Python or Fer de Lance
- Thread starter Shadowma
- Start date
I am not sure, I think a fer-de-lance can use its initial larger shield value and ram the python to bypass all of those SCB's, but it wouldn't work if a python has upgraded bulkheads. However the bulkheads on a python are expensive, and the general consensus is that bulkheads do not help with sub-target damage mitigation. So it will most likely be that the majority of pythons you encounter will have light bulkheads.
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I think, that you can full speed ram a python in a fer de lance with 4 pips to shields and survive. If you use this as your shield burst tactic, line up your 'alpha' strike fire with weapons, then ram, you may both have your shields down, but loosing shields at the same time will hurt the python more. If it fails, fleeing from a python is no problem.
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Upgrading bulkheads is pointless, alpha striking through the python or the FDL is nearly impossible unless of major pilot error, of course its possible for the FDL to win when SCBs are involved its just unlikely, all my comparisons tend to assume people are asking for somebody of similar skill, large discrepancies almost universally support the higher skill party unless the ship difference is enormous.
I do like your suggestion of ramming though, what your describing there is exactly how I used to kill the other pythons in the pre 1.1 godship, and is way underused, already suggests a pilot skill difference to me though - for example in your own case unless you can't translate your ideas to actions i'd say your already far ahead of a majority of players.
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What I meant with bulkheads, and correct me if I am wrong, is that military grade bulkheads provide about 20% damage reduction from ramming over light weight bulkheads.
they apparently do but I really don't like the large drop in speed and the large increase in buyback, the only thing i'd run armour on is reflective on smaller ships with rails (works fantastically as a pain in the backside), sorry I kept editing and adding things to my post lol I just tend to ramble and add things as i go.
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FDL Cannon appears to have some love lately. The dang thing fires upwards now if you're close enough. https://youtu.be/ucFhInVCC0o?t=35
Python does more things than the FDL, but the FDL has the gundam like fun factor in combat.
reverse + thruster directions are your friend, only ship that you should have a genuinely hard chance getting infront is the vulture with a competent pvp pilot, for those your probably best off resorting to jousting. It does steer like a pig, but thats its tradeoff for having enormous frontload really.
No idea about turrets, they seem to buff and nerf them every patch and I really dislike not having control of my weapon powerplant, as persephonius mentions above your trying to get a good alpha strike to deal with scb's, that usually requires the highest dps + proper fire control, two things turrets don't do. If you use turrets your settling for weathering your enemy down, which could work in principle but I really don't have enough experience with to make any suggestions.
What I mean is you shouldn't always add them all together, shields + all SCB charges because that can not show the whole story. You could fit a load of SCB, equip a very low grade shield and although you have an 'effective' shield value of several thousands, it doesn't matter if the initial shield can be voided in 5 seconds.Again, my point was purely down to arithmetic, as I was challenged on my arithmetic
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I was basing my posts from this: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=137188
I am not sure if this is out of date though?
In a straight out slog, SCB heavier ship with a large enough initial shield as a buffer would be at an advantage, of course.
But if there's enough firepower (for example, you face multiple attackers who are in range and all shooting) to void your shields quickly, the five seconds to arm the SCB can be too long, especially if you aren't on a particular high value when you activate it.
Python needs 4 pips to do anything other than sit and tank.
Thats one of the major advantages of the FdL. Even with zero pips its still fast and maneuverable
Mine doessn't seem to do the same.
Boosters aren't very useful if you have to turn them off to use SCBs, almost completely defeats the purpose of equipping one or the other.
Not that anyone actually flies an FDL with six boosters.
I've defeated many a CMDR who still had SCB charges remaining when his or her ship exploded.
Total shield strength as a function of shields + SCBs can be an important metric, but it's not universally applicable. SCBs take time to use, and if you have crap loads of SCBs, you typically cannot power them all simultaneously, which can introduce further delays.
There is a balancing act between shield strength and SCBs. Sacrifice too much of the former and you leave your shields vulnerable to collapse if your opponent can deliver sufficient damage in the five second window SCBs take to activate. Sacrifice too much of the later and total usable shield strength is needlessly low.
I didn't bend your words and I apologize if it appeared this way. I made as much sense of them as I was able to given the context they were in.
The fact that your argument makes even less sense after your correction/elaboration is on you, however.
We were not talking principles, we were talking numbers
Not the relevant ones.
Again, my point was purely down to arithmetic, as I was challenged on my arithmetic
No one challenged your arithmetic, just your logic, your tactics, and your presumptions.
Numbers don't mean a thing if you lack the experience and talent to leverage them.
If I know a Python has SCBs, I always attempt a ram early in a 1v1 engagement (no need if I out number the python, and too risky if I am outnumbered myself), preferably when I have cause to believe my opponent has moved pips away from SYS. I'll make like I'm retreating, give it opportunity to fire at me a bit, then flip around and boost into the Python, moving 4 pips to sys and timing my own SCB charge to go off a moment before I hit, while emptying my entire WEP cap at point blank range. If it works well, my opponent has lost shields while mine are still almost full and I have SCBs remaining. If it doesn't work well, I burn another SCB charge, drop chaff, heatsinks, take evasive action and disengage.
Ramming is kinetic damage, anything that reduces kinetic damage reduces ramming damage.
However, this only applies to hull, and all that needs to happen to make your entire loadout of SCB nothing but dead weight for a significant period of time is for you to lose shields before you can use them.
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By the way, I've been looking to upgrade out of my Vulture for a bit and I've wanted to try the FDL (Especially since the Python's fuel consumption seems to have increased a lot) but I'm having trouble finding a place near Alioth that sells one. Anyone know if any are for sale without having to travel 100+ LYs?
That's more than 100 Ly from Alioth.
There's a list of locations on the wiki: http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Fer-de-Lance
No idea how up to date it is though.
Often this is the case, which is why we concentrate on one target at a time...need to overwhelm their ability to absorb damage and whichever side can engineer such a defeat in detail wins.
Sometimes it does turn into a battle of attrition, where small mistakes accumulate overtime, and the one who racks up the most finds him or herself without any SCBs, or chaff, or railgun ammo, or whatever, left.
Agreed. And if you really want visibility, get a Clipper or an Anaconda.
Though it is kind of funny considering that the FDL is a dedicated combat ship. You'd think visibility would be a priority.
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Thanks for the info!