Unknown Artefact (or artifact) Community Thread - The Canonn

[Jmanis]

I think the link you just posted proves my point about working backwards from what you think the "message" is? You start with Ross 154, and then "find" it in the message, even though you yourself say several of the letters are difficult if not impossible to hear in morse in that post.

So, that's what I've been trying to explain (and likely failing at). I've just gone through over 20 different samples to produce the alphabet of these.

Were the assumptions about it being morse wrong at all, I should've hit dire straits at the second sample, maybe the 3rd, if I was lucky. I pretty much found every symbol I was looking for on first pass, using the symbols extracted from, say Ross 154 (being R, O, S, 1, 5, 4) and using it to separate and extract others.

e.g using the "O" symbol as my split in "COL" to extract the C and L symbols. That means, for C and L to be right, the extraction of O had to be right. If O was wrong, then C and L would be *more* wrong. So further analysis of this in sounds like "BERNOULLI SETTLEMENT" would well and truly fail.

So,,, basically if it wasn't morse, I couldn't have even come close to producing some sort of alphabet, purely from the amount of cross-referencing I did when extracting.

---
I tried to explain this is basically a plain-text crypt attack, and sure, it may be that I've lucked out, and the 21st pattern completely shatters the theory it's morse. That's why, based off the extractions so far, I synthesised EKURU A 1. If the recording comes back and it matches, then the extractions are correct.

 

[EAGLE 5]

And to think for a brief moment... I thought the UA was part of the solution to the mysterious disappearance of Aster's rings.

Back to the drawing board.

 

[bitstorm]

I think the link you just posted proves my point

Well the question was asked if were even sure it's morse code.

I think the one I linked (apart from the first letter which merges into the honk) makes it pretty clear, it's all there you can hear it.

One reason it's difficult without knowing what to expect is that it's difficult to hear the separation between letters.

Say I give you a string of morse ..-.-.-.... well that could represent "eeteteteeee" or "innnie" or "urdi" or umpteen other variations.

But one variation happens to be "earth" and say that happen to be produced when the nearest body was Earth.

Well as a one off it may be a coincidence but if you repeat that quite a few times under different circumstances and it keeps matching the local body I think it's a fair conclusion that it's morse for the local body.

What I'd like to suggest is for people who think it might not be morse, please provide an example where the chittering does not line up with the local body.

 

[clavain]

And to think for a brief moment... I thought the UA was part of the solution to the mysterious disappearance of Aster's rings.

Back to the drawing board.

They likely used the rings when "they" terraformed (ammonianized?) Merlin. It was an ice world in FFE, IIRC it is a (somewhat cold) water world now.

Remember, no fishing!

 

[Chaodiurn]

Not entirely convinced yet, but this is is the best ED thread for bl00dy ages so thanks for that folks!

Bloody actually isn't bloody censored.

I tried today for about 4 hours to get my hands on an UA in Timocani, all by interdicting NPC ships, waiting at the nav beacon and searching USS / WSS / SSS. Ended the search when my Python got destroyed by 6 elite Vultures in a SSS. Scanned T7 and T9 ships, just to be sure. Lots of military weapon transports though. Guess many here tried harder, just to share my bad luck in that regard.

 

[clavain]

Say I give you a string of morse ..-.-.-.... well that could represent "eeteteteeee" or "innnie" or "urdi" or umpteen other variations.

But one variation happens to be "earth" and say that happen to be produced when the nearest body was Earth.

Well as a one off it may be a coincidence but if you repeat that quite a few times under different circumstances and it keeps matching the local body I think it's a fair conclusion that it's morse for the local body.

What I'd like to suggest is for people who think it might not be morse, please provide an example where the chittering does not line up with the local body.

Right, but I guess my point is that you took Earth (or Ross 154) and put it in Morse, and then went and "found" it in the chittering. You did not "find" an unknown string of Morse, and then decode it to be Earth (or Ross 154) without knowing that those were possible soluitions, or in fact the solution you wanted. Essentially hearing what you want to hear, working backwards from what you want it to be.

If I had a UA, and could actually hear any Morse in it, I would be happy to try. ;-)

 

[EAGLE 5]

They likely used the rings when "they" terraformed (amonnianized?) Merlin. It was an ice world in FFE, IIRC it is a (somewhat cold) water world now.

An interesting theory though I don't know what they would use all that rock (or worse ice) for in the terraforming process. Merlin would probably have needed just a healthy dosage of greenhouse gas generators to up its temperature and melt the ice. The world itself had an oxygen atmosphere it was just too cold to be comfortable much like Antartica.

Also the Thargoids were interested in it just as it was so I doubt we'd go make them mad by changing it up, and it wasn't very valuable other than for fish production. I really hope they keep it that way because the two previous Frontiers really cemented its place in the Elite Lore.

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Right, but I guess my point is that you took Earth (or Ross 154) and put it in Morse, and then went and "found" it in the chittering. You did not "find" an unknown string of Morse, and then decode it to be Earth (or Ross 154) without knowing that those were possible soluitions. Essentially hearing what you want to hear, working backwards from what you want it to be.

Honestly (and I do believe QorbeQ did this) we need someone who is not an interested party and who frankly doesn't play nor care about the game to do the listening. QorbeQ had it right up until he started feeding the decoder some of the answers. He really needed him to work for them because there will always be the doubt that subconsciously his mind settled for what he heard was the "right" answer.

 

[clavain]

An interesting theory though I don't know what they would use all that rock (or worse ice) for in the terraforming process. Merlin would probably have needed just a healthy dosage of greenhouse gas generators to up its temperature and melt the ice. The world itself had an oxygen atmosphere it was just too cold to be comfortable much like Antartica.

Also the Thargoids were interested in it just as it was so I doubt we'd go make them mad by changing it up, and it wasn't very valuable other than for fish production. I really hope they keep it that way because the two previous Frontiers really cemented its place in the Elite Lore.

Unless it was not us that did the "terraforming" aka "ammonianization". The "no fishing" is related to the Thargoid interest - check out the FFE lore.

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Honestly (and I do believe QorbeQ did this) we need someone who is not an interested party and who frankly doesn't play nor care about the game to do the listening. QorbeQ had it right up until he started feeding the decoder some of the answers. He really needed him to work for them because there will always be the doubt that subconsciously his mind settled for what he heard was the "right" answer.

This, +1 and a bunch more. And they should not know what system the recording came from or anything else for that matter, so they have no subconscious possible solution in their head.

 

[Dr.Evanzan]

Right, but I guess my point is that you took Earth (or Ross 154) and put it in Morse, and then went and "found" it in the chittering. You did not "find" an unknown string of Morse, and then decode it to be Earth (or Ross 154) without knowing that those were possible soluitions, or in fact the solution you wanted. Essentially hearing what you want to hear, working backwards from what you want it to be.

I think you are getting a bit too hung up on approach; it doesn't really matter whether the approach used is top-down or bottom-up as long as it stays consistent with the data.
What is notable about the details that Jmanis/QorbeQ have been deciphering is that subsequent results have continued to back up the initial theory rather than undermine it - which almost certainly would have happened by now if there was nothing in this.

Anyway, this discussion will soon be put to bed when Wishblend gets a recording of EKURU A 1 to compare to the 'artificially' generated version created by Jmanis.

On another note, I think Wishblend deserves a medal for all her hard work on these experiments.
I've lost count of the number of tests she has successfully performed now without losing the UA.
As I sadly found out myself, it is all too easy to accidentally lose a UA.
Props also to Ratking15 for his efforts as guardian of the 2nd UA.
Can I propose that they are both hailed as 'Custodian' rank from this point forth?

 

[simulacrae]

Love this thread ! You guys are AWESOME - I am constantly amazed at the various attempts to get to the bottom of this

I truly hope that ED does not have the Artefact talking in Morse code. If it is transmitting anything intelligible I am still hoping it would be related to something in game (such as emissions from astronomical objects).

 

[Dr.Evanzan]

One thing that is missing from that list is 'Selling it at Leonard Nimoy Station'. Its a shame that these things are soooo rare that nobody wants to 'lose' it, so its unlikely to be tested unfortunately. I suggest it because not only is that the only station mentioned in the only massive clue we have (Wings Trailer), right at the end they say "right lets get to the station and see what this thing is worth." IF that's a clue, it doesn't get much more obvious than that, just saying.

[edit] assuming this hasn't been done already of course.

Yes, I mentioned this before and I think it would be well worth 'sacrificing' a UA for this purpose.
I know that both Ratking15 and myself have independently taken UAs to Leonard Nimoy station and not seen any interesting bulletin board missions, but neither of us actually sold one there.
In fact, I've not seen confirmation from anyone that they have sold one at all.

If I ever manage to actually win the lottery and find one in Timocani then I will be taking it straight to Leonard Nimoy station to sell and see if anything happens.

 

[clavain]

I think you are getting a bit too hung up on approach; it doesn't really matter whether the approach used is top-down or bottom-up as long as it stays consistent with the data.
What is notable about the details that Jmanis/QorbeQ have been deciphering is that subsequent results have continued to back up the initial theory rather than undermine it - which almost certainly would have happened by now if there was nothing in this.

Possibly - but scientific investigation is about process (the scientific method) and not predetermining your results, then "finding" that result in your data.

Anyway, this discussion will soon be put to bed when Wishblend gets a recording of EKURU A 1 to compare to the 'artificially' generated version created by Jmanis.

I would have more faith in results based on systems with no stations/inhabited planets/nav beacons, so that we know the Morse is not just system background noise.If we can't have someone who knows Morse that is unconnected from the game/system source of the recording listen to it and decode it for us, perhaps someone can go to those systems as well without a UA, target the sun and other planets, and see if there is any chittering or Morse in the background noise just to be sure as well, and record it if necessary? Also, do we have recordings of Nav Beacons and Station Chatter to compare against?

On another note, I think Wishblend deserves a medal for all her hard work on these experiments.
I've lost count of the number of tests she has successfully performed now without losing the UA.
As I sadly found out myself, it is all too easy to accidentally lose a UA.
Props also to Ratking15 for his efforts as guardian of the 2nd UA.
Can I propose that they are both hailed as 'Custodian' rank from this point forth?

This I agree with 100%

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Here is another idea - someone submit a player-written Galnet piece to Frontier along the lines of "UA mystery solved! Aliens use Morse code broadcast of system/station name!" and see if they publish it unaltered. If they do, that should confirm it. The ED equivalent of scientific peer review...

 

[EAGLE 5]

Here is another idea - someone submit a player-written Galnet piece to Frontier along the lines of "UA mystery solved! Aliens use Morse code broadcast of system/station name!" and see if they publish it unaltered. If they do, that should confirm it. The ED equivalent of scientific peer review...

Brilliant

 

[Wishblend]

That sounds exciting. Do you talk about the audio, or something the artifact is doing in different environments?

Something else.

 

[Dr.Evanzan]

Possibly - but scientific investigation is about process (the scientific method) and not predetermining your results, then "finding" that result in your data.

Well, my point is that the 'scientific method' is to posit theories and to then attempt to prove or disprove these with data - theorising what you expect to find is fine as long as the data subsequently endorses the theory.
To my mind, QorbeQ has already done what you proposed with the initial SEEGA PORT decoding.
Would it be nice if a further Morse expert were to inspect other recordings and come up with the results independently - yes, it would - but in the absence of finding another Morse expert willing to decode these without being aware of the game and so prejudicing their testimony, I think the current approach is not unreasonable.

 

[nilreb]

Ahh I said I'd give you a hand if you wanted. =p

Great job though!

I kept seeing Trinkets a few weeks back, didn't realise they might be important, I'll try to snag some.

Short reminder (Info is also in old thread):
Trinkets are also in the wild without the Elite/Founder mission (veyified today)

Spoiler

View attachment 49064

Two limpet shoots later:

Spoiler

View attachment 49065

But "Lady Fortuna" (as mentioned in market description) where not showing in my today UA hunt...
The low price may be an indicator (very low fine if scanned) for better stay/hold in cargo then sell.
Who knows?

 

[QorbeQ]

I fear that no matter what level of "proof" anyone provides for something like the chittering-morse, there will be folk who simply say "don't believe you".

I'm happy to take *clear* recordings of chittering whos identity is only known to the poster and either decode the morse myself or, if tricky (and it is tricky - I'm not saying it isn't - it's garbled) I can ask my colleague to try. But then I'm sure someone will accuse "collusion" or whatnot. So here are some links to do your own research because there's no way I can convince some people, simply because they won't trust anything they can't do themselves (perhaps a good perspective to maintain).


My recent post where my morse-expert colleague decoded the best part of Seega Port without external help - the only letters he missed were G-A - bearing mind that the morse isn't terribly clear in some places. It was his half-hour of effort which proved to me that it was there, which also taught me where I was going wrong.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=141038&page=629&p=2486721#post2486721


And here's where I pointed out that when I was trying to decode the morse myself I was doing precisely what is being suggested - trying to find something which isn't there. I couldn't find it - because it was the wrong thing! You can't make it sound like "TIMOCANI" in morse when it's actually spelling out "SEEGA PORT" no matter how hard you try.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=141038&p=2486797#post2486797


Here's the post linking the actual audio that I had my colleague listen to - I can't believe you can't hear Seega Port in it once you know what it says, especially the pause followed by P-O-R-T!

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=162998&page=3&p=2488432#post2488432


This is Wishblend's clearest recording yet, with my reply

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=162998&p=2497586&viewfull=1#post2497586

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=162998&p=2497826&viewfull=1#post2497826


And finally my "disbelief" post on the whole "debunk" thing that seems so common

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=162998&page=16&p=2500685#post2500685


Suffice to say, for myself (and those who can indeed hear the difference between the shorter and longer dits and dahs in the chittering) no more work is needed to "prove" the presence of morse - just answering the question of "why".

 

[QorbeQ]

For now, I'm running with a hunch (the sort of hunch that sent me all the way to the bovomit sector for, ultimately no reason), but if anyone comes across Trinkets of Hidden Fortune, let me know. Ships carrying them spawn in WSS, but damned if they aren't really rare

Oh. I found a ship loaded with trinkets the other day - only dropped two of them when I blasted his hatch open but that was fine with me as I've only got a 2-slot cargo rack in my Vulture

I did manage to accidentally slam into one and I think I discarded the other at a station because it had no black market and online research showed them to be essentially valueless to me (not being elite in anything yet).

If I come across them again I'll grab two if I can and let you have them.

 

[clavain]

Suffice to say, for myself (and those who can indeed hear the difference between the shorter and longer dits and dahs in the chittering) no more work is needed to "prove" the presence of morse - just answering the question of "why".

Well, as I said sometime back, my hearing is shot (too many large things going "bang" next to me over too many years) so the chances of me hearing anything in it is virtually nil. If you are confident in your results, my suggestion would be to go the Galnet route and write it up, and see if they are blessed by FD. That would put the question to rest once and for all.

As to relying on an independent expert, does it not seem rather extreme to have to do so (both in your case or my proposal) if the solution is supposedlly simple and clearly evident in-game to any player? If even your expert is admitting the difficulty of finding the Morse, and missing letters, is that not a sign that maybe it is because this is not the obvious and available-to-all solution? It is quite possible I am wrong, as I regularly am, and believe me, I would like this thing to be solved so we can all move on to whatever the next stage is, and see someone get some satisfaction for all the time and effort folks have put into this, but I just find it difficult to believe that the solution would be so exclusive and require an expert to find. Not to mention hearing-impaired prejudiced.

Edit: Plus how did all those other audio analysis guys with all their sophisticated software miss it over so many weeks?

 

[clavain]

Well, my point is that the 'scientific method' is to posit theories and to then attempt to prove or disprove these with data - theorising what you expect to find is fine as long as the data subsequently endorses the theory.
To my mind, QorbeQ has already done what you proposed with the initial SEEGA PORT decoding.
Would it be nice if a further Morse expert were to inspect other recordings and come up with the results independently - yes, it would - but in the absence of finding another Morse expert willing to decode these without being aware of the game and so prejudicing their testimony, I think the current approach is not unreasonable.

Right but you start with the data, and analyse it to get the results. You do not start with the result you want and then go looking for it in the data.