Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Mouse]

### MODERATOR HAT OFF ###

Many did write about PP pro and cons.

After playing a view days for F.Winters I did get to the conclusion that PP is pushing me out of OPEN PLAY or punishing me for playing in OPEN PLAY.

Playing POWERPLAY alone (not in a wing) in OPEN is not only dangerous - its nearly suicide. I did try to deliver this EXPANSION goods and was attacked (and destroyed 2x) by wings of 4 players from "enemy" powers.

So why should I still play OPEN when I risk to get in a very uneven situation 1 vs 4?

The logical solution would be to play SOLO or GROUP, same rewards - little or no risk.

So 1 great problem is that OPEN is adding RISK but absolute no REWARD for it.... you get the same credits in group or solo. As long as OPEN dont give some bonus many will think 2 before going OPEN.
Of cause this problem is old, and was the same in the combat zones before PP, or in the CG which included wars.

2 great problem is that PP did give me a lot of ENEMIES appr. 8 out of 10 players are enemies - but it did NOT give me more friends..... in fact we are divided in several powers, play now in different power zones, and live in different time zones.
So it did get more difficult to meet old friends.... or now they are even enemies!!

About more friends - where are the NPC wings - we have them in 1 training missions? At least I could hire some "friends" and have a chance to survive when the 4 wing player "heroes" are chasing me (alone) again.......of cause I can also switch to SOLO.....


just my 2 cents

I was in my power's HOME Sector, I was also interdicted FIVE repeat FIVE times just traveling from one station to a different one in sector. Was destroyed twice and cost me a pretty penny, the money I had saved up for a new A mod FSD drive. On the wins I did have, I got a measly 400 credits per.. not even covering the cost of repairs and the enemies were Competent to Elite status.. Oh... I was in Solo. So this "The logical solution would be to play SOLO or GROUP, same rewards - little or no risk." is utter crap.. just because YOU seem to think it is EZ land does not mean it is. You wanted harder, you wanted more risk, you got it and your reaction is to complain about how "easy" you feel everyone else is having it?

Forced into Solo? Nonsense. I thought you played in open for the thrill? I thought you played in open to measure yourself up against the best? I guess not. It looks like you play in Open, until you have a goal other than PvP competition. And, that's ok. Each player gets to decide what mode to use.

You don't like the feeling of 'feeling' forced into Solo, how fair would it be if all of the Solo/Group players were forced, literally not figuratively nor this absurdly false notion you present, to play in Open. We have options as players. We have had them the start. Why should the entire galaxy, that has built in choice, be required to play by your standards.

The balance is plain. You discovered and revealed the secret. Anyone can go into Solo and/or Open as they wish. If/when you want competition from other PC's you choosd that mode, when you don't, you are free to choose another. Flexibility with fairness built right in. Nice, right?

^ This ^ This ^ this this this this this. ^

- - - Updated - - -

OHOHHO My friend, Now this is something worth a Screenshot, now even the mods say what we have been screaming for, since CG updates. Open play= hard and risky. Solo=ez lyfe ez money... But the devs don't seem to see this, EVER. This makes people like me dust the game and wait for SC or NewMan'sSky, since i dearly hope to God that there there is Open and Solo as separate modes. Also you might want to join the OpenvsSolovsGroups discussion since this is basically what it's all about.

This also seems to be the GENERAL opinion of newcomers. " Yay a MMO i can do everything I want in it yes! Oh wait, are you telling me there are people influencing my world that I will never see? Wait, can i get bounties in the top list in stations from people whop are actually in Solo" Yeah, that's about it with piracy and basically half of the game. No piracy, no danger for trading, ez money and boring times. More and more people go to Solo because of this and people like me who like Open only, leave the game because sooner or later Open is going to be just like Solo, you and space dust, oh boy! What a journey!

That is because the Devs realize the argument that open is hard and risky and solo is ez lyfe is an absolute fallacy.

 

[Dave1235]

I was wondering just last night about a 2nd character slot, mainly for the reason of I'm a loooong way from the starting area and allied with a power. I have a friend who buys the game, in order to play together I have to 1st dump my allegiance so that I'm not Kill on sight in the starting area, then I've got to quit everything I was doing and then get too the starting area.

It would be a lot easier and more fun for another character slot where I could switch to when they are on and when they are off be back on main doing what I was doing before.

The idea though that you would lock one in open and one in solo would be counter productive because now i've forced my friend to either play in the mode my 2nd slot is tied to, or I don't need the second slot because to play alongside them I still have to do what I mentioned above. Or if I can "lock" both character slots in the same mode, I now cannot participate at all in the other if I feel like it because I'm locked in another mode on both characters.


sooooo yeah not quite a good idea I'm afraid. As for the reasoning of "locking" the two.. people can still grief.. then go to their other account piddle around then come back later to grief more. It isn't a deterrent.

IIRC back around Beta there was talk of 3 commander slots, not locked to any mode, not heard anything about it in a while though, I guess it is still on the Soon(TM) list.

 

[Raduk]

Forced into Solo? Nonsense. I thought you played in open for the thrill? I thought you played in open to measure yourself up against the best? I guess not. It looks like you play in Open, until you have a goal other than PvP competition. And, that's ok. Each player gets to decide what mode to use.

You don't like the feeling of 'feeling' forced into Solo, how fair would it be if all of the Solo/Group players were forced, literally not figuratively nor this absurdly false notion you present, to play in Open. We have options as players. We have had them the start. Why should the entire galaxy, that has built in choice, be required to play by your standards.

The balance is plain. You discovered and revealed the secret. Anyone can go into Solo and/or Open as they wish. If/when you want competition from other PC's you choosd that mode, when you don't, you are free to choose another. Flexibility with fairness built right in. Nice, right?

How about I want to play an MMO with other people all playing on the same level playing field as me? If you can't see how playing solo, and jumping occasionally to open, impacts those of us who play in open all the time the I can't help you. You are interested in being right, not having a conversation.

 

[fademist]

How about I want to play an MMO with other people all playing on the same level playing field as me? If you can't see how playing solo, and jumping occasionally to open, impacts those of us who play in open all the time the I can't help you. You are interested in being right, not having a conversation.

he impact u the same way u impact him ...

 

[FuzzySpider]

How about I want to play an MMO with other people all playing on the same level playing field as me? If you can't see how playing solo, and jumping occasionally to open, impacts those of us who play in open all the time the I can't help you. You are interested in being right, not having a conversation.

What is preventing you from playing in Solo?

 

[ianw]

How about I want to play an MMO with other people all playing on the same level playing field as me? If you can't see how playing solo, and jumping occasionally to open, impacts those of us who play in open all the time the I can't help you. You are interested in being right, not having a conversation.

Well we've been having this argument for about 15000 posts now and no-one has yet answered this for me;

The gist of the argument seems to be that some open players don't like being "forced" into solo to compete in some goals and they don't think it's fair that people can "hide" from them or others in solo.

These same people don't seem to have any problem with someone like me in open being "forced" into a wing with people I don't know to have any chance against an established wing. The fact that a lone player in open has no chance against a wing doesn't seem to worry them on the "fairness" scale.

No-one as yet has been able to explain the discrepancy - perhaps you can?

 

[Robert Maynard]

How about I want to play an MMO with other people all playing on the same level playing field as me? If you can't see how playing solo, and jumping occasionally to open, impacts those of us who play in open all the time the I can't help you. You are interested in being right, not having a conversation.

We have all been told to "play the way you want to" and, more recently, "There are no changes planned to separate solo and online saves, and players will continue to inhabit the same shared galaxy whether they’re in solo or multiplayer—again, continuing with Braben’s contention that there’s no ‘right’ way to play.".

Therefore, while others may want players to play in a particular way, that is not in any way required.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

he impact u the same way u impact him ...

Except a lot less of course.

 

[fademist]

Except a lot less of course.

the same amount .....

 

[Distance]

We have all been told to "play the way you want to" and, more recently, "There are no changes planned to separate solo and online saves, and players will continue to inhabit the same shared galaxy whether they’re in solo or multiplayer—again, continuing with Braben’s contention that there’s no ‘right’ way to play.".

Therefore, while others may want players to play in a particular way, that is not in any way required.

The funny thing is that Braben said in one video "there's no right way to play" and then in the twitch stream yesterday he sneered at the presenter for choosing solo mode

 

[Mouse]

How about I ant to play an MMO with other people all playing on the same level playing field as me? If you can't see how playing solo, and jumping occasionally to open, impacts those of us who play in open all the time the I can't help you. You are interesting in being right, not having a conversation.

Actually I'm not interested in being right and not have a conversation. I like conversations, plus I've admitted before in the thread if I was wrong about something. You DO get to play an MMO (well MMOish) game with other people, and you start off on the same level playing field, everyone will progress differently though. And you claim I can't see how people in solo, "jumping" into open once in awhile impacts those of you who play only in open. Apparently you haven't read a lot of this thread, maybe you were brought in with a merge I don't' know.

1. what effects Open effects Solo. They are both participating on the same background, we are all on the same playing field no matter the mode. Only difference is the pew pew pew I want to shoot other players bit.
2. If someone in open jumps to solo to try and do what they couldn't in open, there are people in solo also working to counter them just as in Open, only difference is the getting to shoot at them part. Also because of matchmaker and other issues you have people in Open who are pretty much Solo mode because you may be in the same sector but are not matched with each other.
3. Those who grind up in solo then jump into Open to PVP with big powerful ships thinking it is an advantage.. usually end up with Big powerful pile of space debris. Combat vs AI is different than vs People and they don't' have the skill level others have and usually pay the price.
4. You can't punish people for wanting to play more than one way. You may want to only play in open, but some who like to PVP some and take their fighter into Open to get some combat, may want to trade in Solo because they have a different mindset between the two. Or their connection is being funny
5. Forcing people to play in other modes is bad, just in case you feel everyone should play in open.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

How about I want to play an MMO with other people all playing on the same level playing field as me? …

How about those in different time zones. Those in different instances. Those on the xBox (soon). There is no same level playing field in Elite Dangerous and there won't be one unless the game is completely changed.
For example take a CG with 3500 players participating. You will only see 32 players max at once. All others are invisible to you, you can't influence them even if all play Open Mode. You could be part of a player group, that way your group could influence more players, but still most players will be invisible.


Those who play Open Mode exclusively do so because they have chosen to do so. They probably have their reasons for doing so, but they can switch between modes just like everybody else.
Those who play Open Mode because they need other players for their play style (pirates or bounty hunters) should be happy that players can switch between open and solo. Without being able to switch those who just occasionally go into Open Mode wouldn't be in Open. The ability to switch modes increases the player population in Open mode.

In the end it doesn't matter if someone plays Solo, Group or Open.

 

[Dave1235]

Why doesn't a mod slap the hand of the OP and move this to the Open vs Group vs Solo thread?

And FWIW, I still think you have all got it wrong. Sure FD have stuffed up big time. But the 'proper' solution is to make Solo/Group just as hard as Open. SJA is now getting round to making the AI more difficult (at high levels), as it should always have been. FD should inform the spawning of AI in Solo and Group based on what is happening in Open. Wings of 4 baddies killing you in Open? - Put wings of 4 AI baddies in Solo. Etc.

I don't agree, if that were to happen many players would not be able to visit the old worlds even in solo, due to some open players deciding to make them their home.

Harder AI across all modes, I am with you, AI's replicating the actions of players that I have no wish to meet, in solo, not so much.

 

[fademist]

The funny thing is that Braben said in one video "there's no right way to play" and then in the twitch stream yesterday he sneered at the presenter for choosing solo mode

maybe he got cold

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

The funny thing is that Braben said in one video "there's no right way to play" and then in the twitch stream yesterday he sneered at the presenter for choosing solo mode

Playing a game is different than selling a game

 

[Mohrgan]

How about I want to play an MMO with other people all playing on the same level playing field as me? If you can't see how playing solo, and jumping occasionally to open, impacts those of us who play in open all the time the I can't help you. You are interested in being right, not having a conversation.

I believe what levels the playing field is equal choice. Each time a player sits down to play, they have a choice concerning whom they play with. You personally can choose what playstyle suits your current mood. Nothing can be fairer than equal choice.

Your personal code of gaming ethics has no bearing on how other equal customers should be allowed to play.

 

[Robert Maynard]

The funny thing is that Braben said in one video "there's no right way to play" and then in the twitch stream yesterday he sneered at the presenter for choosing solo mode

While Frontier may *hope* that most players will choose to play in Open, they have afforded us the choice of which mode to play in on a session-by-session basis.

It may well be that DBOBE prefers Open - but he is not forcing his choice upon us.

 

[DarkWalker]

How about I want to play an MMO with other people all playing on the same level playing field as me? If you can't see how playing solo, and jumping occasionally to open, impacts those of us who play in open all the time the I can't help you. You are interested in being right, not having a conversation.

I'm interested in having the game that was advertised and sold to me as a solo game not punish or limit me in any way simply because I refuse to ever let players like you play with me.

I'm not interested in all the MMO nonsense. Never was. Across the Kickstart and the development process the devs have assured those like me, repeatedly and in different ways, that we would never be forced to play with others.

Besides, with the XBox launch, every XBox player that does not have a Live Gold subscription will be restricted to Solo mode only.

Also, an early quote by DB himself:
"I don't see this as an MMO in the traditional sense, unless you think of Call of Duty as an MMO. In E you will have the concept of saving and reloading, and choosing a limited group of real people that can appear in your game (which could be just you alone), including allowing strangers to appear."

The intent isn't, and never was, making a classic MMO. In the same way, being able to force others to play with you was rejected and excluded since the very beginning. Allowing players to choose when they play with others, with whom they play, was core to the concept of the game from the start.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

The funny thing is that Braben said in one video "there's no right way to play" and then in the twitch stream yesterday he sneered at the presenter for choosing solo mode

If he prefers playing solo (at that moment, or in general or whatever) then that does not mean Solo is the right way to play. He just likes palying solo, that does not make palying Open or Group less "good".

The man can have some personal preferences too, you know.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It's like voting. I have no business telling anyone who to vote for, and I can strongly disagree with your choice. But I do want everyone to have that free choice in the matter..