.

If, however, changes were introduced to incentivise PvP (as opposed to PvNPC) then there would probably be more players that preferentially prey on other players - that hardly gels with "rare" does it - unless, of course, Frontier consider that there's not enough PvP in the game.

 

[DaggerSnake]

Wow! I love looking at this thread grow. I've always kind of been leaning toward a need to separate the saves, but I'm kinda not feeling that so much anymore. There are good arguments supporting keeping it, and frankly we have no number data to compare and contrast anything.

At the end of the day the OPEN, GROUP, SOLO only really impacts a few players :
Players who want to be Pirates and NPC marks just don't cut it
Bounty Hunters who want those big scores on Pirates where they can't hide
Guns for Hire in Combat Zones who want to fight humans rather than NPCs
Meta Gamers who are convinced that they can be undermined without being able to defend (which I don't think happens)
Player Killers (I don't think they get a say either way as they break the spirit of the game)

Everyone else, (I'm in this group) is fine just switching back on forth. This forum is a pretty tiny sample of the player base. Is there a way to see how many different names contributed?

I don't think the PvP and PvE terms that everyone is so fond of throwing around work with Elite either. There is one game world and it has rules. The same rules apply to NPC and Players. You commit a crime and you have a bounty, then you're someones payday. Elite doesn't care if you are an NPC or a player collecting or receiving a bounty. If you are a trader, the Elite doesn't care if you are interdicted by a NPC or a Player. Elite won't call the whambulance to save you. There is only one player vs ... and that's Player vs Elite. Luckily the modes are a filter that mitigate the danger somewhat (but the NPC's are getting better). But if you travel in OPEN, you are fair game just like every other ship. I've always just looked at those hollow markers as chaotic and devious AI that give the game spice. When I enter a system with a hollow marker, I keep my guard up and my eyes on their ship and radar. One weird move, and I'm out. I suck at fighting, but I do like the excitement of escaping.

OPEN or SOLO, NPC or Player, its just PvElite and it's a dangerous galaxy.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

It is indeed subjective.

If, however, changes were introduced to incentivise PvP (as opposed to PvNPC) then there would probably be more players that preferentially prey on other players - that hardly gels with "rare" does it - unless, of course, Frontier consider that there's not enough PvP in the game.

Indeed.

Npcs will still be easier prey so they would still have their place.

 

[Flavourless]

Wow! I love looking at this thread grow. I've always kind of been leaning toward a need to separate the saves, but I'm kinda not feeling that so much anymore. There are good arguments supporting keeping it, and frankly we have no number data to compare and contrast anything.

At the end of the day the OPEN, GROUP, SOLO only really impacts a few players :
Players who want to be Pirates and NPC marks just don't cut it
Bounty Hunters who want those big scores on Pirates where they can't hide
Guns for Hire in Combat Zones who want to fight humans rather than NPCs
Meta Gamers who are convinced that they can be undermined without being able to defend (which I don't think happens)
Player Killers (I don't think they get a say either way as they break the spirit of the game)

Everyone else, (I'm in this group) is fine just switching back on forth. This forum is a pretty tiny sample of the player base. Is there a way to see how many different names contributed?

I don't think the PvP and PvE terms that everyone is so fond of throwing around work with Elite either. There is one game world and it has rules. The same rules apply to NPC and Players. You commit a crime and you have a bounty, then you're someones payday. Elite doesn't care if you are an NPC or a player collecting or receiving a bounty. If you are a trader, the Elite doesn't care if you are interdicted by a NPC or a Player. Elite won't call the whambulance to save you. There is only one player vs ... and that's Player vs Elite. Luckily the modes are a filter that mitigate the danger somewhat (but the NPC's are getting better). But if you travel in OPEN, you are fair game just like every other ship. I've always just looked at those hollow markers as chaotic and devious AI that give the game spice. When I enter a system with a hollow marker, I keep my guard up and my eyes on their ship and radar. One weird move, and I'm out. I suck at fighting, but I do like the excitement of escaping.

OPEN or SOLO, NPC or Player, its just PvElite and it's a dangerous galaxy.

Nice post, thanks. Pretty much my view too. Rep.

 

[Seonid]

At the end of the day the OPEN, GROUP, SOLO only really impacts a few players :

Indeed. I've played in Open since Gamma, mainly as a Trader with sidelines in smuggling, bounty hunting and the occasional assassination for rank progression. My trade rank is currently Tycoon with 47% to Elite, I'm Allied with the Federation and the Empire and Friendly with the Alliance. All of this was achieved in Open, so can somebody please explain to me how the players in other game modes have affected me in any way?

 

[CreepyD]

Powerplay related activities should only be allowed in Online mode..

I certainly understand why people might disagree with this, but here's my argument..

Powerplay is a competitive addition to the game.
Everything about it is designed to encourage interaction between factions and players.

I was thinking that I could really get involved more - how about I go and 'defend' a system we are preparing?
It was VERY close in preparations to the enemy, like 105k to 100k at one point, so it seemed like a nice idea to discourage the enemy from preparing that system by force.

But what's stopping them just preparing it in offline mode? Nothing.
What's stopping me undermining the enemy in offline mode with no players able to stop me and take me out? Nothing.

This would be like playing capture the flag where the enemy can be completely invisible and untouchable.
They could walk into your base, take your flag and carry it home without you being able to do anything about it.

Therefore all PP related actions should be only available in Online only mode.

What do you think?

 

[Roybe]

In before merge!

 

[CreepyD]

Ah crap there's another thread? I couldn't find one

 

[Flavourless]

This again?
Open, Group and Solo are the same game. Only difference is who you get matched with (if the matchmaking even works).

 

[CreepyD]

I don't agree, and I haven't seen a thread about offline mode in this fashion.

Once people can co-ordinate better, what's to stop them mass rushing a system ALL in offline mode on purpose?
What if there's nobody to match against as they are all in offline mode?
How can you defend against that?

I'm not at all against offline mode - only for PP which is clearly an online competitive thing.

 

[Beetlebum]

I don't agree, and I haven't seen a thread about offline mode in this fashion.

Once people can co-ordinate better, what's to stop them mass rushing a system ALL in offline mode on purpose?
What if there's nobody to match against as they are all in offline mode?
How can you defend against that?

I'm not at all against offline mode - only for PP which is clearly an online competitive thing.

There is no offline mode...

 

[CreepyD]

Yes I know that.. Offline as in I can't shoot them!
a la my CTF example.

I asked for that calling it offline mode. You know I mean Solo mode

So you're saying someone is perfectly free to fly into my territory as an enemy and be completely untouchable - I can't attack them?
When Powerplay is involved and that's the whole point of it?
I don't think it gets any clearer than that.

 

[Robert Maynard]

What do you think?

I think that you would have been better to add to the thread within which your thread has been merged.

That and the fact that DBOBE has stated that Powerplay is for all modes.

Also, as others have already pointed out, all game modes are online - simply different settings on the matchmaking system - and we all share a single galaxy - as will console players when the Xbox One and PS4 versions arrive.

 

[Jockey79]

Yes I know that.. Offline as in I can't shoot them!
a la my CTF example.

I asked for that calling it offline mode. You know I mean Solo mode

So you're saying someone is perfectly free to fly into my territory as an enemy and be completely untouchable - I can't attack them?
When Powerplay is involved and that's the whole point of it?
I don't think it gets any clearer than that.

Please read the first and third posts in this thread - it will cover all your points and follow up questions.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Yes I know that.. Offline as in I can't shoot them!
a la my CTF example.

I asked for that calling it offline mode. You know I mean Solo mode

So you're saying someone is perfectly free to fly into my territory as an enemy and be completely untouchable - I can't attack them?
When Powerplay is involved and that's the whole point of it?
I don't think it gets any clearer than that.

Do you intend to play 24/7?

Can you guarantee that your ping times to anywhere in the world are going to allow you to be instanced with any other player who may be in the same place?

What happens when there are more players in the vicinity than a single instance can handle?

It's not just Solo / Private Group players that cannot be opposed.

.... and then, as I said earlier, we will share the single galaxy with console players but probably not be able to crossplay with them - therefore their effects on the galaxy cannot be directly opposed.

 

[Jockey79]

Do you intend to play 24/7?

Can you guarantee that your ping times to anywhere in the world are going to allow you to be instanced with any other player who may be in the same place?

What happens when there are more players in the vicinity than a single instance can handle?

It's not just Solo / Private Group players that cannot be opposed.

.... and then, as I said earlier, we will share the single galaxy with console players but probably not be able to crossplay with them - therefore their effects on the galaxy cannot be directly opposed.

This is why the thread should remain a stickie - As I did note the comment "couldn't find a thread on the topic", and it has been a day since the stickie was removed.
Whoever unstuck it owes us an explanation

 

[cryon1cang3l]

"Ask" being the key word there. And I believe Robert has been posting the reply a couple of dozens of times. And your reaction to that is to ask again. And again. And again. At what point do you feel your request has been denied and simply move on?

Bottomline is: you made an assumption. I don't know what you based it on besides a gutfeeling, but the important fact here is that it was an assumption on your part, which I bolded for clarity sake. That assumption turns out to be wrong. And instead of thinking, maybe I should not have made that assumption, lesson learned and move on, you're arguing extensively for Frontier to change the game to meet the requirements in your assumption.

Are you able to own up to your mistake? Do you have the introspection that this situation you find yourself is, at least partly, your own doing?

Like i said, i know that games change, pretty hard, sometimes its 180° change and will drive some of the old customers away.
And as you can see, i`m not the only one complaining about p2p, so our only chance is to keep the theme up and show that there is a point behind our request. It will improve multiplayer expirience, solo players would not notice any changes.
I like this game, but there is not much to do in the late state (when you got enough money for your ships and rebuy) and we have to do something to make it better.
I dont like dropping games, specially the expensive ones (and ED was expensive, compared to anything that i paid for in the last 2 years - mostly because i stopped preordering and day 1 shopping and now i wait for sales and patches - so i get a working game with a nice price tag).

 

[Robert Maynard]

Like i said, i know that games change, pretty hard, sometimes its 180° change and will drive some of the old customers away.
And as you can see, i`m not the only one complaining about p2p, so our only chance is to keep the theme up and show that there is a point behind our request. It will improve multiplayer expirience, solo players would not notice any changes.

I very much doubt that Frontier will change the networking model from P2P/Server-Lite to a full-on Client/Server model now - especially as they have ruled out monthly subscriptions.

The game requires to make a profit for Frontier for it to continue to exist - significantly increasing server costs will reduce that profit - which may, in turn, reduce the long term viability of the game.

Re-writing the netcode for the game would also require a significant investment in design, development, testing and deployment - which would further eat into potential profit (or would detract from development of other elements of the game) - this would be a noticeable change (by the absence if feature introduction) for Solo players.

 

[DaggerSnake]

I don't agree, and I haven't seen a thread about offline mode in this fashion.

Once people can co-ordinate better, what's to stop them mass rushing a system ALL in offline mode on purpose?
What if there's nobody to match against as they are all in offline mode?
How can you defend against that?

I'm not at all against offline mode - only for PP which is clearly an online competitive thing.

It more about two sides working the numbers against each other. The SOLO vs OPEN doesn't matter when both sides are just playing through the sumulation for the results at the end of the week. A side that is organized and gives people tasks and roles for them to do either solo or online will always come out on top. That is how it should be.

Instanced battles, while good for some fun won't impact the numbers game....I think.

I'm still confused by power play, I think I'll fly around a bit more.

 

[Seonid]

And as you can see, i`m not the only one complaining about p2p, so our only chance is to keep the theme up and show that there is a point behind our request..

And roughly 2 years later, how is that going for you?