The Powerplay discussion thread.

[SerrinTheElf]

Powerplay Weapon Unlocks question

Hey everyone

Quick question, does anyone know if the weapon unlocks you get by getting to rating 3 with a faction are permanent even if you leave that faction or defect to another one?
Has anyone tried this yet, or has any information on it?

Thank you, anyone who replies to this

 

[Hacker#451563]

Poll just proves a big chunk of people never try anything for themselves, and dislike making thier own minds up.

It proves you have no clue what a poll is.

 

[TheLoneTrucker]

Y'know, as entertaining as they are none of these attempts to pull apart statistics and polls has any relevance to the simple fact that there's a large percentage of players who don't enjoy powerplay - the poll was simply an attempt to quantify it. You can paint the statistics any colour you want, but the fact that it's not well accepted doesn't change. Who wants to go on arguing precision within statistics, and who'd prefer to move on and start trying to work out how to FIX the damn thing?

Would like to see it improved too. But i don't want to see FD just completely backtrack and get rid of it.

 

[RosaMaus]

Since we already know that the majority of Elite players don't use the forum, it follows that there must be a reason for the disparity between total game users and total forum users...it's self-evident. Now what that reason might be, I don't know-- do you?

Nope, sorry. All we have is a guess at the number of people who bought the game. For all we know, most of them may well be inactive, and only the ones that do play do visit the forums.

edit: What's really worrying is that this debate about sociometrics is actually more interesting then PP...

 

[Matt]

Yes you statistically can. 735 votes on an estimated 500.000 backers gives an error margin of 4.75% with a 99% confidence level.

What does this mean: let's say we perform this survey 100 times. In 99 out of 100 times we take this survey, the results would all be within 4.75% of the current results.

Was just weighing in to say basically the same thing!

Even if we go up to about 1,000,000 players and with these results we're still looking at <5% margin of error at 99% confidence so I think we've got a pretty accurate picture of what people who visit the forums and vote on polls think of powerplay. This is not opinion, its maths/statistics.

However, the obvious caveat is that these results assume that our sample is representative of the entire ED player population (and not just "people who visit the forums and vote on polls", but everyone who plays ED). As others have pointed out, not everyone will visit the forums, and those that do wont all vote either.

That does not mean this should be ignored though - they are statistically representative of forum users (with 99% confidence of a <5% error rate) if nothing else.

 

[random_tangent]

I dont think anyone has tried to liken ED to minecraft in their respective ways of being a sandbox. A space sim game by definition will be a totally different kind of experience. You need to consider "sandbox" within that context. There is no "building" sandbox in Elite obviously. There is though a space sim activity sandbox. You may like or not the tools given to your disposal but there is plenty as we speak to generate tons of emergent gameplay only if you care to look, alone or in groups:

Neither did I. What I said was that, as a sandbox, minecraft offers almost unconstrained possibilities, whereas elite does not. Considering sandbox gameplay as a purely abstract concept, which allows gamers to experiment with game mechanics to produce effectively unique outcomes - perhaps, unanticipated outcomes - I don't believe ED fits the bill, frankly. I think what people mean to say when they say sandbox, is open world.

-Speed racing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIm3dfDH7Bs
-Improvised co-op bounty hunting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeAmpWRv3jw (the whole series of Isinona is a great example of pure emergent gameplay in a space sim setting)
-Exploration rendez-vous thousands of LY away from civilization: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvG_pQ0xwrM
-Powerplay group raids into enemy territory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDv03eNPn80
-Lending a hand to a stranded ship: http://www.fenris.co.uk/elite/project/a-tale-of-two-commanders/
-Blockading Khaka at CG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mARBn2AXDao

None of which are examples of sandbox gameplay. I have watched Isinona's videos. They're cool. But most of these examples amount to co-op gameplay, emergent gameplay, and, y'know, just...meeting up...in space. It's the emergent stuff which is often given as a counter-argument to "I'm bored", and the problem with suggesting it is that you're only catering for people looking for Eve 2. A lot of people aren't looking for that. Emergent gameplay is not a substitute for content for these people.

I can go on.

I mean, I am sure someone, maybe yourself, are going to dismiss all these with some creative variant of "nah, that´s not it".

Ah, yeah. You called it!

But the thing is it is. This is Elite. If you are not happy with this concept of a sandbox, a space sim one, then you may want to wait a bit to the future and see what else FDEV has in store for us. Elite has been in development for barely 2.5 years, and it looks it is only getting started.

Yeah, I'm hopeful for the future. Or I was. Like I said, I think the reason the "no content" cries have gotten louder since PP is that people can't understand why one would spend development resources on PP when the content stuff is so obviously sorely lacking...unless perhaps they think it isn't, and they have no intention of adding more in the future. Hence, the dissatisfaction and worry. From my point of view, I like elite, I have given it a month or so, and have experimented with trading, exploration, bounty hunting etc. I'm not interested in the emergent stuff, because I used to play Eve, and it taught me that unless you have a lot of time and you're very flexible with it, it's easy to get left behind. A lot of people want stuff more at their own convenience. I.e. not multiplayer. Anyway, I'll probably still dip in and I'll definitely keep an eye on what's planned for the future. In the mean time, I've reactivated my SWTOR sub and there's the witcher 3 and wasteland 2 to play!

 

[NeilF]

I dont think anyone has tried to liken ED to minecraft in their respective ways of being a sandbox. A cockpit based, space sim game by definition will be a totally different kind of experience. You need to consider "sandbox" within that context. There is no "building" sandbox in Elite obviously. There is though a space sim activity sandbox. You may like or not the tools given to your disposal but there is plenty as we speak to generate tons of emergent gameplay only if you care to look, alone or in groups:

-Speed racing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIm3dfDH7Bs
-Improvised co-op bounty hunting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeAmpWRv3jw
(the whole sIsinona series is a great example of pure emergent gameplay in a space sim setting imho)
-Exploration rendez-vous thousands of LY away from civilization: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvG_pQ0xwrM
-Powerplay group raids into enemy territory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDv03eNPn80
-Lending a hand to a stranded ship: http://www.fenris.co.uk/elite/project/a-tale-of-two-commanders/
-Blockading Khaka at CG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mARBn2AXDao

I can go on.

I mean, I am sure someone, maybe yourself, are going to dismiss all these with some creative variant of "nah, that´s not it".

But the thing is it is. This is Elite. If you are not happy with this concept of a sandbox or emergent gameplay, a cockpit based space sim related one, then you may want to wait a bit to the future and see what else FDEV has in store for us. Elite has been in development for barely 2.5 years, and it looks it is only getting started.

That sort of stuff is all great of course... And can you imagine if the effort applied to PP had instead gone into adding more depth/mechanics to actually support/promote such things?

I'd argue PP hasn't really contributed anything. And certainly nothing that couldn't have been added more generically by a more simple method (mission system)?

For example:-
- You've mention races... So why not support them properly?
- You've mentioned remote rendezvous... So why not add super remote platforms for CMDRs to discover and meet up at?
- You've mentioned blockades... So why not have missions based on such mechanics? eg: One faction/Power vs another?
- You've mentioned lending a hand to ships... So why not promote this in missions, which then grow to escort/protect missions. Counter missions could exist to kill/attack the very target you are assigned to cover!

ie: There's a world of depth that could be added to the ED universe... But it seems all Powerplay is interested in doing it throwing a hall of mirrors around the very same simplistic gameplay we've had for six months, in an attempt to make it look interesting. For me it's not

 

[Hilight]

I am not arguing with that. I am am arguing that there is no evidence or reason to assume that the the reason for the disparity of forum and non forum users, is significant to the questions polled.

And I'm saying that since we know there are reasons for the disparity, they are quantifiable and that the probability is high that they are significant with regard to user polls about the game. As to what those differences might be, this link: http://gamestudies.org/1101/articles/medler will probably give us some clue, but personally I'm too tired to read it as I've been up all night playing Elite LOLOL I tell you what, you read it while I get some sleep and then play ED some more

 

[Bortas]

Hey everyone

Quick question, does anyone know if the weapon unlocks you get by getting to rating 3 with a faction are permanent even if you leave that faction or defect to another one?
Has anyone tried this yet

PowerPlay is released little more than a week now, so nobody could try it out, yet.

or has any information on it?

My guess is, you can keep what you have already bought, when you defect.
Any official information would be appreciated, though.

 

[LeetNoob]

And I'm saying that since we know there are reasons for the disparity, they are quantifiable and that the probability is high that they are significant with regard to user polls about the game. As to what those differences might be, this link: http://gamestudies.org/1101/articles/medler will probably give us some clue, but personally I'm too tired to read it as I've been up all night playing Elite LOLOL I tell you what, you read it while I get some sleep and then play ED some more

You have been up all night playing elite, and you are going to get some sleep to play elite more? This explains the ‘figures in your ears’ response.
You need something in your life besides Elite.

 

[Rauminen]

The official take on this (Michael) is that you'll be able to keep the modules after you leave/defect, and get them back via insurance if you get destroyed, however you won't be able to buy new ones. (if you sold them, or want to equip a different ship)

 

[Ian Phillips]

Since we already know that the majority of Elite players don't use the forum, it follows that there must be a reason for the disparity between total game users and total forum users...it's self-evident. Now what that reason might be, I don't know-- do you?

There is the "Internet 1%" rule, or 89/10/1 ratio. This ratio is confirmed across all sorts of different Internet/web forums or places where people can register and interact. 89% won't even register. 10% read them. 1% actively post.

So, 10% to 11% of the game users will register on the forums. Given that some users will only be on the Steam forums, or Reddit, and a forum user base of almost 47,000 that seems reasonably close, if you assume a game user base of 500,000.

1% actually create content on that forum, say 4,500 (for simple maths). Roughly 750 respondents to the poll.....giving approx 1/6 of 1% of the games user base have responded.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

I tried PowerPlay but I have to say that it is not something that supports the current meta of ED, which is the pure grind. Credits is the goal and this is exactly what PP does NOT give, in fact, it drains credits and so your progress. PP is for players who own a 1 billion cr Conda and archieved pretty much everything in t heir ED life.
In addition, there are no real reasons to fight for your power. if your power loses, so what? Or if it wins, so what?

We need good pay, does not have to be in credits, maybe a good gun or even a nice, EXCLUSIVE ship? Or how about you own your 'own' station (for example you get 5% of the profit the station makes).
Atleast something that I would care of as a player. Right now, even level one missions are worth more than PP missions. Your get merits for PP missions, and they even decay. Nope, the reward is too low for me, I am sorry, better go to WZs and farm credits or go exploring.


I think Frontier though we would care about factions in the sense of feeling the need to defend our homes and protect our families and blah blah - the only thing I care about is credits, nothing else, since credits is your level progression, credits credits credits. Would it even make a difference if the Federation is gone?

 

[MVP_Bluntman]

Certainly 730 (950 in the thread) of 500,000 might be a logical sample size, but when the questions are arranged in a way to achieve only a certain specific set of answers, such as "Yes I played it, and I liked it" and then "Yes I played it and did not like it. " Certainly is set to achieve some sort of specific question, is how much Powerplay is hated or liked amongst the community, none of these questions are about how to improve powerplay, or such ways to improve powerplay. So these statistics are flawed. You should of made a statistical chart based on varying responses, rather than asking if people generally liked or disliked powerplay, especially this early into the update.

So certainly OP you were trying to achieve by misguiding the public into arguing about Powerplay, rather than trying to make people use their input about how to better Powerplay.

Statistics is bull unless the public themselves give you the general questions and answers you want to include in the graph, not questions you designed or answers you expected to hear.

 

[Bortas]

however you won't be able to buy new ones. (if you sold them, or want to equip a different ship)

So this means you cannot transfer the modules to a different ship? Once you sell them, they are gone, and cannot be bought back?

 

[CMDR i Tetsuo]

None of which are examples of sandbox gameplay.

Sandbox is exactly as it sounds, it's a big box of sand with rules that govern how the sand acts. The player is then left to play in that box by interacting with those rules in whatever way they chose. So impromptu station racing is a result of the sandbox approach. The game provides the tools and the players use those tools, in this case, the game provides a station and ships with physics and the players without any prompting created their own entertainment.

The term sandbox existed long before Minecraft was ever invented.

 

[magicaces]

To to you and to people posting messages like yours, I highly suggest you take a class on human psychology. Literally nothing ever happens without incentives.

There is *no* reason to participate in power play. The benefits conferred to a system are global, you spend hours doing mindless tasks that have no incentive of their own, and your progress is ablative so it's extremely difficult to maintain a state of profit, and that profit is meager compared to spending that time elsewhere.

There are no benefits. There is no strategy or tactics involved in moving colored circles around on a map when it changes nothing of importance and doesn't reward you in any real way for your time.

Exactly. +1 for that. They said PP would make the galaxy come alive and you will be involved. Trouble is seeing some coloured patterns move on a galaxy map to me is not the galaxy coming alive! I kinda stupidly assumed that when they said the galaxy comes alive that meant you will see more things happening in space and actually see the different powers in action...I haven't seen any of this yet. Am I missing something?

The tasks they set are the same as trading, moving some things to another place but without making many credits if any. The missions are so boring the whole mission system is pointless.

- - - Updated - - -

- - - Updated - - -

Totally agree PP is one the poorest updates to a game i have ever seen. Move on play the game how you want outside of PP.

 

[Alien]

and a forum user base of almost 47,000

Would you like to clarify what you mean by "forum user base of almost 47,000"?

I wish we had just 12 people again ... things were so much less hassle then.

 

[Mr_Blastman]

I found this in another thread...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=2m30s&v=6gMbLjUjs1w&feature=youtu.be

Frontier, own up to your words. You said, "All professions will be equal so no one becomes the absolute best way to make money."

And here we are... with the 20 ton cargo nerf.

 

[Matt]

Would you like to clarify what you mean by "forum user base of almost 47,000"?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6369786/Elite Forum/Forum Stats.jpg

I wish we had just 12 people again ... things were so much less hassle then.

You youngsters joining in 2008 - pah! When I was a 2006 lad and joined these forums we didn't even have an ED section