Nothing. FD decided on another direction and just forgot to tell anyone.
Petition to bring back the DDF/DDA and get back on track.
- Thread starter Sanderson
- Start date
Nothing. FD decided on another direction and just forgot to tell anyone.
i am sure you do realise that FDEV shares are hold mainly (80%) by themselves (DB still 50%, the rest amongst senior excs, staff, ETB). the board in this case essentially owns the company, they are not fooling themselves. annual reports are not fun & games, they are ideally serious documents to allow shareholders like many on this forum to be informed about the strategy, performance, underlying financial position and the outlook of the reporting company. look at the volumes FDEV deals in, private shares by mainly backers/affiliates i would guess
they are legally binding documents that you can & will be held responsible for.
these annual reports have been posted on this forum, too. until that particular section got a bit super-silly (like the rest of it really
)*the regular way would be the board doing the reporting, to its shareholders
+1
from me. This should be a Poll thing maybe? That way we can easily count the yay/nay's and see if this could be a thing (don't anyone hold their breath!).
And for everyone not understanding what it is all about, go follow the links (one in the first post might also be a good idea?) and read some threads in the DDA before commenting perhaps? You don't have to read everything, but browse it a bit first
from me. This should be a Poll thing maybe? That way we can easily count the yay/nay's and see if this could be a thing (don't anyone hold their breath!).
And for everyone not understanding what it is all about, go follow the links (one in the first post might also be a good idea?) and read some threads in the DDA before commenting perhaps? You don't have to read everything, but browse it a bit first
Actions speak louder than words. I actually remember them having to be continually reminded about it, much like many other promises.. And as I stated a while back most of the devs weren't up for it.. I quite clearly remembering hearing comments to that effect from some of the devs. You can spin stuff all you like Kerrash but its hard to really accept your points when you are so clearly biased. Effectively you are an employee of Frontier now.
They planned for the DDF? Er, first I remember was them wanting to give away what the DDF was meant to be to all the backers. The DDF was at best a back of the envelope, overnight, thought process. Its funny but as soon as the project got funded why did decision turn into discussion? FD immediately peed of heaps of people, including myself and it was a real eye-opener considering we were all really enthusiastic and excited for the project and had given them a heap of cash to secure the project. So FD need to take responsibility for that.. It certainly set the mood from the very start.
I think a lot of people put in a huge amount of time and effort to the DDF but Frontier ballsed it up from the start imo. I remember once having a discussion with Brookes about it, and I was told they wouldnt tolerate me 'hassling' people - after an exchange in which I merely congratulated all the backers when Frontiers first move was to offer up the DDF to all from KS.. Not a nice way to treat people who have gone out of their way to get a project started hey..
FD needed to be constantly prodded re the DDF so I really don't accept what Kerrash says at all.
These things are all in the past and to be honest with you I'm rather happy the DDF has been ended. The amount of personal abuse I received from other members was pretty bad, often for simply having a differing view.
Ultimately, if they wanted to make it work they would have. Case in point, where are the near god like powers? And why the heck are we still having to ask about this SIX months after the game was released?
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But my point is that the parties involved in this discussion are just us players, who in general know very little about the development process of games and know nothing about what is going on behind the doors of Frontier Developments. Changing our opinions does not matter at all in this respect.
We are not discussing with the developer how they should do their job, nor should we mind you.
I hope FD looks upon these discussions with mild amusement and perhaps a bit of annoyance at the ignorance of those involved in it (including myself).
I feel too many people try to walk in the shoes of the developer, and do their job for them, and also do not seem to realize that this enormous project is still in full development and will be for a time to come. How can they complain about the direction of a game, or the lack of certain features that are in the DDF when they know next to nothing about what is planned and how it is planned and when it is planned?
That is why I think this is a futile discussion.
What I do know is that FD has delivered an extraordinary space sim of great quality so far and they deserve our trust.
This is their dream too. I think this game will be FD's legacy and they know it and they want to make this come true.
I have done dozens of proposals myself and sometimes my view on things differs from FD's, but never have I tried to do their job for them via these forums.
They are professionals and have been in the business for a long time. I trust they know how to do this and in the end this is their game and I am along for the ride.
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At least things are not as bad as
http://www.polygon.com/2015/2/11/80...s-a-failure-of-trust-and-a-warning-for-others
http://www.polygon.com/2015/2/11/80...s-a-failure-of-trust-and-a-warning-for-others
Yep, you guessed it. They can transform anything into a console game in a blink of an eye.
Well then they should have just listed a KS with no details at all and said "We want to make a game we want to play, not you, so give us money." also "Please disregard everything we've said as we will change our minds months before we tell you about it and then remain silent." Perhaps they shouldn't have made pie in the sky promises like the DDF members influencing the game or having "almost god like powers" (That's from David not from Peter Molyneux, although it's a bit confusing) or leading us to believe all the suggestions and ideas that THEY wrote down was just a KS perk meant for fun and never intended to be used.
While we're at it, how about the rest of the KS/backer rewards? Where are they at? I mean, if FD has time to make at least two more games why can't they fulfill the rewards first? FD has done an about face on many many things, the DDA, IMO, is probably the worst one.
If you really think that is all that is missing from exploration and aren't just trying to be smart I don't know how to reply to you, sorry.
Give it time.
as you point out, this all sounds like a nightmare to manage & control, indeed. again, if someone replies to me in a professional environment in the way that members of the ddf have turned on themselves and FDEVs... thanks but no thanks. so in that respect i can understand the ideal of a DDF but would and was always weary of its implementation (despite backing for it)
+1
of course I want E : D back on track, but I would really love to see the things done, already "on list" before starting a new discussion and reopening of the DDA for a next round of (hopefully good) ideas.
There are still many things missing and much of that what's already in, is far away from perfect.
of course I want E : D back on track, but I would really love to see the things done, already "on list" before starting a new discussion and reopening of the DDA for a next round of (hopefully good) ideas.
There are still many things missing and much of that what's already in, is far away from perfect.
Well I've long put it all behind me to be honest. It was an experience thats for sure. In many ways I'm pleased to have made a contribution to secure a new Elite game - it was the intention from the start, and hopefully helped to avoid some very odd things appearing - or not lolz ( i.e the transponders).
However, knowing what I do now I should have just backed the project for £20.. Could have avoided a lot of grief and drama along the way.
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Hmmm... Now you come to mention it
+1
The ideas made by the DDF AND FD back then are a LOT better than what FD is putting out now.
Before even more people go off on yet more tangents, generating angry replies, etc., lets clarify a few things, shall we.
DDF: The forum, and the people involved in it. A talking shop. All the DDF members did was talk about proposals that FD put in front of us. All the proposals came from FD - they wrote them up, all we did was comment. As a forum it started off great and continued great for a while. Then FD started to miss a few things they were going to propose to us, or delivered them quite late. Stuff shifted back, and it appeared that enthusiasm on their side died. Eventually is spluttered to a halt - nothing to talk about. That was a long time ago - at least a year. No reason has been given to the DDF members for this falling away of enthusiasm. Indeed, they did not even declare it dead until about 3 months or so ago, though it had clearly been pining for the fjords for a long time. It seemed to me that whilst it was up and running, the DDF did a pretty good job. In general threads were better behaved than on the open forum, and most members seemed to have an attitude of 'for the good of the game', rather than 'what I want is', though some topics got a little heated. Compared to the open forum there were far fewer naughty forumites doing stuff like deliberate straw men, though there were some.
DDA: The proposals from FD in a forum where everyone can read them. They are not 'complete', and unless I'm missing something, even the DDF members cannot see the threads that are missing. In general, however, most of that missing stuff is the 'first proposal' plus all the discussion that followed it, so we have the most important stuff. I do not think that anyone in the DDF expected the DDA to be delivered on day 1 - it was obviously far too big. However, just like on the main forum, I suspect most of us expected more of it to be there.
The thread is actually discussing two different things: The DDF and the DDA. The DDF has, eventually, been declared dead by FD. I don't think there is any serious prospect of it coming back to life. I think this is a mistake, but it's not my game or my company (though I do own a little bit of it). I have not followed the details of things like powerplay because I have no interest in them. But from the threads on the forum, it seems likely that had those designs been waved in front of a group of players (such as the DDF, since it existed, and the members had paid for the privilege, but actually any reasonably representative group would have done) some of those issues would have been raised in advance, and FD might have rethought a few things, ending up with a 'better' end product, or getting to the end product cheaper because they would not have had to rework so much. But, we are where we are.
The DDA, on the other hand is still a treasure trove of design intentions, all of which came from, and were presumably once blessed by FD. There is already enough in there to keep FD occupied for many years, should they decide to focus on it. And they are doing stuff that was not part of the DDA. Perhaps some of those things were always part of the grand vision (as planetary landing and going walkabout were, but the DDF never got to talk about those) but simply did not get waved at the DDF when FD ran out of enthusiasm. We don't know, and FD are not saying.
DDF: The forum, and the people involved in it. A talking shop. All the DDF members did was talk about proposals that FD put in front of us. All the proposals came from FD - they wrote them up, all we did was comment. As a forum it started off great and continued great for a while. Then FD started to miss a few things they were going to propose to us, or delivered them quite late. Stuff shifted back, and it appeared that enthusiasm on their side died. Eventually is spluttered to a halt - nothing to talk about. That was a long time ago - at least a year. No reason has been given to the DDF members for this falling away of enthusiasm. Indeed, they did not even declare it dead until about 3 months or so ago, though it had clearly been pining for the fjords for a long time. It seemed to me that whilst it was up and running, the DDF did a pretty good job. In general threads were better behaved than on the open forum, and most members seemed to have an attitude of 'for the good of the game', rather than 'what I want is', though some topics got a little heated. Compared to the open forum there were far fewer naughty forumites doing stuff like deliberate straw men, though there were some.
DDA: The proposals from FD in a forum where everyone can read them. They are not 'complete', and unless I'm missing something, even the DDF members cannot see the threads that are missing. In general, however, most of that missing stuff is the 'first proposal' plus all the discussion that followed it, so we have the most important stuff. I do not think that anyone in the DDF expected the DDA to be delivered on day 1 - it was obviously far too big. However, just like on the main forum, I suspect most of us expected more of it to be there.
The thread is actually discussing two different things: The DDF and the DDA. The DDF has, eventually, been declared dead by FD. I don't think there is any serious prospect of it coming back to life. I think this is a mistake, but it's not my game or my company (though I do own a little bit of it). I have not followed the details of things like powerplay because I have no interest in them. But from the threads on the forum, it seems likely that had those designs been waved in front of a group of players (such as the DDF, since it existed, and the members had paid for the privilege, but actually any reasonably representative group would have done) some of those issues would have been raised in advance, and FD might have rethought a few things, ending up with a 'better' end product, or getting to the end product cheaper because they would not have had to rework so much. But, we are where we are.
The DDA, on the other hand is still a treasure trove of design intentions, all of which came from, and were presumably once blessed by FD. There is already enough in there to keep FD occupied for many years, should they decide to focus on it. And they are doing stuff that was not part of the DDA. Perhaps some of those things were always part of the grand vision (as planetary landing and going walkabout were, but the DDF never got to talk about those) but simply did not get waved at the DDF when FD ran out of enthusiasm. We don't know, and FD are not saying.
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Exactly this.
To avoid anymore PP type things, IMO, the DDF should be reopened and to avoid anymore PP type things the DDA should be implemented BEFORE any PP type things get months of work on them.
The idea of a combat arena came up in the DDF in the context of the Founder's World and Shinrarta Dezhra. I know because I advocated for one. I thought it might be a good "gentleman's" area to settle disputes between Pilot's Federation members. And it would be lots of fun in any event for anyone who enjoys PvP. And with the way it's being structured, perhaps there will be the occasional tournament. I see nothing wrong CQC, and while it was hardly a core proposal in DDA documents, it was in there.