Piracy is Broken by 1.3
- Thread starter GluttonyFang
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What they said...
I'm not a pirate, but the 20T limit is nonsense, either Kremmen or Zinzaemon's solutions are fine answers. The OP is correct, piracy is a valid choice in the game, now it's probably unworkable.
I'm not a pirate, but the 20T limit is nonsense, either Kremmen or Zinzaemon's solutions are fine answers. The OP is correct, piracy is a valid choice in the game, now it's probably unworkable.
Just to clarify: was the 20T thingy causing lag only/mainly in station due to players dropping way too many canisters? Or does it significantly impact the game generally speaking?
If it is only/mainly a problem around station, what about implementing the 20T limit only around star ports? So pirates could keep doing their job, while stations would remain lag free. No?
If it is only/mainly a problem around station, what about implementing the 20T limit only around star ports? So pirates could keep doing their job, while stations would remain lag free. No?
Thank you for relating to our pain.
To be honest: it was exactly like this in Frontier and First Encounters. I also don't see why this is not an offense - it even makes sense after all.
Accidentally jettisoning the cargo is to me a sign of a bad key mapping, something I fixed for myself already. The default is really strange.
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I also feel like the 20 ton limit is quite asinine.
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Smuggling, piracy and mining. All advertised as possible and more importantly, BALANCED with the other professions.
Yet even this latest update where they seemed to try to fix it, they made some minor improvements to mining, made smuggling work and then broke it again (seriously? how hard is it to tweak in small amounts?) and gave pirates cargo drones that don't work while moving (which should be fixed, and might well be yet), but simultaneously put this utterly stupid 20 cargo limit in.
FD, honestly, I want to support you and your game, but you make it REALLY damn hard...
Yet even this latest update where they seemed to try to fix it, they made some minor improvements to mining, made smuggling work and then broke it again (seriously? how hard is it to tweak in small amounts?) and gave pirates cargo drones that don't work while moving (which should be fixed, and might well be yet), but simultaneously put this utterly stupid 20 cargo limit in.
FD, honestly, I want to support you and your game, but you make it REALLY damn hard...
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Just wanted to state my support that the number of containers in instances should at least be increased to 100! With only 20 canisters in one instance, piracy is dying...
40-50T from a T7 is about 20-25%, depending on the loadout. Little high maybe, but not unreasonable. Not sure what a T9 can carry as I've never owned one.
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Of course it should be up to the player who is playing as a pirate to decide what to ask for, and right now it stinks that you have an artifical 20T limit. But a pirate should be aware that the greater the % of cargo he is demanding, the greater the chance he will be told to swivel. As people keep on moaning, it's not that hard for a dedicated trader to make the money back. Traders are in the exact same boat. Too many pirates asking for too much and the traders are just saying "No, increase your bounty. At least that'll feed some of the BHs out there." and then they're either moving to a different set of systems, or they're going solo out of frustration. Either way impacts your enjoyment of the game, but why should you enjoying the game have a negative effect on my enjoyment of the game?
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True, I don't have the first clue as to how much it costs pirates in repair bills yanking other ships out of SC, paying off fines [and previously bounties too]. But don't forget, when you are levelling 'massive profits' accusations against traders that the traders can be paying as much as 9K/T and many are hoping to get 1K/T profit on that Where as pirates don't have the inital cargo outlay and can sell at 9K/T and get probably around 8K/T profit [especially if the trader submits and gives cargo]. A lot of the time, traders can't even escape as pirates are generally in bigger ships and mass lock things up to an Asp. And again, I get the whole 'Rare' trading means traders don't have such outlay and the profits are huge, but that's why they are more likely to be targetted by pirates. Pirates seem to have gotten the same misapprehension that surrounds shopkeepers in the real world. People don't just hand us this stuff and say "Go make some money", we have to pay for it first. And any shopkeeper worthy of the name, knows that business involves some 'shrinkage'. That doesn't mean that they just sigh, say "Oh well, it's part of life, I suppose." and carry on regardless. They want to do as everyone does. Maximise their pleasure, and minimise their pain.
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I don't like playing solo myself, kind of makes the whole 'online, persistent universe' thing a bit pointless, if you ask me. But traders are getting hit by NPC pirates, and player pirates. There is no way to limit the damage to the traders as we can be hit by an NPC, then a player, then another player, ad nausium. I give you 20T, then the next guy takes 20T of what's left, and so on. How long is it before I'm making a loss? And how many traders do you see continuing when that is a factor?
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I wonder how the playerbase is devided? What is the percentage of players that are explorers? What percentage bounty hunters? What percentage miners? (Bet that's a low one!) What percentage are traders, and what percentage are pirates? I bet the percentages are off. I bet that there aren't enough full time traders to keep a decent supply up for the pirates. Even I'm not a full time trader, and I'm working my way up past the rankings quite quickly. But trading is boring. Anyone can slap some cargo racks on a ship and move "Biowaste" from one place to another. At least when I'm out of the bubble I can see some of the most wonderful sights in the game. And excessive pirate activity is one of the things that generally keeps me out there [because there is none out there. Even IF I saw a pirate that far out, I don't have cargo to take, so why would you bother me?
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Sorry, bit of a 'stream of consciousness there. Didn't meant it to come out as a rant, because I am basically on your side in this. As I have suggested, capping at a percentage - providing the percentage was set correctly - would give traders a bit more confidence that they wouldn't lose it all in one trip [although the risk that they'd drop cargo and then still get destroyed is still there.] whilst allowing pirates to make a decent stab at improving their lot in the game. maybe keep the 20T max around stations, but there should be no need in deep space.
As I've said in the other threads I don't think it's intentional to nerf piracy but pure incompetence on FD's part.
They obviously don't play the game like players do so they just picked a number that their shoddy p2p architecture could handle in stations and went with that. The problem with canisters staying in the instance is still there due to p2p and can be exploited for infinite cr (if you want to stay and scoop the same 10t of cargo in a station instance) it just doesn't lag people like it does if large numbers are dropped.
I say we give fd a week to sort this out (or give official comment other than "it's intended") and then take action the only way we can. Get every pirate and pirate group to indiscriminately murder ever trader they see for as long as it takes FD to sort it out.
FD haven't taken the beta bug reports seriously and have closed the post release bug report saying it's "intended behaviour". Any pirate related threads seem to get trolled or buried on the forums so they don't get the attention they deserve. The murder of a thousand innocent traders and the resulting noise it would cause on this forum and reddit should make fd take note. Change your piracy binds to tell the traders why they're dying (in protest of the cargo limit) and let loose.
Whilst I'm happy a lot of normal players and traders are agreeing with us that the cargo limit is broken and it's bad they would suffer unjustly at the hands of angry pirates I believe it's the only course of action left to draw attention to the issue. Nothing creates noise like the tears of traders.
They obviously don't play the game like players do so they just picked a number that their shoddy p2p architecture could handle in stations and went with that. The problem with canisters staying in the instance is still there due to p2p and can be exploited for infinite cr (if you want to stay and scoop the same 10t of cargo in a station instance) it just doesn't lag people like it does if large numbers are dropped.
I say we give fd a week to sort this out (or give official comment other than "it's intended") and then take action the only way we can. Get every pirate and pirate group to indiscriminately murder ever trader they see for as long as it takes FD to sort it out.
FD haven't taken the beta bug reports seriously and have closed the post release bug report saying it's "intended behaviour". Any pirate related threads seem to get trolled or buried on the forums so they don't get the attention they deserve. The murder of a thousand innocent traders and the resulting noise it would cause on this forum and reddit should make fd take note. Change your piracy binds to tell the traders why they're dying (in protest of the cargo limit) and let loose.
Whilst I'm happy a lot of normal players and traders are agreeing with us that the cargo limit is broken and it's bad they would suffer unjustly at the hands of angry pirates I believe it's the only course of action left to draw attention to the issue. Nothing creates noise like the tears of traders.
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Wow the "fix or we murder" thingy seems a bit extrem. As a bounty hunter I fully approve 
Wow the "fix or we murder" thingy seems a bit extreme. As a bounty hunter I fully approve
It's extreme but what other option do we have? Bug reports and beta testing don't work and multiple threads don't work.
As bounty hunters you too should see the danger of this awful limit, no pirates = no bounty hunters
Piracy was already lacking in profit and 1.3 was supposed to bring hope with the drones but the opposite has happened.
A scorched earth policy could be the only thing to get FD's attention.
Wow the "fix or we murder" thingy seems a bit extrem. As a bounty hunter I fully approve
Nah then they'll slap a limit of say, 1 BH per instance ;0)
But it is the artificial construct that's the problem, if piracy was such an issue, why don't traders wing up or have the option of hiring NPC (or human) as escort? (alright the traders won't buy, or space is too big etc) The better alternative is to have the station clear up cannisters inside and say, within the no fire zone...and drop the 20t limit.
As usual FD have put a half fix in. Imagine the outcry if they limited traders to 50t of a certain cargo type (rares style for normal commodities) or bounty hunters a limit on how many vouchers they could carry.
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Yes, nice to see you here
I indeed didn't know it, and was wondering, too, why so much of it was exploding. Just wanted to start my own thread to complain about this ridiculous limit, when I found this one
I was looking forward to doing some piracy this weekend, because I didn't have much time to play this week and they finally released the tools us pirates have always missed so badly (cargo drones), just to find out they made them useless at the same time.
I'm just glad you didn't start firing at my stationary ship without hardpoints deployed thinking it was me making them explode! I could see some pirates who don't know about the 20 limit possibly getting confused by that and reacting to it.
And even though someone else complained that asking for more than 10% is a bit much, I don't agree. I actually would have been fine with the 40 units requested even though I was carring just 228 total, because its not like we get pirated every single journey. In fact yours was the very first time I've been interdicted after countless hours and months playing, so I do actually feel for the genuine pirate players in this regard.
i dont pirate, but wouldnt it make sense to work with a friend in a t6 with drones or something similar. then just have your target drop 5 loads of 20
There's multiple problems with this.
1. You have to have the trader wait and scoop all 20t before you can get them to drop a 2nd lot.
2. If you shoot someone's engines out they carry on at the same speed as they did when they lost thrusters. By the time you have scooped 20 the trader would be miles away.
3. If you pull over a large trade ship in a wing you want more than 20t and with multiple players waiting around for a drop it slows the game down for everyone.
how long does it take to drone up 20 tonnes of cargo if you have a stationary target? and if the target is running then i guess he would rather die than give up the goods
Most pirates have ships big enough to carry 100 tons of cargo, that's not an issue. The problem is, traders aren't going to want to wait around for 10 mins while you slowly take their cargo. They just want to drop and go. Making them wait around increases the chances of them changing their mind and running or just logging out of the game.
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Hahaha... the idea of Frontier is basically to RESTRICT YOU FROM GIVING OTHER PLAYERS something of your cargo. They want you to keep being monotonic, sticking to monotonic 24/7 grinds. That's the reason ;D
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