Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Jockey79]

I'm only worried that they were fairly acquired. It's like at a job where you are doing the exact same job with the exact same responsibilities as someone else, yet they get paid more than you. That's just not fair.

Fair, is having the same choices and options as everyone else.
As for getting paid, well that is also your choice. You get paid more, for doing more work and less socialising.
If you want to gather around the coffee machine for a chat every half an hour, you'll get paid less.

 

[gMcizzLe]

Nobody is paid more. Your analogy is flawed. You have one person who prefers to do their paper work at the bar in a night club and another who chooses to work in a quiet private office. Each person is paid the same for each piece of work they complete but the person trying to work at the bar actually gets less done because they are constantly jostled, interrupted and can't concentrate.

A better analogy then:

You are both paid the exact same, but you have a small risk of death or dismemberment in your duties versus the other guy. With that risk should come at least a little more reward.

 

[SteveLaw]

A better analogy then:

You are both paid the exact same, but you have a small risk of death or dismemberment in your duties versus the other guy. With that risk should come at least a little more reward.

If you don't like the risk get another job.

 

[Mouse]

I'm only worried that they were fairly acquired. It's like at a job where you are doing the exact same job with the exact same responsibilities as someone else, yet they get paid more than you. That's just not fair.

gMcizzle.. how can they NOT be fairly acquired? That is a key point right there. Are you saying that 2 people playing the game, one in Open one in Solo and working towards the same ship, that the one in Solo "cheated' or unfairly got their ship because they were not in open?

 

[gMcizzLe]

It's up to Frontier really - they have included the three game modes, the single shared galaxy state and the ability to switch between game modes on a session-by-session basis in the stated game design since the beginning of the Kickstarter, over two and a half years ago now.

Just the other day, DBOBE gave an interview to Arstechnica at E3 where he reiterated his stance that there is no "right" way to play the game.

The freedom of players to "play the game how you want to" has been granted to all of us - however that freedom does not allow any of us to dictate to others how to play.

Presumably players who choose to play in Open do so to affect other players and in turn be affected by them. To then complain that rate of progress in the game is adversely affected by other players would seem to be a bit of a contradiction.

Players can play how ever they want in their modes, but once a player crosses modes, it's unfair for those that had to work harder to acquire the same wealth in that different mode.

I only started playing the game recently, so I'm not familiar with all the kickstarter promises. I'm here posting because I'm voicing my opinion on how I think the game should be shaped and molded going forward, as is everyone else posting here on these forums.

 

[Cody]

They all sound alike - almost as if from a script.

 

[FuzzySpider]

I'm only worried that they were fairly acquired. It's like at a job where you are doing the exact same job with the exact same responsibilities as someone else, yet they get paid more than you. That's just not fair.

It's not the exact same job with the exact same responsibilities. It is the option to play on your own or play with others. You can decide what you like more - play alone or play with other people. If you play with other people they may well attack and kill you, thus making your game tougher.

If you don't like that you have the option to play solo.

What you really can't do, from the point of view of logic, is to willingly play multiplayer then complain that other players are effecting your game.

 

[DarkWalker]

I'm only worried that they were fairly acquired. It's like at a job where you are doing the exact same job with the exact same responsibilities as someone else, yet they get paid more than you. That's just not fair.

This is a game. As in, an activity that is done purely for the enjoyment of it, without any real world benefits. As such, many analogies with the real world, specially when it involves activities that are done for reasons other than direct enjoyment, tend to break down.

Why else do you think many games have dev-supplied cheat codes, modding capabilities (which can be, and often is, used to give out rewards above those of the vanilla game), allow choosing the difficulty level without affecting the rewards, etc? Games were never about finding a consistent rewards to effort/risk/responsibility/whatever ratio, but about having fun, about enjoying the experience.

BTW, even in the real world, you will find many people that choose to do things that pay less, or even that don't pay at all (volunteer work), just for the enjoyment of it. Which, given the nature of games, might be a better basis for an analogy.

 

[ARGH]

@ARGH

I suggest you read Post 1 and Post 3 of this thread.
It covers things like your accusations of "cheating" when people use the game as intended - which in this thread is considered baiting/trolling.
You will also learn more about the game design and the Devs stance on it. They like mode switching, they built the game around it and stated they are not changing it. (all comment and links in post 3).

So, quite simply put.

Devs want mode switching and are keeping it, regardless of your opinion.

i never accused anyone of cheating. i stated the current game mechanic of solo is like cheating in that it is unfair to the other play style, the pvp'er. it is like someone in world of warcraft that plays in a pvp server but has the ability to go invisible so he can farm the nodes without risk and then manipulate the auction house markets.

the "choice" that you guys keep defending is not a choice at all. it is an unbalanced game characteristic. if you have the choice to hide i should have the choice to seek. the open world mechanic allows this. it is a huge world. there is no need to have the open world manipulated by the solo world.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Players can play how ever they want in their modes, but once a player crosses modes, it's unfair for those that had to work harder to acquire the same wealth in that different mode.

I only started playing the game recently, so I'm not familiar with all the kickstarter promises. I'm here posting because I'm voicing my opinion on how I think the game should be shaped and molded going forward, as is everyone else posting here on these forums.

You should read the Kickstarter pitch then - the link is in my signature. There is no prime mode in this game and all modes are simply different settings on the matchmaking system. From the Kickstarter FAQ (note the date):

How does multiplayer work?

You simply play the game, and depending on your configuration (your choice) some of the other ships you meet as you travel around are real players as opposed to computer-controlled ships. It may be a friend you have agreed to rendezvous with here, or it may be another real player you have encountered by chance. All players will be part of a “Pilot’s Federation” – that is how they are distinguished from non-players – so you will be able to tell who is a player and who is a non-player easily.

You will be able to save your position in certain key places (probably just in space stations, but possibly while in hyperspace too, if we feel it is needed). A save-and-quit option will be freely available at those points, as will the subsequent reload, but there will be a game cost for a reload following player death. Your ship will still be intact in the condition it was when the save occurred, but there will be a game currency charge (referred to as an insurance policy) for this. This is to prevent the obvious exploit of friends cooperating and killing each other to get each other’s cargo. If you can’t pay, then it will accumulate as an in-game debt, and the police may chase you!

There are no multiplayer lobbies, and the game will be played across many servers, augmented by peer-to-peer traffic for fast responses. Session creation and destruction happens during the long-range hyperspace countdown and hyperspace effect (which is a few seconds only), so is transparent to the player.

We have the concept of “groups”. They can be private groups just of your friends or open groups (that form part of the game) based on the play styles people prefer, and the rules in each can be different. Players will begin in the group “All” but can change groups at will, though it will be possible to be banned from groups due to antisocial behaviour, and you will only meet others in that group.

Last updated: Wed, Nov 14 2012 12:52 PM BST

 

[SteveLaw]

Players can play how ever they want in their modes, but once a player crosses modes, it's unfair for those that had to work harder to acquire the same wealth in that different mode.

I only started playing the game recently, so I'm not familiar with all the kickstarter promises. I'm here posting because I'm voicing my opinion on how the game should be shaped and molded going forward, as is everyone else posting here on these forums.

The game will always have inequality. Some players started sooner, some play more hours per day/week, some have better hardware or reactions, some have a family, some have disabilities. Someone might have been earning their credits trading in safe, empty systems in Open while someone else might have been earning their credits through piracy and bounty hunting in Solo. It's not a game about competing on an equal basis, it's a game about playing for yourself. Stop worrying about what other players have or are doing.

 

[gMcizzLe]

gMcizzle.. how can they NOT be fairly acquired? That is a key point right there. Are you saying that 2 people playing the game, one in Open one in Solo and working towards the same ship, that the one in Solo "cheated' or unfairly got their ship because they were not in open?

To some degree, yes. Maybe it's not intentional, but acquiring wealth in Open is more difficult than in Solo. Whether that be with trading, where players may act out pirating on other players, or whether you go to a RES and there are more people present than there are wanted ships, and you aren't able to collect every bounty. Contrast that with Solo mode, where you would be able to go around and collect every single bounty.

 

[Seonid]

They all sound alike - almost as if from a script.

It's like a Rite of Passage for new forum members. I do like all this talk of risk, death and dismemberment by people playing a computer game...

 

[Robert Maynard]

i never accused anyone of cheating. i stated the current game mechanic of solo is like cheating in that it is unfair to the other play style, the pvp'er. it is like someone in world of warcraft that plays in a pvp server but has the ability to go invisible so he can farm the nodes without risk and then manipulate the auction house markets.

the "choice" that you guys keep defending is not a choice at all. it is an unbalanced game characteristic. if you have the choice to hide i should have the choice to seek. the open world mechanic allows this. it is a huge world. there is no need to have the open world manipulated by the solo world.

We are all told "play the game how you want to", not "play the game how other players want you to".

The game was pitched successfully with the core features in the stated game design (three game modes; single shared galaxy state; ability to switch modes at will) over two years ago. Despite much debate regarding the merits (or not) of these core features, the game launched with them intact over six months ago. Just the other day, DBOBE gave an interview to Arstechnica at E3 where he is quoted as stating:

There are no changes planned to separate solo and online saves, and players will continue to inhabit the same shared galaxy whether they’re in solo or multiplayer—again, continuing with Braben’s contention that there’s no ‘right’ way to play.

I very much doubt that these core game features are going to be changed now.

 

[SteveLaw]

acquiring wealth in Open is more difficult than in Solo.

Not if you're a pirate in Solo and a trader in Open.

 

[DarkWalker]

They all sound alike - almost as if from a script.

Because there are only a few arguments that can be used against Solo or mode switching. The "people will grief in Open and hide in Solo" argument, the "I had to go uphill in the snow both ways to get my ship, everyone must be forced to do so too" argument, the "only cowards use Solo, real players should stay in Open" argument, the "I've chosen to fight other players but it's unfair for it to reduce my earnings" argument, both used to argue for the removal of Solo and for completely segregating it from Open. Sometimes tempered with complaining about a perceived issue that isn't caused by Solo per see, but whose effects are felt differently by Solo and Open players, such as the poor way in which PP was implemented, or things that have nothing at all to do with it, such as XBox players being unable to play with PC and Mac players or those without a Live Gold subscription being stuck in Solo mode.

This debate has been ongoing since the early days of Kickstart, back in 2012, at least. For those that have been following it for even a small part of its story it will often feel cyclical, rehashed.

 

[Mouse]

To some degree, yes. Maybe it's not intentional, but acquiring wealth in Open is more difficult than in Solo. Whether that be with trading, where players may act out pirating on other players, or whether you go to a RES and there are more people present than there are wanted ships, and you aren't able to collect every bounty. Contrast that with Solo mode, where you would be able to go around and collect every single bounty.

you do realize that NPC's flee don't you? I've never collected every single bounty. either NPC clean ships get some first, the law gets em or they hyperspace out, so is not some magical Hello Kitty land where you bop around giggle and collect money from things. I've been destroyed by pirates, I've been interdicted, I've missed targets, I've had my cargo blown up, lost bounties.. please quit stressing on how OTHER players play the game and worrying on how they acquired things and just play and enjoy the game. If you can't and you want a game where everyone is forced into the same environment, there are other games available that provide that.

 

[Cody]

It's like a Rite of Passage for new forum members.

Ahh... looks like I missed out then. As for keyboard tough guys, yeah...

 

[SteveLaw]

They all sound alike - almost as if from a script.

We wear them out, they've had to send in the clones.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Note to all: Please avoid disparaging other forum members - it will only end up in another thread time-out.