Petition to bring back the DDF/DDA and get back on track.

Iskariot

Iskariot
Sanderson said:
Well then they should have just listed a KS with no details at all and said "We want to make a game we want to play, not you, so give us money." also "Please disregard everything we've said as we will change our minds months before we tell you about it and then remain silent." Perhaps they shouldn't have made pie in the sky promises like the DDF members influencing the game or having "almost god like powers" (That's from David not from Peter Molyneux, although it's a bit confusing) or leading us to believe all the suggestions and ideas that THEY wrote down was just a KS perk meant for fun and never intended to be used.
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The DDF was a Design Discussion forum... not a Design Decision Forum.

I think we players have had plenty of influence, small and big and still have.
In the end FD is the actual developer. The devs are the ones who have to make the final design decisions.
There is no way around that and there will always be someone who wants something to be different or have something now that is planned for next year.
Just let them do their job the way they think it should be done.

In the end FD can only make the game the way they really want it. It can not be otherwise. They are the devs, not we.
We players clearly have influence. That is undeniable. But we do not decide.
Braben almost literally said on video that Kickstarter enabled him to make the game he wanted to play himself... meaning not having a publisher breathing in his neck.
So yes... FD is making the game they want to play and we are along for the ride.
They cannot cater to thousands of individual and very often contradicting wishes.
And very important: They cannot deliver everything instantly. They are not as huge as UBI or Rockstar.

So far I am quite happy with the result to say the least and I have the patience to wait for what is to come. I think it will be awesome.
Judging from what FD has delivered so far I feel we can trust them to deliver.

If you want more influence then you should apply for a management job at FD.
You currently are just one of the many that play ED and your influence is as it should be: very limited.
 
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AnnuverScotinExile

AnnuverScotinExile
Atinus said:
The idea of a combat arena came up in the DDF in the context of the Founder's World and Shinrarta Dezhra. I know because I advocated for one. I thought it might be a good "gentleman's" area to settle disputes between Pilot's Federation members. And it would be lots of fun in any event for anyone who enjoys PvP. And with the way it's being structured, perhaps there will be the occasional tournament. I see nothing wrong CQC, and while it was hardly a core proposal in DDA documents, it was in there.
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We also discussed it in the context of a 'simulator' that would give people the opportunity to 'try out' ships that they could not afford. It was clearly discussed. But interestingly, when it was discussed FD said that it did not fit their vision. Clearly it does now.

I actually do not have a major problem with CQC being implemented. Especially as they have done it as a thing 'on the side, not part of the game as a whole. If it was necessary to get a wheelbarrow-full of money from Microsoft, then that justifies it. My biggest complaint is that I disagree with the prioritisation - but then everyone has their own priority list. However, when exploring is so rudimentary that it struggles to reach the dizzy heights of 'placeholder', doing yet more stuff for the section of the player base that has had most love in the last year is very annoying. I do fear for whether we will ever get anything even close to the vision that I bought into. As time goes by, it probably gets harder to get stuff past the bean counters. It is easy to sell CQC to the finance folks, since they can see that a significant number of players will buy because of it. Much harder to make that argument about proper exploration or smuggling or level 2 NPCs or all the other things in the DDA with little or no sign of them ever coming to the game.
 

el_tel

el_tel
Maybe the reason for the demise of the DDF was that every time FD made a proposal, the DDF members debated/suggested improvements that resulted in something that was more complex than originally proposed.

The added complexity meant that more dev time than planned would be needed to implement the revised proposal, and more dev time means more cost, so it was all getting too expensive to implement, blowing FD'S budget out of the water.
 

Nikonthenet

N
+1 from me. Though I'd be equally happy with what was advertised in the Dev Diaries.

ISKARIOT, you are terribly misinformed on so many points i can't even begin...
 

Atinus

A
Winterwalker said:
The minute PP links to the bulletin boards, I think FD will really have cracked it.
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That's been my gripe with it. I don't find Powerplay all that accessible. It'd be nice if a power tried to recruit me via the bulletin board to complete the occasional mission without having to pledge.
 
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etien

etien
The truth is this game is loosing me. Paid a fair amount of $$$ in the KS as I had a found memory of Elite Frontier in the time.
I was hoping for some kind of mix of space exploration, shooting some aliens/baddies, unique stuff to discover and so on, think mix of good old elite and freespace
At first I was happy, with the new graphics and so on; hopping for me stuff (comets, planet landing, more low orbit activities, borealis etc)
then came power play. It reminded that I am old and that games kid play nowdays are not of interest to me. Why they broke the game like that, no clue, but they are loosing me.
I am sure that like it happens for the city building genre, an indy team will get it and redo something great one day, maybe not as big in size, but deeper in depth/content.
The very idea that I am going to loose stuff if I dont log regularly makes me not logging at all, what s the point?
Too bad
Etienne
 
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AnnuverScotinExile

AnnuverScotinExile
Iskariot said:
The DDF was a Design Discussion forum... not a Design Decision Forum.
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It certainly was. I have often wondered whether the original name was just unthinking or a deliberate ploy to suck people in. Whilst I cannot be bothered to go to the kickstarter to check, I do not recall ever thinking that we would make actual decisions - it was always FD's game, after all.
 

Atinus

A
AnnuverScotinExile said:
It was clearly discussed. But interestingly, when it was discussed FD said that it did not fit their vision. Clearly it does now.
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Now my memory might be failing, but where did they ever say that arenas were a no-go? I don't remember it being discounted. I remember there was vigorous debate on both sides, but don't remember any decision being handed down. Maybe I missed it...?
 

Sanderson

Sanderson
Atinus said:
The idea of a combat arena came up in the DDF in the context of the Founder's World and Shinrarta Dezhra. I know because I advocated for one. I thought it might be a good "gentleman's" area to settle disputes between Pilot's Federation members. And it would be lots of fun in any event for anyone who enjoys PvP. And with the way it's being structured, perhaps there will be the occasional tournament. I see nothing wrong CQC, and while it was hardly a core proposal in DDA documents, it was in there.
Click to expand...

That's not quite the same as a seperate, timed exclusive xbox deathmatch thing that was produced. If I remember right, it was turned down by FD. Not only that but, wasn't the entire idea of an "arena" tossed out as well?
 

AnnuverScotinExile

AnnuverScotinExile
el_tel said:
Maybe the reason for the demise of the DDF was that every time FD made a proposal, the DDF members debated/suggested improvements that resulted in something that was more complex than originally proposed.

The added complexity meant that more dev time than planned would be needed to implement the revised proposal, and more dev time means more cost, so it was all getting too expensive to implement, blowing FD'S budget out of the water.
Click to expand...

Er, no. Only FD ever made proposals that went anywhere. Nothing the DDF said made it more complex. It could only become more complex if FD reconsidered because of the feedback they had received.
 

AnnuverScotinExile

AnnuverScotinExile
Atinus said:
Now my memory might be failing, but where did they ever say that arenas were a no-go? I don't remember it being discounted. I remember there was vigorous debate on both sides, but don't remember any decision being handed down. Maybe I missed it...?
Click to expand...

And my memory might be failing too. I am of that age. But I certainly have a strong impression that was the case, but cannot be bothered to trawl through the DDA to prove it (indeed, that may not be possible because some of the threads are not there any more). I have that impression because I was in favour of it as a simulator (rather than an arena) to help training on new ships, or to just play with a ship you would never be able to afford.
 

steevaavoo

steevaavoo
AnnuverScotinExile said:
The name originally had Decision, yes. I don't think the description ever suggested that we would decide anything, though.
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Glad my memory isn't faulty!

As much as the frequent spelling errors in and out of game would suggest otherwise - I find it hard to believe that such a huge change in meaning could be put down to a simple mistake.

Then again, we humans are awfully adept at finding patterns where none necessarily exist.

Put into the context of FDev's general lack of - or distortion of - communication, it does seem iffy though.

Still, I'm a recently disillusioned PB backer with a DDF member father (who pledged beyond that level because, and I quote: "I want to see this game made - and I don't care if I never even play it, just as long as I know it's in the world".)

So perhaps my view is just distorted by upset. It's just that when I go back and describe to him the elements present in the game that irk me these days, his disappointment is unmistakeable. Even when I try to brighten it with "but it is very cool that we have the whole galaxy to (instantly, without probes or much effort at all) explore!"

Sorry everyone. My ire is up it appears.
 
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CreepyD

C
+1

The stuff in there is the outline for a brilliant game - the game I've been waiting for, as I'm sure most of you have.
Every aspect of the game would have much more depth than it does now - much more 'complete'.
That would also remove the grinding we currently have.

I'd much rather a whole patch was devoted to implementing some of that stuff (which is pretty much finishing all the systems currently in the game), rather than something new like CQC or PP.
I like the concept of PP a lot, but again it feels completely unfinished like the rest of the game.
 

AnnuverScotinExile

AnnuverScotinExile
steevaavoo said:
As much as the frequent spelling errors in and out of game would suggest otherwise - I find it hard to believe that such a huge change in meaning could be put down to a simple mistake.
Click to expand...

I prefer to put it down to a mistake, because otherwise it implies things about FD that I still hope are not true. You can understand why posters who do not believe it was an accident are using the 'bait and switch' phrase.
 
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