Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].
- Thread starter Robert Maynard
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A simple solution. I love it.
Do people on PvP servers get bigger rewards or bonuses for progress because they have higher risks than those on PvE ones in other MMOs? No.
You are playing in the open for thrill. Now you've got the thrill. If you aren't happy with it - I'll answer the same way people answer in all MMOs:
PvE servers that way ->
In our case - solo and private groups.
You are playing in the open for thrill. Now you've got the thrill. If you aren't happy with it - I'll answer the same way people answer in all MMOs:
PvE servers that way ->
In our case - solo and private groups.
Why doesn't a mod slap the hand of the OP and move this to the Open vs Group vs Solo thread?
And FWIW, I still think you have all got it wrong. Sure FD have stuffed up big time. But the 'proper' solution is to make Solo/Group just as hard as Open. SJA is now getting round to making the AI more difficult (at high levels), as it should always have been. FD should inform the spawning of AI in Solo and Group based on what is happening in Open. Wings of 4 baddies killing you in Open? - Put wings of 4 AI baddies in Solo. Etc.
And FWIW, I still think you have all got it wrong. Sure FD have stuffed up big time. But the 'proper' solution is to make Solo/Group just as hard as Open. SJA is now getting round to making the AI more difficult (at high levels), as it should always have been. FD should inform the spawning of AI in Solo and Group based on what is happening in Open. Wings of 4 baddies killing you in Open? - Put wings of 4 AI baddies in Solo. Etc.
Forced into Solo? Nonsense. I thought you played in open for the thrill? I thought you played in open to measure yourself up against the best? I guess not. It looks like you play in Open, until you have a goal other than PvP competition. And, that's ok. Each player gets to decide what mode to use.
You don't like the feeling of 'feeling' forced into Solo, how fair would it be if all of the Solo/Group players were forced, literally not figuratively nor this absurdly false notion you present, to play in Open. We have options as players. We have had them the start. Why should the entire galaxy, that has built in choice, be required to play by your standards.
The balance is plain. You discovered and revealed the secret. Anyone can go into Solo and/or Open as they wish. If/when you want competition from other PC's you choosd that mode, when you don't, you are free to choose another. Flexibility with fairness built right in. Nice, right?
You don't like the feeling of 'feeling' forced into Solo, how fair would it be if all of the Solo/Group players were forced, literally not figuratively nor this absurdly false notion you present, to play in Open. We have options as players. We have had them the start. Why should the entire galaxy, that has built in choice, be required to play by your standards.
The balance is plain. You discovered and revealed the secret. Anyone can go into Solo and/or Open as they wish. If/when you want competition from other PC's you choosd that mode, when you don't, you are free to choose another. Flexibility with fairness built right in. Nice, right?
I think there's an "open VS solo" mega-post somewhere. BOO.
Can you name me an mmo where you can rapidly switch between a pve and a pvp server?
Your analogy is flawed... People in the pvp server don't have a bigger reward because they are competing against other people in the same pvp server... It's all relative dude, that's the problem...
Point well made. Thing is, at the moment, ED is not particularly challenging and so the only risk/challenge comes from the presence of other players. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy ED, but I want it to be more than just grinding.
I agree, removing/lowering them across the board is too much. Better would be if insurance cost was removed/lowered when you are murdered by a player (i.e. the player got a murder counted added to their bounty for killing you). Deaths to the environment and NPCs should never get a discount.
To your first point, with the above suggestion you would still lose the cargo and PP vouchers you were carrying, so it is still a significant loss if that's your reason for being there. And if you die trying to stop players from expanding you still failed to prevent them from delivering their cargo/vouchers. So the deaths are still meaningful even without insurance coming into play.
To the second point, if I am "skilled" enough to beat a bigger ship once, I can beat it any number of times. If I can't beat the bigger ship, it's not dead so it doesn't pay an insurance cost anyway. This change helps losers not winners.
Just to point out, that although you feel that you should get more rewards for the risks you are taking, I don't really see how that would have made a difference. You got destroyed two times, so you presumably would have got no rewards anyway, as the greater reward presumably wouldn't have changed your outcome.
The answer would seem to be to find players who will wing up with you to help mitigate the risk. Isn't that why people choose to play Open, for player interactions both good and bad?
Welcome new members from the merger.
Always nice to see new posters.
Quick pre read material to get you up to speed (this is on page 1, post 3 for reference);
From the Kickstarter;
*And the best part - you can do all this online with your friends, or other "Elite" pilots like yourself, or even alone. The choice is yours...*
*you will be able to control who else you might encounter in your game – perhaps limit it to just your friends? Cooperate on adventures or chase your friends down to get that booty. The game will work in a seamless, lobby-less way, with the ability to rendezvous with friends
*Play it your way*
Your reputation is affected by your personal choices. Play the game your way: dangerous pirate, famous explorer or notorious assassin - the choice is yours to make. Take on missions and affect the world around you, alone or with your friends.*
*You simply play the game, and depending on your configuration (your choice) *
*We have the concept of “groups”. They can be private groups just of your friends or open groups (that form part of the game) based on the play styles people prefer, and the rules in each can be different. Players will begin in the group “All” but can change groups at will,*
Some Dev comments from the Kickstarter;
View attachment 44183
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...erous/comments?cursor=1681442#comment-1681441
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...erous/comments?cursor=1705398#comment-1705397
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...erous/comments?cursor=1705552#comment-1705551
From the forum archives;
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6300
All Players Group– Players in this group will be matched with each other as much as possible to ensure as many human players can meet and play together
Private Group – Players in this group will only be matched with other players in the same private group
Solo Group – Players in this group won’t be matched with anyone else ever (effectively a private group with no one else invited)
(All by a Lead Designer)
Also DB on Multiplayer and Grouping and Single (01:00 - 02:01) Plus how the Galaxy will evolve over time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5JY...kuz6s&index=18
"DB explicitly said that solo players would be able to do community goals, though back then they weren't called that. Dev Diary Video #2, at the 4:10 mark."
DB on "Griefing" and "Griefers"
(Listen out for the part where FD can move them in to a private group of just each other)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb5hqjxmf4M
Rededit Topic on "unusual event for players to come against players" (With Twitch Video)
http://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangero...ayers_to_come/
Direct Twitch Link; (Note DB use "Occasonial" and "unusual" regarding players interacting)
http://www.twitch.tv/egx/b/571962295?t=69m00s
Also, MMO does not mean "social" (It means lots of people connected)
Wikipedia;
A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet. MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.
Oxford English Dictionary (Online);
An online video game which can be played by a very large number of people simultaneously .
Dev comments;
E3 2015 Interview (17th June 2015);
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/...-e3-xbox-exclusives-and-qa-with-david-braben/
The overall thread topic (+ How XB1 fits);
And regarding the game design;
To highlight something from that above quote;
“You should do what makes you excited. I don’t want there to be a ‘right’ way, because then you’re not necessarily playing the way you want to play."
So, can people NOW! accept that the game is not broken, it is not a bad design, FD did not mess up.
THIS IS HOW IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE.
Always nice to see new posters.
Quick pre read material to get you up to speed (this is on page 1, post 3 for reference);
From the Kickstarter;
*And the best part - you can do all this online with your friends, or other "Elite" pilots like yourself, or even alone. The choice is yours...*
*you will be able to control who else you might encounter in your game – perhaps limit it to just your friends? Cooperate on adventures or chase your friends down to get that booty. The game will work in a seamless, lobby-less way, with the ability to rendezvous with friends
*Play it your way*
Your reputation is affected by your personal choices. Play the game your way: dangerous pirate, famous explorer or notorious assassin - the choice is yours to make. Take on missions and affect the world around you, alone or with your friends.*
*You simply play the game, and depending on your configuration (your choice) *
*We have the concept of “groups”. They can be private groups just of your friends or open groups (that form part of the game) based on the play styles people prefer, and the rules in each can be different. Players will begin in the group “All” but can change groups at will,*
Some Dev comments from the Kickstarter;
View attachment 44183
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...erous/comments?cursor=1681442#comment-1681441
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...erous/comments?cursor=1705398#comment-1705397
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...erous/comments?cursor=1705552#comment-1705551
From the forum archives;
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6300
All Players Group– Players in this group will be matched with each other as much as possible to ensure as many human players can meet and play together
Private Group – Players in this group will only be matched with other players in the same private group
Solo Group – Players in this group won’t be matched with anyone else ever (effectively a private group with no one else invited)
(All by a Lead Designer)
Also DB on Multiplayer and Grouping and Single (01:00 - 02:01) Plus how the Galaxy will evolve over time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5JY...kuz6s&index=18
"DB explicitly said that solo players would be able to do community goals, though back then they weren't called that. Dev Diary Video #2, at the 4:10 mark."
DB on "Griefing" and "Griefers"
(Listen out for the part where FD can move them in to a private group of just each other)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb5hqjxmf4M
Rededit Topic on "unusual event for players to come against players" (With Twitch Video)
http://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangero...ayers_to_come/
Direct Twitch Link; (Note DB use "Occasonial" and "unusual" regarding players interacting)
http://www.twitch.tv/egx/b/571962295?t=69m00s
Also, MMO does not mean "social" (It means lots of people connected)
Wikipedia;
A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet. MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.
Oxford English Dictionary (Online);
An online video game which can be played by a very large number of people simultaneously .
Dev comments;
Originally Posted by Michael Brookes
Originally Posted by Numi
Will at any time solo and private group play be separated into a different universe/database from open play? It's kind of cheap that you can be safe from many things in solo, like player blockades and so on, and still affect the same universe.
No.
Michael
Originally Posted by Michael Brookes
Originally Posted by Robert Maynard
Thanks for that clarity Michael.
Are you in a position to confirm that group switching between the three game modes will remain as a feature of the game?
We're not planning on changing that.
Michael
Originally Posted by Michael Brookes
Originally Posted by mosh_er
Hi Micheal
I know you said that solo/group and open will always use the same universe, can you also say that there will be no specific perks in playing in one mode over another? i.e bigger profit from trading in open or bigger bounties?
None are planned at the moment.
Michael
David Braben AMA Thread said:Originally Posted by Alexander the Grape
In the newsletter, it was mentioned that an intersection between a trading power and a military power will result in piracy missions.
Will this make NPC piracy more profitable or will we continue to need to focus on players?
It can be more profitable, and it will apply to both players and NPCs.
David Braben AMA Thread said:Originally Posted by Adept
For fun
That said, it could be worth thinking about reducing the impact that solo & group players have on the political simulation.
Unlike community goals, Powerplay is a swinging balance - ie solo players are also balancing solo players.
E3 2015 Interview (17th June 2015);
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/...-e3-xbox-exclusives-and-qa-with-david-braben/
The overall thread topic (+ How XB1 fits);
And regarding the game design;
To highlight something from that above quote;
“You should do what makes you excited. I don’t want there to be a ‘right’ way, because then you’re not necessarily playing the way you want to play."
So, can people NOW! accept that the game is not broken, it is not a bad design, FD did not mess up.
THIS IS HOW IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE.
That's not the problem of power play. It's the problem of Open Mode. Play alone anywhere a lot of players are around and you basically commit suicide. Wings made populated areas in open extremely dangerous alone. PowerPlay only added a big target sign on your back.
Why should anybody who plays alone play in open and in populated areas? Sure the galaxy is big and there are a lot of regions where one or two CMDRs fly by every 24 h - but why should somebody play there in open if he can play everywhere in solo and get the same game experience?
Adding rewards for playing open? Next thing people will request is that rewards are only given if enough CMDRs are in the same instance. I can play in open without seeing a CMDR for days - there is no difference to solo mode. I just can't visit CGs and populated areas (in anything bigger than a Sidewinder).
The whole rewards for open play is just wishful thinking of those that want more victims to gank. It won't work.
Open is the player group mode. Let them play together. Even with 200% increase in every reward in the game it's not worth it for a single player.
And it's about time we had one.
GTA Online. They use exactly the same model as E: D and they are quite successful in it. In fact I anticipate that every MMO soon enough will adapt this model. Because it's too good to stick to the old PvP/PvE ideology.
Oh, and Ark is going to have pretty much the same model.
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Let's assume that is true. It is not, but let's just assume that it is.
What is the problem?
If you're playing Open you're playing it for the human interaction. You're certainly not playing it because you don't want to see people.
Now, due to that interaction the game can be more challenging at times. You can get jumped by human wings etc. That's why you're playing it.
If you don't like that there is a solution - solo.
Actually, we have many. We've had many for a long time.
DCUO. Go to your faction's home base and use the phase shifter device.
WoW. Just join a cross-realm group with someone from a server with your opposite rule, for example join a group by someone in a PvE server with your PvP character. The cross-realm zones will take care of the rest.
Runescape. You get to choose the server you will play every time you log in.
Shroud of the Avatar. You choose at login if you want to play solo, with friends, or with everyone.
Plus, about every game that has a PvP flag. You get to choose if you can be attacked, and typically can flip the flag whenever out of combat after a small delay (5 minutes or less).
And, on top of that, every game that has the main world as PvE-only, with segregated battlegrounds for PvP, like GW2 and TSW.
And this doesn't even enter into the not-quite-MMO games, where choice tends to be even more present.
Being able to choose at a whim if you want to open yourself for PvP or not is the rule rather than the exception nowadays.
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