I have massive amounts of sympathy for the true pirates, its stupid and needs reverting.
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The Powerplay discussion thread.
- Thread starter Matt
- Start date
1st day pp dropped i stopped playing in solo/group. Signed upto ALD went and found a group who also supports ALD and been having a blast since.
Done 3-4 prep runs peppered with undermining.
You realise u get 15 merits per kill when undermining dont you?
So if you're bored waiting for timers to count down heres a tip. Dont wait. Yup thats right theres nothing stoping you from leaving the station going to an enemy control system and shooting some of their ships. Guess what, you can the return to one of ure own control systems cash ure merits in (played right this could be a few hundred) pick up some more preps, drop them off and then do it again.
But of course sitting in a station has to be the only thing you can do while waiting for the prep timer to count down. I mean its absolutely unthinkable to use your own initiative and actually go out and do somthing for the half hour your waiting. Like wheres the signs that say you can go out and RES hunt or Undermine or crime sweep. Where the onscreen prompt to tell you that you dont have to wait!!!!
So after 3 days of you sitting looking at timers on screens, wailing that its soo boring and that it doesnt hit u up with a few million in credits. It didnt click that YOUR the problem not the game. NOOO instead you have come and spouted some tripe about how its boring and osnt making you rich.
Unfortunately PP isnt a get rich quick scheme tho 50 mill a week for rank 5 isnt a small payout. You have to decide what your going to do to support the power. The game doesnt prompt you, you have to use a bit of the grey matter. Though judging by the posts in this forum theres not alot of that in use.
Done 3-4 prep runs peppered with undermining.
You realise u get 15 merits per kill when undermining dont you?
So if you're bored waiting for timers to count down heres a tip. Dont wait. Yup thats right theres nothing stoping you from leaving the station going to an enemy control system and shooting some of their ships. Guess what, you can the return to one of ure own control systems cash ure merits in (played right this could be a few hundred) pick up some more preps, drop them off and then do it again.
But of course sitting in a station has to be the only thing you can do while waiting for the prep timer to count down. I mean its absolutely unthinkable to use your own initiative and actually go out and do somthing for the half hour your waiting. Like wheres the signs that say you can go out and RES hunt or Undermine or crime sweep. Where the onscreen prompt to tell you that you dont have to wait!!!!
So after 3 days of you sitting looking at timers on screens, wailing that its soo boring and that it doesnt hit u up with a few million in credits. It didnt click that YOUR the problem not the game. NOOO instead you have come and spouted some tripe about how its boring and osnt making you rich.
Unfortunately PP isnt a get rich quick scheme tho 50 mill a week for rank 5 isnt a small payout. You have to decide what your going to do to support the power. The game doesnt prompt you, you have to use a bit of the grey matter. Though judging by the posts in this forum theres not alot of that in use.
That's just the thing-- We're not talking about 'large numbers of gamers' who find the game boring. We're talking about those gamers who don't get the idea of a sandbox game in which you do what you want to, when you want to, for however long you want to do it. Personally, I would wager that most of the players who buy Elite get the notion of a sandbox game...for example, Minecraft is a hugely successful sandbox game and 'large numbers of gamers' got the idea of that game. If you get the idea that you're not being forced to do anything in Elite and that there are no victory conditions, you'll enjoy it enormously...and if you don't happen like this sort of sandbox, well, there are others. You can always go play them
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I understand the frustration, but let's try to respect the other profession and not derail the thread. You do convey a valid point, though.
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I just wanna let GluttonyFang(OP) know that I really appreciate the work he has done to raise a bit public awareness of this problem. It made my day when I first saw that I was not the only one aware and upset about this 20 limit. It gave a little hope.
There is a lot of great ideas for the FD to scan if they need some input from this thread.
I hope this subject will be raised soon by FD soon.
+1000 if I could
Thank you, I hope FD just leave a one liner that they acknowledge the issue and will fix the issue in question, and we can all go and have rum and call it a day. For a pirate, staying sober for so long isn't healthy, heh.
Haha, talk about being willfully obtuse.
Is a sample size of 0.1% fair representation?
Can you draw any conclusions from such a small sample size and use it as a basis for extrapolation?
Any conclusions drawn from such a small sample size can only be applied against the numbers that voted, otherwise it is clearly misrepresentation.
Surprised how many actually enjoy PP. I guess forum is one big echo chamber.
Some more so than others... It's also true that you can only play the game if you have internet access because you have to download it (even with the box set you need the updates), but it's still a valid point - being a forum based poll COULD bias the results by it's very nature, however unlike your example there's no reason to think that either people who like or dislike powerplay are more or less likely to be forum users or to answer online polls so it's reasonably safe to assume that it's fairly representative. The results are also backed up by the number of threads complaining about PP or vs the number of threads praising it. None of this is is definitive of course, it's only intended to be representative. Even acknowledging that fact though and allowing for error margins, 34% and 14% approvals still must be concerning for FD.
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At least the poll has results, your assumption of 0.1% is completely unsupported. The estimate of 500,000 backers is only a guess as FD haven't released the figures, and that doesn't include any estimation of the number of people who've lost interest completely. What sample size do you think they use for US federal elections vs the size of the population?
Yes, you can get 15 merits for doing all this hard work...
[video=youtube;Qm5WQwfcoGc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm5WQwfcoGc[/video]
So it's mind numbimly dull. Some might even call it a bit of a grind...
And consider if you blow up 100 ships (100 x 15 = 1500 merits), that will mean a bounty/fine well over 600,000CR to pay.
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The concept of PP is pretty good. Having the option to play it is also good. Does it need some tweaking? Of course. So far, I've enjoyed partaking in it as part of my game play. If I don't want to do it, I don't, if I do, I do. People whinging about it in general think it's the only thing to do or think it's totally broken, neither is the case. Improvements should be made, but that comes with constructive feedback, which we sadly seem to be lacking from some of the more vocal doom and gloom merchants.
Yes you statistically can. 735 votes on an estimated 500.000 backers gives an error margin of 4.75% with a 99% confidence level.
What does this mean: let's say we perform this survey 100 times. In 99 out of 100 times we take this survey, the results would all be within 4.75% of the current results.
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FD believe that you can, and I do hope they're listening.
As example, I backed to a level that entitled me to a 'I backed ED', Tshirt. FD put up a poll to change this to a polo without any slogan. Without announcement that I ever received, somewhere in the Backers forum which I rarely visit. A small group of people then voted on whether I would receive a tshirt or not, after I'd paid. Go figure! Now theres a real grasp of the community you're in.
What I feel is the solution here, communication.
-FD, please, come clean and tell us what your plans are. If we were told PP is just a stepping stone, I personally would feel much better about it. I want to know the dream in the Dev Diarys I brought into is still alive.
Over 700 responses is statistically relevant as it was freely available to most of the player base it is highly likely it was an accurate cross section of the community as a whole. It is not about the percentage of responses from the population as a whole, but about the number of responses compared to the amount of expected deviation in the responses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size_determination
It's not obtuse, it's maths.
EDIT: Changed colors because they were difficult to differentiate + added a free pony for those don't like the results. Why the pony? I like that pony.
After 735 votes the preliminary results of the Powerplay poll are here.
View attachment 44461
With the current number of votes, and the poll closing in a day it is VERY probable that the results won't change significantly. Discuss
I've not bothered to read all the discussion in this thread, but I have to say, that since you don't know the demographic of the users of this forum, or the participants of the poll compared to the demographic of the total number of Elite players, the results of the poll are pretty much useless for drawing any conclusions at all about Elite or power play.. As Mark Twain once said, "There's lies, damned lies, and statistics."
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Your view/opinion is of course fine...
However, prior to PP's release I was concerned all it might introduce was an orchestrated grind. ie: Simply giving people the same grind mechanics as they used to do, simply rebadged to now add a bar graph to show their efforts. Was this concern founded? IMHO it was.
If we consider PP was the supposedly the biggest update to ED yet, I'd have to suggest that if that effort had instead been put into more general flight/exploration content/depth, and more importantly far more involved/tiered missions, IMHO the game would have been a far more interesting place to spend time in.
As it is, I've tried PP, got bored stiff basically doing the same grind mechanics that made me stop playing the game X weeks ago, so I'm actually going to stop playing PP.
The ONLY facet of the game I'm now enjoying is the fact you can go to Military Strike Zones and pretty much guarantee finding other CMDRs there for some PvP combat. But as far as I'm concerned this could have been introduced by any number of other methods without the need for the Powerplay.
So IMHO, I'm very frustrated so much time and effort has seemingly gone into a pseudo board game which really does nothing to really add better gameplay content, but just ingrains a grind mentality into the game even more firmly.
Where is all the interesting missions/content? Where is all the emergent gameplay?
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Right... because 18th century authors are known for their accuracy when judging mathematics in the 21st century.
Could you please stick around the forum instead? Something terrible is bound to happen when a deadly skelton of a white knight in a space suit suddenly starts solving world peace...
Too busy in PP to be voting on pointless poles.
But found time to comment on a thread about said poll
If you have a reasonable reason to believe the demographics of the participants in the poll are significantly different to the demographics of the people on this forum or who play the game, then you could question the poll, but I can’ think of anything other than speculation.
And although you’re right in that the results are not a guarantee of the overall player base’ opinion, they are statistically extremely likely. People who find out their opinion is in the minority have a tendency to attack the validity of the data.
You see it all the time in referendums and elections. Those supporting a stance expected to lose claim polls are never accurate, and then when they do lose they start to attack the reasoning of those that voted the other way.
Of course you can find historic examples where polls were incorrect, but they almost always turned out to be a skewed sample group or over complication in the questioning, or the Bradley effect. None of which apply here.
The famous first poll by telephone in the US a prime example. They only polled those who had phones, which at the time meant they only polled the richer population. There are no ED players who don’t have internet or access to the forum.
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I played minecraft for a long time with some buddies. ED is not a sandbox like that is a sandbox. Polls and the like seem to suggest more people are either uninterested in PP or actively dislike it, than enjoy it, and there are a lot of threads about grinding and boredom. I appreciate you're going to say things like "vocal minority" etc. but of active forum members, it feels to me that there are a good proportion who believe the game lacks a lot in terms of content. Given that is all we have to go on, I think it's fair to say that your assertion that we're not talking about reasonable numbers of people is even less reliable and intuitive than my anecdotal justification for asserting the opposite. Not that there's any point arguing about it. The truth is, no one really knows numbers. If you want to believe that people complaining are a minority who just don't know what a sandbox game is supposed to be though, go right ahead.
The problem with ED as a sandbox is that there isn't enough to do. Minecraft effectively created infinite possibilities using generic building blocks (literally and figuratively). ED has no such flexibility. Mechanics like trading, piracy, bounty hunting, are very shallow. You have seen it all within a few hours. Where is the sense of experimentation?
And, while we're on the subject, who says ED is purely a sandbox game? Who decided that? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the DDA contained a lot of stuff which wasn't just sandbox oriented. The game has missions and instanced "scenario" areas (res, cz). These are not features of a sandbox game. PP is not a sandbox mechanic either. So, whilst elements of ED are sandboxy, others aren't. Thus, "it's a sandbox" is not an appropriate counterpoint to people who are bored because they don't feel they have enough interesting things to do. Indeed, this is yet another version of "you're doing it wrong".
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You dont pay bounties off anymore m8. My galactic wide bounty is just over 300k. I havd nearly 3000 merits at least 2000 of which were done undermining.
My reply was to the op. You dont have to wait for timers you can do what is illustrated in that vid.
I can see in the vid the agressor is either a Hudson or winters aligned as the hauler didnt come up as ENEMY. The same thing when i look at other imperials. Thats likely to have taken merits away.
How about peole understanding the game mechanics. .. you know read the manual. FEDS need to get out of their systems and head into empire space in open play. That certainly wouldnt be boring