Modes The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].

[Roybe]

Well I invisaged this little project with three goals in mind.

1. Have some fun.

2. See how reliable Open mode is in general.

3. Check the feasability of blockading systems as a strategy.

So it has to be in Open.

The contention is that Solo players have an unfair advantage because nobody is there to stop them. That might be true, it might however not be, or the real advantage might actually be miniscule, due to the instancing system. For this to be reliable a moderately populated system should really be used. Maybe Eravate, Kini or Kremainn?

My suggestions will give a solid basis to start from.

Can you even get 32 people that WANT to be together in Open together. If not how many can you get together before an new instance is started.

If you want to bypass this I can tell you the best size of a group, to be sure someone else can even be matched to it, is 2 or 3 (1 full wing hinders matchmaking, 2 wings effectively stops matchmaking). Anything larger and the system will generally open a new instance before adding to an existing one.

So single players run the blockade....groups up to 3 to stop them. I would also suggest two ways to create the blockader instance...create a wing for the blockade group or, try to randomly get 3 blockaders into the same instance...this is my curiosity being scratched...as I think if 3 'random' players get together there is more of a chance for matchmaking randoms into the instance less if there is a wing in the instance.

 

[FuzzySpider]

dunno if the moderate will help u want to test something so u need to be somewhere that u cant be distracted from other ppl imo

It's essential that other people can distract us. Remember we're not testing whether blockades would work in powerplay but whether it's even possible to form blockades in the game under current conditions - the behaviour of other players is very much a factor in that. Maybe it is easier to reach your destination in Solo? Or maybe the Open players will sometimes randomly interdict a blockader for some pew pew pew?

 

[Roybe]

It's essential that other people can distract us. Remember we're not testing whether blockades would work in powerplay but whether it's even possible to form blockades in the game under current conditions - the behaviour of other players is very much a factor in that. Maybe it is easier to reach your destination in Solo? Or maybe the Open players will sometimes randomly interdict a blockader for some pew pew pew?

If we open a thread and ask people not to join in...that pretty much guarantees this will occur.

Just the fact that we have started this discussion publicly will bring some of the locusts to the area. ;P

 

[fademist]

It's essential that other people can distract us. Remember we're not testing whether blockades would work in powerplay but whether it's even possible to form blockades in the game under current conditions - the behaviour of other players is very much a factor in that. Maybe it is easier to reach your destination in Solo? Or maybe the Open players will sometimes randomly interdict a blockader for some pew pew pew?

i thought the test would be only for the ppl that agreed to participate

 

[Faded Glory]

i thought the test would be only for the ppl that agreed to participate

The problem is, that unless the 'test' is just for fun, it has to be carried out in Open, and probably in a system with plenty of other traffic, as these are the types of places that our Open advocate friends claim to want to be able to successfully blockade.

 

[Dave1235]

Well I would say yes, and no. It's meant to be a test of the matchmaking system in Open, doing this in the middle of nowhere in a private group or friends list would kind of make that a non-test. External influences cannot be completely ruled out of course, and Sol is probably a bad idea, but if we can all agree on what exactly we are trying to achieve - it will make things so much easier to set up.

This is Jordan's idea, so I'll leave it up to him to decide the parameters. I'll help in any way I can, and look forward to participating.

I was thinking that we need to be in an out of the way system, I held off posting as I am still thinking this might not make the best test, depending on if we are just testing the mechanic or testing how it works in a realistic situation.

I think we are going to need more people to make it meaningful though, but I am happy to go with the flow.

Won't be around until 22.00 BST (GMT+1) next Saturday, maybe a little earlier as out with family.

 

[Roybe]

i thought the test would be only for the ppl that agreed to participate

The problem is, that unless the 'test' is just for fun, it has to be carried out in Open, and probably in a system with plenty of other traffic, as these are the types of places that our Open advocate friends claim to want to be able to successfully blockade.

LOL'ing because of Open vs. I know this is just getting the parameters set...but still....there is some humor to be had!

 

[Spook]

May be useful to have peeps speedtest.net three agreed servers before trying to instance (UK US and somewhere else) . Could give an insight to how quality of net connection impacts on matchmaking and who can see who.

Or maybe not....

 

[Asp Explorer]

May be useful to have peeps speedtest.net three agreed servers before trying to instance (UK US and somewhere else) . Could give an insight to how quality of net connection impacts on matchmaking and who can see who.

Or maybe not....

While speedtests are nice, they are not really reflective of matchmaking ability. Some ISP's see Elite UDP traffic and go all "oh noes, p2p stuff, it must be movie piracy!!! shove it to the end of the queue!" and some ISP's don't care. Some ISP's limit customers connection numbers, or they put them on the worst (cheapest) backhaul they can possibly find. Some ISP's use "free" routers to traffic shape other customers, and in some filthy cases actually provide DNS to other peers. Some ISP's see IP's not belonging to their own company and throttle the crap out of those links, to steer customers on to their own services.

It's all completely disgusting.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

I tried doing some faction grinding around PLX 695 last week and there were several stations with sub-50 traffic reports round there. Lowest was 24 and 10 of those were my Courier!

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

It's essential that other people can distract us. Remember we're not testing whether blockades would work in powerplay but whether it's even possible to form blockades in the game under current conditions - the behaviour of other players is very much a factor in that. Maybe it is easier to reach your destination in Solo? Or maybe the Open players will sometimes randomly interdict a blockader for some pew pew pew?

You make a good point, I just think that hurts the blockaders a lot more than the runners. The runners just go right to the station, the blockaders camp sc and wait.

 

[Robert Maynard]

You make a good point, I just think that hurts the blockaders a lot more than the runners. The runners just go right to the station, the blockaders camp sc and wait.

Is that not the whole point of a blockade though - patrolling in wait of incursion?

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Can anyone think of a decent system yet? If anyone even mentions "Hutton Orbital" I'm out.

I can't think of any yet but would it be a good idea to post it on the forums? That will attract an unsavory crowd and skew the results.

 

[Asp Explorer]

You make a good point, I just think that hurts the blockaders a lot more than the runners.

I'd jovially disagree here Jordan - I think it's likely that the blockaders would get help from the pew-pew crew. After all, they will know that there are targets running around simply to evade blockaders and score docking points in the system, who have no interest in fighting back to score points. Pew-Pews will simply blow up ships, and probably take a pop at the Blockaders too. Runners will probably see this happening, and jump in to Blockaders instances to help them shoot the pew-pews, say Hi and then jump away again to score more docking points.

This could be awesome!

I can't think of any yet but would it be a good idea to post it on the forums? That will attract an unsavory crowd and skew the results.

Well that bit is simple - once you have reached a decision simply PM the participants with a place and time and the rules. I doubt anyone involved will leak information to ruin the test, or the fun - and if that does happen, then that is simply the metagame to blame.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

Is that not the whole point of a blockade though - patrolling in wait of incursion?

yea I meant that the blockaders spend longer in the system thus are more likely to be attacked.

 

[Robert Maynard]

yea I meant that the blockaders spend longer in the system thus are more likely to be attacked.

Thems the breaks of the job they take....

 

[FuzzySpider]

I'd jovially disagree here Jordan - I think it's likely that the blockaders would get help from the pew-pew crew.

I think Jordan is right about this one - the pew pew pew crowd will harm the blockaders more as they'll hit any target. People trying to blockade the system are going to be there for a considerably longer period of time than someone trying to simply head straight for the system capital station and get inside that letterbox.

This isn't intentional on the part of the pew pew pew brigade, their actions are as random as they are pointless.

It does make me wonder about something else though. In the case of powerplay it's fairly easy to spot who you should be killing - enemy powers in contested systems. But in the case of blockading a CG which is not affiliated with powerplay how would someone forming a blockade know who to attack? They may be interdicting and destroying normal trade rather than preventing a community goal from being reached without knowing, while actual CG trade slips through during these friendly fire incidents.

The test is a good plan, but even thinking about it raises serious doubts about how effective a blockade can possibly be in this game as things stand now.

 

[Jordan Cobalt]

It does make me wonder about something else though. In the case of powerplay it's fairly easy to spot who you should be killing - enemy powers in contested systems. But in the case of blockading a CG which is not affiliated with powerplay how would someone forming a blockade know who to attack? They may be interdicting and destroying normal trade rather than preventing a community goal from being reached without knowing, while actual CG trade slips through during these friendly fire incidents.

The test is a good plan, but even thinking about it raises serious doubts about how effective a blockade can possibly be in this game as things stand now.

It's actually easier than you think. Unless the system is an incredibly popular system to begin with, there's very few non CG traders in the system. If there was anyone running a trade route in a system that was CG'd, they would quickly move on, or switch to solo.

During the 3 goals I did blockade, the number of players I interdicted without the cargo in question were rare. Except diso one, but even more than 70% of the time they had metal rather than rares. I mistakenly interdicted bounty hunters more often than non participating traders in the other ones(what kind of bounty hunter operates without a fsd interdictor and kill warrant scanner).

 

[Neokortex]

just my 2 cents: From the very first day, I played in Open only. But as total nub, I got shot there a couple of times even from groups of players for no reason. Since then I play Solo only to explore and trade (in Tradeconda now).

I played many many PVP-MMOs for more than 10 years and I dont mind dieng in that if its balance. But here I see only disadvantages to go into Open as long as I dont want to fight.

But get me right, I would love that we all play in Open. Just with a far better balance system.

 

[atak2]

just my 2 cents: From the very first day, I played in Open only. But as total nub, I got shot there a couple of times even from groups of players for no reason. Since then I play Solo only to explore and trade (in Tradeconda now).

I played many many PVP-MMOs for more than 10 years and I dont mind dieng in that if its balance. But here I see only disadvantages to go into Open as long as I dont want to fight.

I have tried in a small way to address the trader/explorer issues with open play by giving pirates reasons to want to leave you alive and the worry of gaining Raider status (i.e. ultra-wanted) if they keep shooting unaligned players for no reason.