I guess it isn't if you're prepared to play everyday. But it does help lessen the experience of the bounty hunters.
Last edited:
So what is the current Criminality mechanics (now)? 7 days now unable to pay bounty... Then...?
- Thread starter NeilF
- Start date
I guess it isn't if you're prepared to play everyday. But it does help lessen the experience of the bounty hunters.
But he's a career pirate, proud of the bounty he's built up over months and months... He now goes away on holiday for a week (remember real life?), and bang... Bounty all gone! Huh?
Last edited:
in the original discussion thread on crime, when they asked us to discuss the proposed changes for 1.3 a couple of months ago, a number of people put forward various ideas for improving the system that FDev had proposed, one of those ideas was making the time based on in game time not out of game time and the bounty timer would pause after 1 minute of being docked in a station. One other aspect I proposed was that of reintroducing the legal status from the previous elites and having that further impact on the actual bounty timer so the more you broke serious laws the longer the bounty timer persisted, and with it being put forward as online play time penalties for various offences and not external to the game time, small minor bounties (friendly fire etc) that an otherwise clean and lawful pilot might encounter from time to time would be payable/expire very quickly (minutes) where someone completing murder might rack up an additional 4 or more hours depending on their exisitng lawful state...
Unfortunately (I feel) they did not listen to any of the proposals and suggested improvements put forward in that thread and implemented what they had initially intended, then during the beta people voiced their objections to problems associated with FF incidents and so on and so they made some minor changes so that the bounty system timer was based on the credit value of the bounty...
Realisitically the system is not balanced, is not cohesive in the game, I do feel that it should be based on play time and not based on external time, so that way if someone wants to be a bad guy and then IRL goes on a holiday, they do not lose the bounty they worked hard to gain... While also ensuring that serial rammers and serial offenders keeo an active bounty on their head and would become targets for bounty hunters and system authorities alike...
Unfortunately (I feel) they did not listen to any of the proposals and suggested improvements put forward in that thread and implemented what they had initially intended, then during the beta people voiced their objections to problems associated with FF incidents and so on and so they made some minor changes so that the bounty system timer was based on the credit value of the bounty...
Realisitically the system is not balanced, is not cohesive in the game, I do feel that it should be based on play time and not based on external time, so that way if someone wants to be a bad guy and then IRL goes on a holiday, they do not lose the bounty they worked hard to gain... While also ensuring that serial rammers and serial offenders keeo an active bounty on their head and would become targets for bounty hunters and system authorities alike...
So my only true question left is if Dormant Bounties on me can be picked up (in other systems than where the bounty is issued) with a KW scanner? Or are all bounties, active or dormant, read by the KW scanner until they become legacy ones?
Also I feel like there should be more responses from authority or faction vessels than just either your ok or time to kill you. Murder? Attack another ship (more than just one or two stray shots)? Kill on sight. Accidently bumped someone or forgot docking permission? One or two stray rounds in a fight? Yeah don't know If that warrents the death penalty. Should be some other response to crimes than instant death penalty for everything.
Also I feel like there should be more responses from authority or faction vessels than just either your ok or time to kill you. Murder? Attack another ship (more than just one or two stray shots)? Kill on sight. Accidently bumped someone or forgot docking permission? One or two stray rounds in a fight? Yeah don't know If that warrents the death penalty. Should be some other response to crimes than instant death penalty for everything.
Last edited:
Maybe they'll put in a feature where you can toggle 'send weekly letters to all jurisdictions where I have bounties':
"arrrrr
to them as it may concern
oim away for a spell makin an almoighty ruckus in <insert major faction here> space
do not remove the proice ye be puttin on my head
oi will be back you may depend upon it so yell be needin it later
if ye do then know oi shall kill all yer npc fambly
koind regards
arrrrr"
And it just renews automatically every week if it's toggled on
Last edited:
I believe dormant bounties are invisible to all, including KW scans. Only if an authority ship from the jurisdiction that issues the bounty that has gone dormant can reactivate it by scanning. It can also be reactivated if you commit a crime in their space and it's reported. In both case, they've discovered that you're not dead after all. A KWS only detects active bounties - the people who think you're dead withdraw their offer, so it's off no value until they know you're alive again.
That's my understanding.
Well, they only try to kill you if you actually blow up a ship by accidentally bumping them - they probably aren't going to distinguish between that and a deliberate ram. And I can see them wanting very strict control of their station space for control and crime reasons... if someone just tries to land at an airport today without saying who they are... and there are other penalties - if you're caught smuggling, you just get fined. Also if you have a non-lethal collision.
Maybe they'll put in a feature where you can toggle 'send weekly letters to all jurisdictions where I have bounties':
"arrrrr
to them as it may concern
oim away for a spell makin an almoighty ruckus in <insert major faction here> space
do not remove the proice ye be puttin on my head
oi will be back you may depend upon it so yell be needin it later
if ye do then know oi shall kill all yer npc fambly
koind regards
arrrrr"
And it just renews automatically every week if it's toggled on
Ironically, it's seemingly no less daft than the solution we seem to have in place now...
Last edited:
Well, come to think of it, a 'No bounty time-out' toggle might work in the function menu.
Be hard to explain this in-lore though.
And there would have to be something done about the concern of a player toggling it on by accident. Maybe a yes/no dialog with 'Are you really sure you want to do this? Bounties placed on your head will never expire!' And then if you turn it back off again, all outstanding bounties begin 7 day timers again.
I don't think this is a realistic solution, heheh.
Be hard to explain this in-lore though.
And there would have to be something done about the concern of a player toggling it on by accident. Maybe a yes/no dialog with 'Are you really sure you want to do this? Bounties placed on your head will never expire!' And then if you turn it back off again, all outstanding bounties begin 7 day timers again.
I don't think this is a realistic solution, heheh.
Can someone explain to me what was wrong with a Bounty system along the lines of what we did have before, except you cannot pay it off if you've committed an offense in the past 7 days?
ie: After 7 days it's still a bounty, but now you can pay it off?
So bounties do not magicaly get forgotten about, you must pay them off. But you have to live with them for 7 days first.
Last edited:
what was wrong with it? nothing?
why did it get changed? same as every other time, enough people cried about it being too punishing that they couldn't kill "x" real players in their conda's without earning big bounties with major factions, so FD crumbled and let them have their way, forsaking the original vision of this system, and a meaningful gameplay mechanic (think of how much more deadly and exciting anarchy systems would become).
Last edited:
I think the main part of it is for consistency in terms, and keeping them firmly separated.
When you think of a bounty in real life, it is indeed something someone else issues on you, offering money to other people. A fine is something you yourself pay as a penalty. So I think it's partly to make sure there's a clear division between one and the other. You see bounty in transactions, you know what that means - you're wanted in that jurisdiction. A fine means something else.
In terms of how it operates, if the bounty became something you could pay off after 7 days, it would blur the line. You would also have a hugely cluttered transactions tab, so there may be UI and display issues. Even problems with contacting the server to fetch your 100,000 outstanding bounties. That may be part of the reason legacy fines aren't displayed. Uncapped, they could potentially reach insane levels, and they're only relevant and needed as data when it loads the system data for your current system - if you could see it all on transactions, it'd have to fetch data from every jurisdiction you've committed crimes in.
But I'm guessing the issue is more about the system - how to make it so someone can remain wanted in a given jurisdiction with a bounty on their head forever if they want, while also preventing people from inadvertantly digging themselves into a criminal hole from which there's no coming back.
Actually, how about something like this: a toggle where you make clear you will never pay legacy fines (unless forced to by the rebuy screen), because you do not care. If this is selected, your bounties do not become legacy fines (though you still have to pay their value at the rebuy screen as if they were)? Again, with safeguards to try to prevent accidental switching on.
I doubt it would work, as I'm sure Frontier have implemented this half baked system to stop the people who sell credits for cash. Those billion bounties that could be seen on the bounty boards were the credit sellers, killing NPC's afk, racking up huge bounties till someone daft enough to give them real cash for taking their enormous bounties came along. I'm sure there are ways of dealing with the credit sellers, but Frontier took the easiest option in my view with the new bounty system, to kill two birds with one stone (friendly fire)
Ignoring being clear - Which I'd suggest the current system really isn't... I'm having a real problem working out what is wrong with the simpler suggestion of:-
- You receive a Bounty.
- You cannot pay it off for seven days.
- Any additional bounty returns the timer to 7 days (until you can pay it off).
- After 7 days you can pay off the bounty.
- While you have a bounty you are Wanted (in that juristiction) and it can be claimed by someone killing you etc (eg: via a KWS).
How is that not simpler/clearer than the current system, and more importantly allows for long term bounties to be retained if people wish to retain them?
Last edited:
Apparently the new mechanics work like this...
1. Commit a crime like murder.
2. Wait 7 days to get rid of it.
3. Go on an unlimited killing spree to hit a million as fast as you can. Any kills after that are pure gravy!
4. Profit for lols.
Well, if I had unbridled psychopathy, I might be able to live out those dreams. Alas, I don't.
1. Commit a crime like murder.
2. Wait 7 days to get rid of it.
3. Go on an unlimited killing spree to hit a million as fast as you can. Any kills after that are pure gravy!
4. Profit for lols.
Well, if I had unbridled psychopathy, I might be able to live out those dreams. Alas, I don't.
Well, as I said, I think the current system is clear, for me anyway.
If I have a bounty, I'm wanted, there's a price on my head.
If I have a fine, there's an outstanding monetary penalty to pay for crimes committed.
A bounty becomes a fine after 7 days.
All the stuff about legacy fines and whether you can see them is fine-graining details. The basic system seems clearer to me than bounties sometimes being payable and sometimes not. I don't see any advantage to that, other than making it easier for people to keep themselves wanted if they want to be. I don't think the current system is necessarily perfect, but I'm not convinced that idea is clearer.
Ok, so now that it's clear as mud consider this. You go on an extended crime spree and rack up over time several million in bounties that have went dormant, then retired to legacy fines. So say you now have 10mil in fines at station A. You just finished upgrading your fleet and leaves you with 200k. You buy a sidewinder from station B and go back to station A where you have the legacy fines and dock. On the way out your sidewinder blows up for whatever reason, you have over 10 million in fines, was flying a sidewinder, and only have 200k in the bank couse you just fully outfitted you high end fleet along with a few midrange ships as a way to store credits?
What happens then? Do you just loose the 200k you have? What about the other 9,800,000 you owe? Does it go away because you don't have the cash? Are you stuck in limbo and unable to respawn?
What happens then? Do you just loose the 200k you have? What about the other 9,800,000 you owe? Does it go away because you don't have the cash? Are you stuck in limbo and unable to respawn?
Not sure what that has to do with the changes to bounties/fines - because you're talking about what happens when you're unable to pay outstanding fines after ending up at the rebuy screen, and that part hasn't changed - you're declared bankrupt. That was in the release manual. In which case, as I recall, all existing fines are cleared, before you respawn with 1,000 Cr and a stock Sidewinder.
It is fairly clear yes, but it means any pirates who are proud of their bounty, lose it. If we're happy with that... Fine...
Nah, not happy - I too would like the option to keep Wanted status and a gigantic expanding bounty if I want it. It isn't perfect. I'm just not completely convinced by your alternative, though it's pretty good. The issues seem mainly ones about which words to use. I've been trying to think of something else and failing.
Best I could come up with was this:
1. Bounties by default never expire.
2. When you get a bounty, you get a little email thing, up in the comms tab. It's the issuing authority, and they want you to acknowledge the crime and that if you do, in 7 days you can return to the system and pay the value of your bounty as a fine (actually, perhaps this all happens in the transaction tab - you can select a bounty like a mission to bring up an 'acknowledge/not now' dialog, with more info on the bounty. Otherwise the mail thing will fill up with lots of messages).
3. If you acknowledge them, the timer on your bounty starts. You are persona non-grata in their jurisdiction until it runs out. After that, becomes a legacy fine as now. And then you can return there and pay it off.
4. If you do NOT acknowledge them and ignore the message, the bounty never goes away. You are simply wanted in their space until you acknowledge the bounty, which is when the 7 day timer starts.
You would need some info for new players on the bounty in the transaction tab - 'SELECT TO RESOLVE' - so people don't fail to realise they have to do something about the bounty to start the timer.
But it would naturally suit the attitude in-lore of how you want to deal with the situation.
If you're law-abiding or just want to stay on that faction's good side, it's up to you to say 'I'm so sorry, I had no idea, of course I'll pay compensation, I would never knowingly break the law' - in other words, deal with the red tape surrounding the crime, in addition to the financial cost.
If you're a pirate who just doesn't care, you simply ignore it, which is entirely how it should be. So they end up leaving the bounty on you forever.
This also leaves the possibility of acknowledging your crimes in a given jurisdiction later, if you want to try to escape a much worse crime somewhere else.
I dunno. I think a system like that would cause a lot of complaints though. Even with safeguards... "I didn't know I had to acknowledge my crime with the authorities to be forgiven! I would have done that 14 days ago if I'd known! Now I've lost a week's play in that system! Not fair!" etc etc
Last edited:
What about your other ships you own that are stored elsewhere? Do you loose those too or keep them?